stupid i know!

[janb]

Please before you even start to read please dont judge me! Im not a criminal and would neva intend to harm anybodies life but i would just like to know if anybody has been as daft as me?

Big gulp ....here goes....

I have just been sentanced for being drunk in charge and got a 12 month ban fined £620 and 150 hrs! Its now going to crown court as my solicitor has appealed..

It all happened afta a domestic at home...a big one, so silly me left the house sober and just needed to get away...i parked up in a layby and then got totally wasted just wishing all the problems would go away! I had no intention of driving and had even taken my footwear off and the keys out of the ignition...the car was going to be my bed for the night! Dont know what i was doing but i was half in the car and half out of it when the police arrested me...can only think that i must have needed the loo!

In my eyes what i do to myself is my business....i lost a good career due to redundancy and the rest just snowballed! Never been in court before or had any convictions for motoring offences....i so scared about going to crown court! Could my sentance be increased if i lose my appeal?

Your all probably going to think im stupid but i need to get it off my chest!

Everybody makes mistakes:-(

Jan

[rebel11]

Hi jan

 

Nobody's going to judge you.

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available. So what your saying is that you stopped the car, got wasted, when the police arrived.

[janb]

Hi Rebel

 

Yep just parked up 400 yrds from home then got wasted..if i had been sober enough i would have walked home eventually but got arrested first!

[Aretnap]

Are you appealing against the conviction or the sentence?

 

If you appeal the conviction you'd have to rely on the statutory defence and persuade the court that there had been no probability of you driving until you were back under the limit. Unfortunately I fear you'd struggle with that one if you were found completely insensible in a layby - you may not have intended to drive, but can you say hand on heart that there's no chance that you'd have woken up cold and pi$$ed in the middle of the night and decided to move the car? In fact, if you were completely wasted you would probably have still been over the limit until lunchtime (at least) the next day - were you going to stay in the car until the afternoon? And will a judge believe you if you do? TBH, without wanting to pass judgement, they may have had their doubts about whether you really did wait until you'd driven off before you started drinking (where did the alcohol come from, or did you just happen to have a load of booze in the car?). If they did, that might go some way to explaining the severity of the sentence.

 

Looking at the sentencing guidelines (page 126) the sentence looks to be close to the top of the range for drunk in charge? How drunk were you? If you blew over 120 than it's within the guidelines, but 120 is pretty drunk - most people would have difficulty walking and talking at that level. Still if you were found slumped half in and half out of the car...

 

An appeal to the Crown Court means a completely new hearing from scratch, so a higher sentence is theoretically possible, though as yours was close to the top of the sentencing guidelines I'd have thought a harsher sentence was unlikely in practice. You would however be looking at several hundred pounds more in costs if the appeal was unsuccessful.

[janb]

Hi im appealing against the sentence... no stash of booze in the car i packed my bags and took a bottle of vodka from home and downed it in a short period of time! My hubby would have been passing at 5am in the morning so i knew he would have stopped upon seeing the car. TBH in one sense the police turning up was maybe a good thing as i could have been raped or mugged or even worse! The reading was over 120! I know of someone who was 3.5 times over and actually driving...they got a 12 mth ban and 50hrs and no fine. This is all just so alien to me! A silly row has landed me in big trouble...........

Many thanks for your reply

[clairedcat]

Hi,

I don't need to know the in's and out's of your marriage, and Aretnap has advised on legal stuff. I know you left house sober, so didn't actually drink and drive. It seems to me you needed to get out of that situation had nowhere to go, and finding yourself having to sleep in car had a lot to drink in response to your home life situation. Granted it might have been stupid, but looks to me like mitigating circumstances.

Im not suggesting anything in regard to your hubby and everyone argues, but at the time (not saying that is case now) you had genuine reasons for your mistake, but how can the court predict how that arguement would have turned out (again no disrespect to Mr janb)

Punishment you got was to harsh IMO.

Someone might know if letter to appeal court may help, you need to fight this, you have lost so much over this.

Really annoys me that people like you get this treatment and serious criminals get off scot free.

 

Claire x

[janb]

thanks Claire x

Thats my opinion too! It was the biggest row in 19 yrs of marriage but he has stood by me in all this, still my hubby and i love him 2 bits. This justice system is wrong! Never had to sit with so many low lifes whilst waiting to go in court, swearing and boosting about robbing people whilst they are asleep in bed but they just seem to get a slap on the wrist? My 1st offence and they have thrown the book at me:sad: Got to take the chance and go to Crown dont think it can get any worse...fingers crossed....oh and the toes!

[clairedcat]

Let us know how you get on, I really do wish you all the best.

