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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Hi,

 

I received an email from Three last night telling me that they are increasing my monthly price by 3.6% in accordance with inflation. I wasn't happy with Three at the best of times however, they said in the email that as this price increase goes hand in hand with inflation then no one can cancel their contract as it says in their terms and conditions. When I took the contract out, I was of the understanding that it was £30 a month however, it turns out that that's excluding VAT so I actually pay £35 but that was not ever mentioned to me nor does it make that clear when purchasing the phone. I've also had numerous problems with signal and internet connection. I am desperate to get out of this contract. I have another year left in July. Can anyone advise me as to what I can do? I have thought about just cancelling the direct debit however, I am aware that that would have an adverse affect on my credit rating but I can't think of any other way. Help would be appreciated.

 

Ross

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Personal thought, you should write them recorded delivery and email them and cancel, not ask to cancel, but cancel. Cancel your direct debit and then make sure there is no outstanding bill. The final bill I would pay with a cheque so you have a written record of payment.

 

You can sight the 'Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts' as the reason for doing this, and I'm betting you will get some demands for the remainder of the time but no summons as they know they have gone against the regulation in that you had no say in the writing up of this contract and other things.

 

I don't know what your CRA record is like, but if they put anything on there, then you can issue a summons to get it removed if they refuse to after your threaten them.

Edited by Conniff
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Thanks Coniff,

 

They have said previously that I would have to pay the amount that is left to run on the contract which would be more than £300 and I think that is unreasonable. So, by paying my last bill by cheque then you don't think they will make me pay back the remainder of my bill?

To my knowledge, my credit rating should be pretty good as I haven't ever defaulted on a payment and so the only thing that worries me is that they make it bad however, they would issue me a summons if I threatened them?

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I wouldn't pay them anything v_b. Contracts work 2 ways and that is why these consumer contract regulations were brought in. You saw and read a contract that said x. They accepted you on that x contract but now you are signed up, they decide to change the contract to xx and with no get out clause, they can dream on.

 

You will get default notice put on your file, but I could never see them have the guts to take this to court and try and get you to pay. They will just sell it on to some gutter company who will send you letters demanding double what they claim is owed. You just need the determination to carry it through.

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Hi V_b, I received a similar email fro Three as well and I responded by email too and told them that I am not prepared to accept that increase as what I singed

for is different from what they are asking now. I told them that unless they are going to maintain the original price plan, they should cancel the contract.

I haven't heard anything from them. But I think what they are doing is unfair.

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This stands out like a sore thumb and is I believe what the UTCCR is all about and make this contract unlawful:

 

"12.1

If you wish to make any variations to this agreement or rely on any other term, you must obtain our agreement to the variation on term in writing."

 

The same goes the other way around, so take no nonsense from them or their one sided contract.

 

Within one month of a materially detrimental variation to your agreement. (A cancellation fee will not be charged)"

 

I can't see anything about inflation not allowing cancellation.

Edited by Conniff
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It might be worth the £2 to do that, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

 

I will do that just to find out what is going on. At the moment I am away but will check on my return.

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I think Three is just trying their luck but we must resist it, otherwise they will walk all over us. They are testing the water.

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Conniff,

 

Here is the part in the Three terms and conditions which states that we are unable to cancel without a cancellation charge. They are saying they are increasing their prices due to inflation and to cover their business costs. Even with what they have put in the terms and conditions, would myself as a customer be able to cancel without a charge by citing the UTCCR rules and regulations? The thing I'm most worried about as I've said is being blacklisted as I think that I may require a loan in the coming years for a house and a car. I'm planning on doing what you said and writing to them to tell them that I will be cancelling the direct debit from the date that the price increase occurs.

 

4. Variations to your agreement or prices

4.1 We may vary any of the terms of your agreement,

including our Packages, on the following basis:

(a) any updated Packages and new terms will be

available on our website and on request to Three

Customer Services;

(b) we will let you know at least one month in advance

if we decide to:

(i) discontinue your Package; or

 

(ii) make any variations to your agreement which

are likely to be of material detriment to you; or

 

(iii) increase the fixed periodic charges for your

Package (if applicable) by an amount which is

more than the percentage increase in the Retail

Prices Index Figure (or any future equivalent) in

any twelve month period.

 

You can end the agreement for such variations as

explained in Section 10.

 

Subject to the above, you will not be able to end the

agreement if such variation or increase:

 

(i) is due to changes to the law, government

regulation or licence which affect us; or

 

(ii) relates solely to Additional Services; or

 

(iii) relates solely to Add-on(s) (if applicable to you).

