council trying a fast one

[austin8]

Hi,

 

Me n mi girl move in last year! she purchased a house, we went on hols, and then move in when we got back.

 

Straight away we informed the council, of dates etc, and they gave us a discount while we was on holiday, Great.

 

We move in, realised she can not cook - (but that a new thread), and every thing else ok.

 

Paid all bill etc on time. One year on--

 

Today received a letter from council they done a land registry search, Is this legal?.

And decided to charge council tax for week we was on holiday! We did not ask for a discount - they just gave. And now they want the money, are they at fault and should they forfeit the bill? And is it legal?

[clairedcat]

Hi Austin.

Did council confirm in writing that you weren't liable for that week, either by letter or an entry on your bill ?

Also is, the year in question's council tax bill paid apart from the week you are disputing ?

I havn't heard of councils giving discount for holidays (I may be wrong)

It may be something to do with your moving dates, i.e were you officially living there etc, any other properties owned at the time, there purpose and what council tax you were paying on them.

Someone who knows the in's & out's of C/Tax and property will advise better, but at least your post has been bumped so anyone logging on this morning may be able to help more.

 

Claire x

[austin8]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply,

 

No the bill shows the date moved in, and all bills etc have been paid on time, .

 

As for the property, it was empty when purchased.

 

We was on holiday, so left moving in (including furniture) till we came back.

 

Before she was lodging with a friend, so was not liable for CT.

 

Is it legal/effical to do a land registry search, when all bills have been paid on time and in full.

 

Their letter was dated 1-6-12, and we recieved 6-6-12, just asking to pay council tax for a weeks over a year ago!

 

We gave both dates to the council the date purchased and the date we moved in, and let them calculate the bill, and we just paid.

[revshelp]

The Land Registry is open to any organisation or member of the public to view if they pay the fee, which is about £4. There only likely to have done a search if the previous owner/resident queried their bill.

 

As the owed you are responsible to pay the council tax form the day you purchased it, as it was unoccupied and unfurnished you should either had an exemption (or possibley a discount if its been empty for a long time).

[austin8]

Hi

 

Thanks for the reply, yes if you wasnt paying tax etc, they would do a land registry search, but can they do one just for fun? As the only information that they would of gained would be the mortgage provider. They already had the dates and the liable person. And all payment had been made on time. Would seem to me a council worker has been snooping, and is this unethical. And not in line with there policies

 

And they calculated the bill, we did not ask for any discount/exemtions. Can they just change there mind after a year and demand the payment?

[assisted blonde]

I dont think they would have dopne it just for fun but as previously stated any person or organisation can do a search and they dont have to have a reason, it is a public record.

[revshelp]

Because Council Tax is calculated on a daily basis they may have checked the land registry for the exact date of sale this is only likely to have happened if the person immediately before you challenged end date of their liability.

 

The wording of the law is rather vague, all it says is that the Council must bill you within a reasonable time. Given that they already had the purchase date and the date you moved in it would seem rather strange. If your certain of the facts its worth lodging an official complaint and then following the procedure through to the Local Governments Ombudsman, if necessary.

[austin8]

hi,

 

thanks for the reply,

 

No would not of thought they have done for fun, but a government bodies need a good reason to spend money and collect data? They had all the data and learnt nothing new.

 

Maybe is the previous owner, the house was empty by deceased and the family sold. Most likely the council didn't give any CT discount, and they should off. So they have applied for a rebate!

 

But they should of gave this reasoning to me. They have just said they are charging form the date she moved in, not to the date purchased. As they had this info, can they just change the bill for a year ago?

 

The other thing, they have asked for my name? Do I legally have to give. They never asked when we supplied all the data.

 

When we moved in she decided to pay the CT - so its in her name, we informed them on the form that 2+ adult would be there, so paying 100%, but they have asked for my details, as I still live at my previous home, haven't fully committed.

 

Are they gathering data fora compulsory purchase

[assisted blonde]

Why do you think they are gathering data for a compulsary purchase? i would have thought that if there were any hint of apossibility of compulasary purchase your girlfriend would have had a problem getting a mortgage? If you are speaking to the council about this matter then they would want your name etc as they can only deal with the person whose name the account is in (Data Protection)

[ss002d6252]

Land Registry data is commonly used where dates and owner details are in dispute and need verified , there's nothing sinister in it.

