Jump to content


Being pushed out of my job?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3400 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I was transferred to an outsourcing company 15 months ago and I’ve had nothing but problems since. I am a cleaner.

 

First my manager tried to take away hours (Sundays) replacing me without letting me know and has continued to try and take them away ever since. The problem for me being that the hours in question were agreed on, verbally, before the transfer. So I posted a thread on this forum, and followed the advice. I asked my OLD manager (from before the transfer) to sign something to state the contract took place, he never did, but did have a word with them on the side which at the time worked.

 

Since then, I have been accused by my manager of not doing my job during these hours and not coming in on these days. I am continuously being told I can’t be trusted because of poor attendance on these days. I have taken a lot of time off in the past but all because of genuinely unavoidable reasons. They reassure me its 22 days sick leave taken in the last year but I think it’s more like 15 (estimate). I’m sure they are adding days that I actually booked as holiday because I haven’t taken any Sundays off without booking them. But I can’t prove that.

 

At the beginning of February my mother’s health deteriorated I informed work I wouldn’t be in for at least a week. Sadly, a week later my mother passed away so I took a further 6 weeks off. I returned to work for a few days when some complications arose (in conjunction with my mother’s death) and I required another couple of days off which I informed them of.

 

When I returned fully I was sent an email from head office telling me I had a disciplinary hearing because of erratic attendance, after I pointed out that I was entitled to the time off, that changed to inadequate communication. I told them that I could prove that I had contacted my supervisor (namely texts sent and received) and tried & failed to contact my manager (phone always off) but was told that the hearing would be going ahead all the same. (I think they thought I was bluffing – at this point they didn’t know what the proof was). I pointed out that they should talk to my supervisor as he could vouch for me this seems to have been ignored and I was reminded it was procedure. The letter also stated that I would not be doing Sundays again until my attendance improves.

My claim was that my manager knew of my comms but failed to pass this on to head office. I asked that my managers manager (sorry don’t know his title) hold the hearing - that was a no. So I asked that he at least be there - again no. I asked someone else from head office be there, yet again - no.

The hearing was held by my manager and he brought along another manager who has little to do with me.

The usual accusations were thrown at me but the main attack was my lack of comms. I defended myself and was then told that all I had was my word. I said the same of them and then showed my proof. They quickly shifted the blame on to my supervisor.

I received a letter a few days later explaining that “Having taken all the facts into account the company has decided not to take any further action against you on this occasion” I thought I had proved I wasn’t guilty. The letter continued “I trust we can now move forward and expect you to continue with your improved attendance and communication”. I cant see what ive actually done wrong other than voice my opinions.

 

Now my manager is really going for it. He comes in to check my work every day picking up on the smallest thing I miss out or neglect, he tells me not to concentrate on some things too much one day and then has a dig because they have been neglected the next. In the two and a half years I’ve been there I haven’t had any problems raised but suddenly now my work’s unacceptable. Extra work added and schedules changed are making my job harder and there’s no reason for it.

 

I’ve also had my Sundays stopped again as an outcome of my “poor attendance”.

 

I’ve emailed my managers manager with my complaints about him in the past but the usual reply has been its there procedure and it’s down to my manager. He no longer replies to my emails and I now have to go through someone else in his office to communicate with him(HR). I am constantly having their terms & conditions shoved in my face and being told its procedure but don’t they have to go by my original T&Cs I had (under Tupe)?

 

I’ve now emailed my OLD manager explaining my situation and to ask if he could spare one of his staff to check that I’ve done my work when they arrived in the morning. His reply was that he thought it would be inappropriate to get directly involved and proceeded to tell me how vital it is to communicate any absences I may have. That tells me that he too is under the impression I never contacted them.

There are many other little things that have happened that I see as unfair but don’t know if they come under tupe or if they have any relevance, but too many to remember and list here. It seems anything they can think of to make it more intolerable for me is implemented.

 

I have no witnesses to the fact that I actually do any work or that they act this way (just managment) as I am put upstairs out the way of the rest of the team and I don’t exactly get to "mix" with them. My job is kind of based on the fact that it’s trusted I do my work and if there’s nothing for me to do I find the supervisor and get reappointed (which rarely happens).

 

I asked my manager to move me somewhere else if he isn’t happy, he wont. So I’ve asked for him to write me a day by day list of jobs he wants me to do. He said he would but a week later – nothing. Everything he says about me seems to be believed by everyone He acts and speaks to me one way and then completely changes when other people are around. It’s a bit strange.

 

All I know is I wouldn’t have been treated this way by the company that I originally applied to, for the job but isn’t this what tupe is supposed to protect me against? Who do I go to now I’ve run out of managers to go to?

 

As i mentioned earlier emails I’ve sent in the past to head office, touching on the subject of my objection to this treatment have been ignored. Could this be classed as a grievance they haven’t followed up on? Or do I need to write something more official? Would it be worth it or could it bring more problems for me?

 

I want to keep my job I work hard and cant see how this new company has contributed (other than denting morale) in any way. So any advice would help. Thank you. Jaspa.

Edited by iamjaspa
Change of title
Link to post
Share on other sites

Jasper keep a diary of all these events, ensure you keep a copy of all texts and emails sent. Then if they are ignoring your complaints then you may be able to put in a grievance. I'm sure if you post you grievance on here, Cagger will advise you from there. Dont feel you are being disloyal if you put in a greivance, and if following you putting in a Grievance your relaitionship with your manager deterioates further again keep evidence and put in another grievance, as long as you keep quiet you will have less chance of proving harrasment.