As you know, I mean no disrespect to Mr. janb. What worries me is the fact that some women could do exactly what you did, but to escape a violent and potentially life threatening situation, and the courts react like this. Infact the people you came across waiting to go to court are probably the one's that do that sort of thing. I had a quick look at the guidelines mentioned in Aretnap's post and it's pretty grim reading. I was under the impression magistrates were lay people. These guidelines will sway them. Im not saying that a court is the place to feel sorry for people, but surely common sense should prevail.

I would appeal in your postion, it sounds to me like you've been seen as another case for the magistates to sort out.

Like I said, maybe a heart felt letter in regard to the circumstances, the impact on your life and how this is affecting your mental and physical health might help. Someone on here will advise better than me, as I don't know if it's allowed. But anything is worth a try.

 

Claire x

[janb]

thank you Claire for your kind words, my solicitor has put the appeal in already...just dreading the whole crown court thing now but hey! Just feel so ashamed and big dint in my pride .....really cant get my head round the fact i was so stupid but then i suppose most people have been there and made mistakes at some point in their life x Things just pile up and everybody has a breaking point but it does not make them a bad person x

[janb]

arrrrgggg yikess ! one sad silly lady here! letter from solicitor today appeal should be listed in the next two or three weeks......god im so worried wot if the judge goes with cps an i end up with a custodial????????????? proper scared

[janb]

good morning all

 

Update well it went to court and i was found guilty 1 yrs ban 150 cs hrs and £600 fine.....took it to crown to appeal but lost and strung with another £400 in costs......i appreciate what i did was wrong but just need to ask a question....at the time i was on JSA and allowed to pay the fine at £5 a week ....now my benefit has ceased and i have no income whatsoever so in theory the are fining my husband.... does anybody think i have the right to ask the question of how i am supposed to get to unpaid work with no licence and no income and also is it fair to expect me to pay my fine from my husbands income????

 

Many thanks you lovely people

 

Janb

[sailor sam]

I've only just come across this thread which is a shame because I do know a bit about this which is a pity as I may have been able to save you some money.

 

My first thought is (and I know it's easy to say after the event) is that you were advised badly by your solicitor. Drunk in charge of a motor vehicle is pretty much a cut and dried offence and there arn't many (if any) loop holes. For example, I know of a guy who left a pub where he had been working, walked to his car which had no battery in it and was parked on private property, got in a sleeping bag to bed down for the night and still got done!!

 

You don't even have to be in the car either... you can be done if your car is parked outside your house and you go out to it to get something out of it with the keys in your possession. It's amazing what you can learn from a drink-drive rehab course.

 

The answer to your current question is simply 'no' i'm afraid, you will be wasting your time as the court consider they have given you a penalty to which you have to take the consequences. What your solicitor may of asked at the original hearing is could they offer you the opportunity to go on the rehab course which would of knocked 3 months off your ban. But looking at your reading, that may of ditched that opportunity as i believe it is offered when the reading is under twice over the limit.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[janb]

thanks sailor sam...does not make good reading just does not seem fair.....especially when you get people how commit real crimes and re-offend time after time and get a slap on the wrist!! But thanks for sharing your advice

 

Janb x

[sailor sam]

thanks sailor sam...does not make good reading just does not seem fair.....especially when you get people how commit real crimes and re-offend time after time and get a slap on the wrist!! But thanks for sharing your advice

 

Janb x

 

Couldn't agree with you more but unfortunately that's the way it is. The motorist is an easy target!

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[janb]

i know easy revenue for the police that and speeding....going off the topic now but i hate our justice system look at poor Tony Nicklinson courts wont let him die with dignity....stinks.....sorry not in good humour lol x

[Aretnap]

I suspect the money was in costs rather than a fine - fines aren't usualy iposed at the same time as a community penalty. £620 is the standard amount the CPS ask for following a not guilty plea at a magistrates court, though if you were on low income I'm mildly surprised that they got the full amount unless it was a drawn out trial with witnesses called. Not that it makes a great deal of difference in practice.

 

You can contact the court, explain your new circumstances and ask them to vary the amount and/or the rate of payment, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope. £5/week is already about the lowest they'll go in terms of a payment schedule, and as for your income vs your husband's income the guidelines say this

 

22. Where the household of which the offender is a part has more than one source of income, the fine should normally be based on the income of the offender alone.

23. However, where the offender’s part of the income is very small (or the offender is wholly dependent on the income of another), the court may have regard to the extent of the household’s income and assets which will be available to meet any fine imposed on the offender.