 

Maybe is the previous owner, the house was empty by deceased and the family sold. Most likely the council didn't give any CT discount, and they should off. So they have applied for a rebate!

The onus is on a party to claim a discount or exemption there is no automatic requirement for a council to go chasing people to check they are eligible other than publicising the available discounts and exemptions.

 

If any discount or exemption is awarded and then information is received to the contrary the council will remove/amend this discount and bill accordingly. This is quite legal. The date of the billing does not to appear to be an issue as they issued an initial bill and now that new information has come to light they have issued an adjusted demand as soon as they have reasonably been able to.

 

The other thing, they have asked for my name? Do I legally have to give. They never asked when we supplied all the data.

Yes you do - regulation 3 of the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992.

 

When we moved in she decided to pay the CT - so its in her name, we informed them on the form that 2+ adult would be there, so paying 100%, but they have asked for my details, as I still live at my previous home, haven't fully committed.

You need to speak to them about this but as a partner you can be jointly responsible (depending on whether you area joint owner and/or where you have been living).

[clairedcat]

If you told the council 2 adults were living there then they will want the other persons name as ss02d6252 has said. In regard to being her partner and living there you will be jointly responsible if you lived there since she moved in (unless you have some exemption i.e full time student status) If you say you lived somewhere else as well, the council are going to start digging, you can't live in two places at once, unfortunately it won't be enough to say you weren't fully committed.

 

Claire x

[austin8]

Hi all and thanks for the replies,

 

No I have not been been speaking to the council on her behalf. So why do they now want my name? Its been a year. No I'm not a joint owner, i own my own house, cannot sell it.

 

With regards to dates - there are no disputed dates, all they have found out that the purchaser and the date of purchase is the same person and date we suppled a year ago. We have not asked for any discount/exemtions. and pay all the bills on time.

 

So if 10 adults live in a house you have to give the coucil all there details? In this case she is the liable person.

 

Why can i not have a second home? is that a privalge reserved for MPs only, I pay all bills, no discounts are given and none are asked for.

 

As for changing the bill, for a year ago, No new information has come to light to my knowledge, they just changed the bill for the fun of it! We never asked/applied for an exemtion, we told them the date of purchase and the date we moved in, now for a strange reason they decided to send a bill, is it a case of just paying, then next week will be a letter that the council tax band is wrong so we will back date that to.

 

I guess we just have to pay, it would of been better easier if they bill as they intended! wnated!

[assisted blonde]

You can have a second home but you will need to be registered for Council Tax at both addresses.

[ss002d6252]

As for changing the bill, for a year ago, No new information has come to light to my knowledge, they just changed the bill for the fun of it!.

 

I think your just being paranoid now, they have better things to do than just amend accounts for fun.

[austin8]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies,

 

My girlfriend wrote to the council querying everything,

 

Asked if had to legally give the name of everybody over 18? The answer was no, so why they have asked for my name is still no clear! As she is the liable person.

 

Asked why they have changed the bill when no new information has come to light, dated etc. And gave copies off the forms and letter sent when moved in. Now they have changed the bill again! First was 100% exemption, then they changed to 0% exemption, Now they have recalculated to 50% exemption.

 

So they have reduced the amount by half. As the title of the thread "the council trying to pull a fast one"

 

She has now paid the amount under dispute. But clear the council is at fault here - Should they cancel the bill due to there mistake, Or are they allowed to do this?

[assisted blonde]

What bill do you think they should cancel?

[austin8]

The bill for the week on holiday, which was originally granted 100% exemption, then after 1 year removed the exemption and sent a bill out of the blue, and when queried reduced to 50%.

[DollyDagger]

I think it should be pointed out that there is no such thing as a council tax register and that the council tax department should only be keeping information on who is liable, and in some cases, on disregarded residents. Mere residence is nothing to do with the council if you pay the full rate.

 

 

If you told the council 2 adults were living there then they will want the other persons name as ss02d6252 has said. In regard to being her partner and living there you will be jointly responsible if you lived there since she moved in (unless you have some exemption i.e full time student status) If you say you lived somewhere else as well, the council are going to start digging, you can't live in two places at once, unfortunately it won't be enough to say you weren't fully committed.

 

Claire x