In such circumstances you will not be able to end

your agreement but you will be able to cancel the

Add-on(s) by giving us 30 days’ written notice; and

© if you carry on using Three Services after the

variation commences, you will be deemed to have

accepted the variation.

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Have you checked whether the increase was greater than the RPI?

 

Does the law/regs allow even that?

 

Your charges will be made up of various elements: texts, calls, phone (unless it was free!!) and data. Have they given you a breakdown of how they arrive at their prices before & after the increase? If not, you should ask for that so that you can confirm the size of the increase.

 

Have their charges for extra minutes etc also risen, and if so by how much?

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Conniff,

 

Here is the part in the Three terms and conditions which states that we are unable to cancel without a cancellation charge. They are saying they are increasing their prices due to inflation and to cover their business costs. Even with what they have put in the terms and conditions, would myself as a customer be able to cancel without a charge by citing the UTCCR rules and regulations? The thing I'm most worried about as I've said is being blacklisted as I think that I may require a loan in the coming years for a house and a car. I'm planning on doing what you said and writing to them to tell them that I will be cancelling the direct debit from the date that the price increase occurs.

 

4. Variations to your agreement or prices

4.1 We may vary any of the terms of your agreement, - Where is the fairness in that.

including our Packages, on the following basis:

(a) any updated Packages and new terms will be

available on our website and on request to Three

Customer Services;

(b) we will let you know at least one month in advance

if we decide to:

(i) discontinue your Package; or

 

(ii) make any variations to your agreement which

are likely to be of material detriment to you; or

 

(iii) increase the fixed periodic charges for your

Package (if applicable) by an amount which is

more than the percentage increase in the Retail

Prices Index Figure (or any future equivalent) in

any twelve month period.

 

You can end the agreement for such variations as

explained in Section 10.

 

Subject to the above, you will not be able to end the

agreement if such variation or increase:

 

(i) is due to changes to the law, government

regulation or licence which affect us; or

 

(ii) relates solely to Additional Services; or

 

(iii) relates solely to Add-on(s) (if applicable to you).

In such circumstances you will not be able to end

your agreement but you will be able to cancel the

Add-on(s) by giving us 30 days’ written notice; and

© if you carry on using Three Services after the

variation commences, you will be deemed to have

accepted the variation.

 

It's all we we we, that is unfair, where was the consultation ? It's not good saying you had the choice of in or out, contracts don't work that way.

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please i just call this company and i went mad with them they said that they have the right to do it, please help me my credit history is not good.

 

Don't call them on the telephone, only write to them, did you record the call you just made - if not, you have no record at all of what was said and they will say either they didn't record it or they can't find that bit.

 

It is 'not' up to them to decide what is detrimental to you. Now write and tell them the contract is ended from xx date as an amendment to it is detrimental to me and your T&C claiming you can do such a thing unitlateraly is an unfair term in accordance with the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

They have already made their contract out in such a manner that they don't come under the Consumer Credit Act so reducing your rights.

Edited by Conniff
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Conniff,

 

Here is the part in the Three terms and conditions which states that we are unable to cancel without a cancellation charge. They are saying they are increasing their prices due to inflation and to cover their business costs. Even with what they have put in the terms and conditions, would myself as a customer be able to cancel without a charge by citing the UTCCR rules and regulations? The thing I'm most worried about as I've said is being blacklisted as I think that I may require a loan in the coming years for a house and a car. I'm planning on doing what you said and writing to them to tell them that I will be cancelling the direct debit from the date that the price increase occurs.

 

4. Variations to your agreement or prices

4.1 We may vary any of the terms of your agreement,

including our Packages, on the following basis:

(a) any updated Packages and new terms will be

available on our website and on request to Three

Customer Services;

(b) we will let you know at least one month in advance

if we decide to:

(i) discontinue your Package; or

 

(ii) make any variations to your agreement which

are likely to be of material detriment to you; or

 

(iii) increase the fixed periodic charges for your

Package (if applicable) by an amount which is

more than the percentage increase in the Retail

Prices Index Figure (or any future equivalent) in

any twelve month period.

 

You can end the agreement for such variations as

explained in Section 10.

 

Subject to the above, you will not be able to end the

agreement if such variation or increase:

 

(i) is due to changes to the law, government

regulation or licence which affect us; or

 

(ii) relates solely to Additional Services; or

 

(iii) relates solely to Add-on(s) (if applicable to you).

