Small claim process issue?

[andydd]

I thought we'd established that as you applied as a company (not an individual) it wouldnt be automatically transfered to your local court. Im not sure what happens in this situation, maybe its held in defendants local court.

 

Dont know how you check your 'local' courtr, I guess its how near it is, Ive always known my local court so its been simple for me, plus Ive always applied as individual.

 

It certainly helps to be close and to be able to hand stuff in personally and ask the staffs advice.

[sam1888]

Yes but I am a single person company and it sounds like the judge could have switched it but thought this was my local court he said. But the CAB says it's not. It takes me about 40 mins to get in to London and approx £10 a trip. Unlike the Watford court, 15 mins and like you said easier to go in and chase or drop off documents, etc definitely. At present it is that court due to the Defendant I would imagine being central london.

[andydd]

Well..the issue of your local court is too late now. Im not sure what happens if you are not an individual, I believe a single person company is irrelevant, many Ltd copmpanies have only one director but pretty certain this does not class them as an individual as far as a court is concerned.

 

I believe though the court location is correct, if neither is an individual then it is by default the defendants local court, either can nominate another court, for example, one halfway if someone is in scotland and other is in south...might be worth checking this.

 

In any event..it is possible even in a small claim to claim travel expenses...but clearly you have to be the winning party.

 

Andy

[sam1888]

Didn't you say this turned in to a full hearing?

 

Can't set aside. Need to appeal.

 

 

Been to two CAB's local and london for advice, one says apply using application and £80 fee, the other says cant and have to do it as an appeal £115 fee, and still request a new hearing.

 

So all my papers prepared for the application I can't use, as it sounds like it's an appeal, and then if I do the other the £80 fee would be lost.

 

And can't do the appeal without first getting the judgement, which is not here yet. Catch22. Wow this process is extremely slow and difficult.

[andydd]

I'd have thought it would be appeal but you need to consider if its worth it, and your not throwing good money after bad.

 

Ive used LVT appeal process (deals with landlord issues) - I was unsuccesfull but dont know about court process, obviouslly its about appealing not the actual decision but whether the judge erred in law or in your case perhaps, the process was wrong....but would be worth finding out more as Im not that knowledable in that field.

 

As for time..I think you need to appeal within 14 days, and yes it maybe tight that you dont get actual judgment in time, Id pop into your local court and ask them, Ive found them quite helpful.

 

Andy

[sam1888]

Whats LVT? The london cab said 21 days for appeal, but only after the judgement is received. It is all sooooo exhausting. Even just to know what the correct process is is just so hard.

[andydd]

LVT = Leasehold Valuation Tribunal. I had to find out the appeal process for this, which is to Upper Tribunal (Lands Chamber) formally Lands Tribunal..!..yep..sure can be confusing, taking legal action is not to be taken lightly.

 

I'd double check CAB are correct..

 

In fact in my LVT case, they actually turned down appeal coz they claim it was received after 22 days....although would of turned it down anyway for other reasons, but I then used my right to appeal directly to the upper tribunal.

 

I believe county court process is similar, heres CPR > http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part52

 

Andy

[hmmh1978]

I still do not know what the general judgment was or what the outcome is.

 

You need to appeal and not set aside.

 

An appeal is fraught with danger and cost. As you did not ask for permission to appeal in that hearing, you will have to ask for permission and do this within 21 days. You may ask for an extension but it has to be for a good reason, such as a delay in obtaining the transcript, etc.

 

As this was small claims, you will need the following:

 

- Copy of order being appealed; and

- Draft order; and

- Evidence; and

- N164

 

I am not sure how much they owe but you have to have a point of when it is uneconomical to carry on. Going to court is just like any other commercial undertaking, it is based on a return. Look at this case with a clinical mindset and not an emotional one.

 

Good luck.

[citizenB]

Some information on Appealing a court decision.

BRW on Appealing.pdf

[sam1888]

1) On the link you posted re this process, you say about a transcription service, do I need this?

 

2) I went for a case management hearing, and have got somehow railroaded by a QC and it turned into a full hearing at some point and I lost. With no disclosure given, and no witnesses, despite paying for that process/application (£45).

 

3) I believe I have to appeal to set aside the judgement, and I have 21 days, this would be friday. I have been waiting for the written judgement but it has still not arrived.