 

Thinking about it, it couldn't really be any other way. There are plenty of offences for which a fine is the only possible penalty, and if a fine could not be imposed on a dependant spouse with no income of his/her own then those people would in effect be able to commit minor offences with no punishment possible at all.

[Aretnap]

For example, I know of a guy who left a pub where he had been working, walked to his car which had no battery in it and was parked on private property, got in a sleeping bag to bed down for the night and still got done!!

If he was convicted in those circumstances he can't have had a very good lawyer. There is a defence available if you can show that there was no likelihood of you driving the vehicle while you were over the limit, and if the car was not capable of being started...

[janb]

Thanks Aretnap

 

 

The initial trial lasted from 9.30 till lunch with only 2 witnesses one being my hubby and the other the police and they fined me the full £620 with the 150 hrs...and then it went to appeal with the same witnesses and no reduction in fine or hrs and then £420 in costs.....really dont know who you know so much but im guessing you must be in the law business....guess at the end of the day im flogging a dead horse..............

 

Thanks

Janb

[janb]

Thanks Aretnap

 

 

The initial trial lasted from 9.30 till lunch with only 2 witnesses one being my hubby and the other the police and they fined me the full £620 with the 150 hrs...and then it went to appeal with the same witnesses and no reduction in fine or hrs and then £420 in costs.....really dont know who you know so much but im guessing you must be in the law business....guess at the end of the day im flogging a dead horse..............

 

Thanks

Janb

[janb]

didnt mean to post twice sorry

[sailor sam]

If he was convicted in those circumstances he can't have had a very good lawyer. There is a defence available if you can show that there was no likelihood of you driving the vehicle while you were over the limit, and if the car was not capable of being started...

 

Well I must admit that's exactly what I said at the course but the apparent argument is that it was just missing a battery which he could of fitted quite easily. If had been missing the engine or gearbox, then that would be different. I think that unless you have been on one of these courses, you are at a dis-advantage because there isn't enough detailed publicity other that the obvious issues involving drink-driving. I doubt many people know that they can be done for just being with the car and not necessarily in it if you have the keys in your possession. How many times do you see that in any TV campaign?

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[sailor sam]

Thanks Aretnap

 

 

The initial trial lasted from 9.30 till lunch with only 2 witnesses one being my hubby and the other the police and they fined me the full £620 with the 150 hrs...and then it went to appeal with the same witnesses and no reduction in fine or hrs and then £420 in costs.....really dont know who you know so much but im guessing you must be in the law business....guess at the end of the day im flogging a dead horse..............

 

Thanks

Janb

 

Well as I mentioned previously, I don't think your solicitor did you any favours.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Aretnap]

Well I must admit that's exactly what I said at the course but the apparent argument is that it was just missing a battery which he could of fitted quite easily. If had been missing the engine or gearbox, then that would be different.

Hmmm... and did he have a battery in the car, or was the argument that he might have walked to Halfords at 3am and got one? There's no accounting for what a particular bench of magistrates can decide, but I reckon he was unlucky. Certainly people have been acquitted of drunk in charge on what sound like much flimsier arguments (linky)

 

J was found by Thames Valley police to be slumped in the driver's seat of his vehicle outside his home in Oxford in a near unconscious state with the key in the ignition and turned so that the engine was engaged. J was arrested and taken to St Aldates police station in Oxford where he was required to provide two specimens of breath using a Lion Intoximeter breath testing device. He provided two specimens of breath and was found to be nearly five times over the legal drink drive limit. He was charged with the offence of being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle and was bailed to attend Oxford Magistrates Court.

He accepted the breath alcohol reading and that he was in charge of the motor vehicle. He pleaded not guilty to the charge on the basis that there was no likelihood of him driving whilst he was over the legal drink drive limit. This is known as the 'statutory defence' to a charge of being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle. J contended that there was no need for him to drive for the rest of the day and he was clear in his mind that he would not have done so having drunk alcohol. An expert was instructed to report as to when exactly he might have been back below the legal drink drive limit.

The case was listed for trial at Oxford Magistrates Court on 8 November where he was represented by Tim. The court was concerned with a single issue; whether or not it be satisfied that it was more likely than not that J would not have driven whilst he was over the legal drink drive limit.

J gave evidence about his lifestyle, how he spends his days, where he was going and what he was doing at the time of his arrest and crucially what he would have done for the rest of the day had he not been spoken to and subsequently arrested by the police.

After hearing a closing speech from Tim, the magistrates found J not guilty of the charge, dismissed the case against him and ordered that his costs be paid from Central Funds. The client left the court with his licence free of endorsements and his good name in tact. Needless to say he was delighted with the outcome.

[janb]

threw the book at me then...................omg