 

This is only my opinion and the Caggers on here will advise you more when they see the content of your grievance. Good Luck with it all as poor management appears to be rife throughout these threads. stay polite when dealing with your manager even if your seething inside.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For one thing, when the disciplinary happened, it sounds like the manager broke several legal parts of performing an interview. This alone can render the entire disciplinary interview and any resulting action void.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the OP's info is correct ( and we have no reason to believe otherwise) the Disciplinary procedure was not done correctly.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Person who is being disciplined should have been given a formal letter notifying them to attend a meeting along with all relevant details AT LEAST 24 hours before the meeting commences. This is usually to the hour. In extreme serious cases, the defendant should be suspended with/without pay at a senior managers discretion, to allow impartial investigation into the alleged incident and for evidence to be collated from all relevant parties. This information should ideally be copied to the defendant. Although there is no set law for doing so, it makes good sense and procedure to allow the defendant to form a defence against any allegations.

 

The person who is being disciplined can invite a witness of his/her choosing. The ONLY person who can say no to this witness attending the meeting is the witness him/herself. If this person is unavailable for whatever reason, then the meeting can be postponed for 5 days, after which the manager holding the meeting can designate a person of their choosing to act as an impartial witness to the meeting ( the person must not have any connection with said manager, so cannot be swayed by opinion).

 

The meeting MUST be conducted in the first instance by the immediate supervisor, or in the case of an intended written/final warning, the defendants senior manager. In the two latter cases, the manager who had reason to call the meeting cannot run said meeting him/herself. It MUST be performed by a senior manager who has no connection with any incident. ( The original manager can still appear to put their case forward).

 

If at any time of the disciplinary procedure, a step is missed or not followed to code, then the entire procedure can be cancelled and the defendants record cleared.

 

There is a lot more, but from myself almost 10 years of experience defending people in disciplinary meetings, and having around a 95% success rate of successful negotiation in a company of around 750 employees, the above is what the OP's management failed on. And theyre just the very simple things off the top of my head.

Edited by renegadeimp

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. Some extra clarity would go a long way.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

POINT 1----informal fact finding, no rep or collegue needed at this stage at interview

POINT 2 ---if needed, progression to a disciplinary hearing

POINT 3---- minimum of 48 hours notice needs to be given in writing dictating charges and if dismissal is appropriate

POINT 4--- the worker then has the right to be accompanied at the disciplinary meeting, all paperwork is released to the rep/collegue 48 hours minimum before interview

POINT 5-- suspension with or without pay is subject to the employees contract of employment, not the discresion of a manager

POINT 6---any breach in the ACAS code of practice on disciplinary matters resulting in the dismissal of the employee, the dismissal would then be deemed automatically unfair at an employment tribunal. ACAS sets the minimum standards needed

 

QUOTE

 

If at any time of the disciplinary procedure, a step is missed or not followed to code, then the entire procedure can be cancelled and the defendants record cleared.

 

 

NOT REALY, but i would bring any breach of procedure up at an appeal hearing following dismissal

 

their is nothing stopping an employeer from bringing fresh allegations as long as the correct procedure has been followed by the employeer

Link to post
Share on other sites

POINT 1----informal fact finding, no rep or collegue needed at this stage at interview

POINT 2 ---if needed, progression to a disciplinary hearing

POINT 3---- minimum of 48 hours notice needs to be given in writing dictating charges and if dismissal is appropriate

POINT 4--- the worker then has the right to be accompanied at the disciplinary meeting, all paperwork is released to the rep/collegue 48 hours minimum before interview

POINT 5-- suspension with or without pay is subject to the employees contract of employment, not the discresion of a manager

POINT 6---any breach in the ACAS code of practice on disciplinary matters resulting in the dismissal of the employee, the dismissal would then be deemed automatically unfair at an employment tribunal. ACAS sets the minimum standards needed

 

QUOTE

 

If at any time of the disciplinary procedure, a step is missed or not followed to code, then the entire procedure can be cancelled and the defendants record cleared.

 

 

NOT REALY, but i would bring any breach of procedure up at an appeal hearing following dismissal

 

their is nothing stopping an employeer from bringing fresh allegations as long as the correct procedure has been followed by the employeer

 

I was just stating my experience. And that experience has been that if an employer fails to follow company procedure or procedure laid out in law, then the entire disciplinary can be deemed void, unless of course it is of a very serious nature.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just stating my experience. And that experience has been that if an employer fails to follow company procedure or procedure laid out in law, then the entire disciplinary can be deemed void, unless of course it is of a very serious nature.

 

yes but why tip the employer off, the emeployeer will just withdraw any action and reinstigate it following the employer will then just follow the correct procedure that you have kindly pointed out to them. i would only bring up their lack of procedure in an appeal from dismissal where any break in procedure would make the dismissal automatically unfair

 

if you can show any break in procedure would halt any disciplinary claim and make it void as to the ACAS code of practice then i am all ears

Edited by squaddie
Link to post
Share on other sites

While the disciplinary or dismissal issue is being looked into, your employer may be able to suspend you. You should be told why you are being suspended.

If your employment contract allows you to be suspended without pay, your employer can do so, so long as they are acting reasonably. If your employment contract does not say that your employer can do this, your employer may still be able to suspend you, but with pay. To make it clear that this isn't a punishment, the suspension will be on full pay in most cases.

 

but the judgement in the recent case of Kent County Council v Knowles suggests probably not, at least if the employee remains theoretically available for work during the period of suspension

 

he was ready and able to work as required Burns v Santander [2011] IRLR 639 distinguished

Edited by ims21
edgbaston quote removed
Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...