 

4) I intend to drop in the papers and fee, just to cover it all off. Any help pointing in the right direction? Also do I need a lawyer, as the claim value is £5k, and I really cant go against a QC, clearly.

 

5) From your post are you saying if you appeal and it goes against you I could be hit with their costs?

 

6) In the hearing I did ask about how do I appeal, at no point did the Judge refer to requiring permission to appeal, only saying I suggest you get some proper legal advice. i.e. he didnt refuse or grant it. Note the judge did not say it was granted or refused.

 

- wow such a confusing process for a small claim!

[citizenB]

Sam, found your thread.. I will alert andyorch for you.

[sam1888]

:!:Update: heard back from the small claims court appeal,

judge hasn't understood the appeal it appears, in that there is nothing in his reply relating to the fact that I was railroaded and it was meant to be a case management hearing that has somehow transformed into a full hearing, and not moved to my local court which it should have.

 

It goes on to say how you can apply to set aside the decision, the judge was entitled to rule as he did, case dismissed.

Though he hasnt understood that I didnt have a fair change to put my case correctly.

 

Any suggestions what can be done?

I rang the court admin staff they said to write to the Court Manager and explain and ask them to look into it all.

As it was the court process and delays that meant I got no disclosure and no witnesses and it's not even in my local court either.

 

Is this the law of the UK and small claims process?

[andydd]

If it says you can apply to have it set aside then perhaps that is the route to follow ?

[sam1888]

The appeal was asking for the original thing to be set aside as it was not done properly at all.

What happens by setting aside the appeal in writing without a hearing?

 

You then have one with a hearing, and I am then at risk of the costs of a QC for half a day + more.

 

Would I have to pay another £115 to apply to have the appeal set aside?

 

This is a nonsense process, why did the judge just not do that at the appeal, he can surely clearly see things were not done correctly.

 

How do I apply to set it aside the appeal, any idea?

[andydd]

I dont think I can add anymore to my previous posts, it appears to me you should of protested that the hearing you were at was a case management hearing only, (I assume you have corresopondence from the court confirming this).

 

It may help as previoulsy requested for you to scan up ALL the docs and post them (redacted if required), as we are still workinmg in the dark here and there are no bovious answers to your questions.

 

To be honest, this is all beyond me and I cant follow whats going on.......sounds like you need advice to sort out this mess from a solicitor.

 

Andy

[sam1888]

Agreed I need a solicitor, though for a small claim you shouldn't. There isn't a lot to scan up, so not sure it's useful, basically the QC railroaded it, and the appeal has not addressed that. Crazy. I'm going to see someone tomorrow, hopefully they can point me in the right direction.

[andydd]

I hope so. Ive just returned from court (lease/freehold issues) and my freeholder has turned new leaf, theyve got new solicitor who was helpful and friendly and we agreed mediation.

 

Judge was please too as she is sick of us two.....Worth noting there have been cockups in this case, previoulsy Judge was unaware of LiP rate change from £9.25 to £18 and also my counterclaim was wrongly thrown out, a letter and chat at local court sorted this out.

 

Andy

[sam1888]

Well mine is still with the wrong court, the judge didnt transfer it to my local court.

This is just so exhausting.

 

Do you mean you have a solicitor who did that chat or how did you resolve the wrongly thrown out counterclaim?

I can't believe the amount of errors, etc.

The whole mess is also because they have not processed things in enough time despite numerous times I told them.

 

Yet this letter they sent me says to reply if any issue within 7 days, yet the 7 days was gone before I even got the letter.

Yet for them, they had months and still didnt process the documents.

[andydd]

Sorry I meant I meant I chatted with court staff, I didnt have solicitor, the error was I asked that the other sides claim against me be struck out, which they did but also in error struck out my counterclaim, I chatted with local court and wrote letter and it was re-instated.

 

Receiving letters that are out of time by the time you get them is common and Im surprsied the courts arnt aware of this, I think having time limits of 7 days is pointless if you rely on post, I personally always pop into local court but I see your problem in that it hasnt been transfered there.

 

Sounds like you need everything sorting out but not sure who you would approach, a big problem is that you didnt appear to object to the case management hearing that turned into a full hearing at the time.

 

Andy