In such circumstances you will not be able to end

your agreement but you will be able to cancel the

Add-on(s) by giving us 30 days’ written notice; and

© if you carry on using Three Services after the

variation commences, you will be deemed to have

accepted the variation.

 

Do not cancel direct debits mid contract - there is no benefit in doing this as you rightly state your credit rating would be harmed by this action.

 

Three have insisted to me too that this is the section (4.1(b) ) that prevents me from cancelling my contract under section 10.1(d) However, if it is read correctly, it says no such thing.

Section 4, as I read it, allows three to do what ever they please to change your contract - they could raise prices by 1000% should they choose. Section 4.1(b) relates solely to their requirement to notify you about changes and has no effect whatever on section 10.1(d) They kindly point out three cirumstances in which you may cancel the contract under section 10.1(d), but this list can not be taken as exhaustive as if it were intended to be so, the condition would need to specifically state this.

The only limiting factor for being able to invoke section 10.1(d) is whether or not the change is of "detriment" (in the case of iPhone customers) or "material detriment" to other customers. If you can prove either of these, then section 10.1(d) applies - RPI is nothing more than a red-herring in this instance and has no relevance to section 10.1(d).

 

Three are attempting to make RPI significant by insisting that because the price increase is at RPI or below it is not a detriment. Three do not have the legal right to determine this - only a court can do so. OFCOM, the regulator has indicated that RPI increases are not of 'material detriment' but this statement was made in relation to a different company and a different contract (a significantly better worded contract by all accounts).

 

Three have clearly made a total pig's ear of this price increase and are now desperately trying to justify the fact they are not willing to abide by their own contract.

 

Getting Three to take their customers seriously is going to be difficult but not, I believe, impossible -

1) Word of mouth is a very powerful marketing tool - one happy customer will perhaps mention it to a couple of friends but a disgruntled customer will mention their bad experience to many, many more. I personally am now almost evangelical about telling anyone who's willing to listen how bad Three have treated me and how they would be crazy to sign a contract with Three. If enough people do this, Three will have difficulty in getting the new custom it so obviously craves.

2) Check your insurance policies for 'Legal Expenses Insurance' You may have insurance in place to pay for Legal action in consumer disputes such as this. If this is the case it might be an idea to investigate using the courts to compell Three to abide by their own contract. The more successfull small claims that are made, the more likely Three will cave in.

3) Write to their parent company in Hong Kong, pointing out how unhappy you are to be treated in such a dishonorable way. This may have no effect what ever, but it will raise awareness that the British public are not happy to be given the run around.

4) Terminate your contract as soon as legally possible. Do not cancel direct debits mid contract - this is not going to help you and will in all likelyhood not harm Three all that much either as they will simply sell the debt to a collection agency.

 

Whether or not Three will notice or even care that a whole bunch of previously happy customers are no longer willing to do business with them is open to question, but it's worth a try.

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Telling Three you are canceling the contract as they have broken it, then canceling the DD is a dangerous game, but I believe it would be successful. If they report this on your credit file, you could then take them to court for £7000 (although £5000 would be smarter to keep it in small claims court) for "damages without proof" including removal of adverse information from your credit file (a-la Durkin vrs DSG + HFC http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/A187_04.html)

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Just read the t&cs - they will give a months notice if they are going to increase the monthly payment by MORE than the RPI - presumably they wouldn't bother letting you know if they put it up by less??

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just wondering if anyone has heard from Three regarding complaint or objection to the increase. I wrote to them but they have ignored it.

They never replied. Could anyone have had reply from them?

 

Cheers

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If you didn't send by recorded delivery, they can deny ever receiving it, so send it again if it went by ordinary post. If not, go to the Royal Mail site and put the ticket number in and see who signed for it and then send an official complaint.

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Thanks Conniff,

 

At the time, I was out of the country and I could only reach them by email. I replied their email but I guess I should print and post it recorded now.

I was hoping that someone might have heard from them by now since it seems many people are affected.

 

Thanks

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  • 1 month later...

Guys,Sorry for the delay. I called them to complain about the increase and how they don't state tha the price on the website or over the phone doesn't include vat and that they don't tell you that either oly i the welcome letter. at first they said they couldn't do anything about it but i said to them that i wasn't accepting it and was going to take legal action if they didn't reduce my contract to what i thought it was supposed to be - £29 not £35 with VAT added. After 3 weeks and 3 different phone calls, I was told that my contract would be £29 for the remainder of the contract (1 year) and that I was being back dated £72 worth of credit as a result of them charging me £5 vat without knowing it. BE PERSISTENT GUYS and don't take their crap.

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