used car bought from garage problems

[leeroy2009]

think i may need help on this issue, so i will begin.

 

needed a differnt car, bought one from a local used car lot.

 

did the deal on one car, on my way out i changed my mind a went for a new higher spec and more expensive car 24th may, as it was late by this time i did not get to test drive the car, we made arrangments (well i told them) that id be back at 12 next day (25th) to test drive the car.

 

on the 25th i arrived at the garage to test drive the car, on arrival i was informed the car was off site getting mot and any work done completed before i could buy the car, i was told aslong as car went through its mot it would be ready for collection at some point that day.

 

later that day i went to pick the car up, stupidly paid for it with out test driving it, but it had just been checked at garage and had a mot done and i thought that it should be ok, plus i had a 30 day warranty with the garage.

 

here we go:

 

1. driving car home i noticed the steering was off, when the steering wheel is straight, the car veers off to the left, to drive the car staright you need to hole the steering wheel at arround the 2clock position tto the right.

 

been driving for many years and have come accros this before, its either different tread pattern tyres on the front or the tracking / wheel alignment is off, checked the tyres and they are same tread pattern so not the tyres (all at correct pressures to)

 

2. i checked the mot form, the test sheet for the brakes is not supplied, and there are 4 addvisorys, 3 are 3 tyres nera to limit, 4th addvisory 1 tyre on limit in capital letters.

 

3. i emailed garage last night and no response, (they are open saturdays) pointing out that there was a fult on the streeing and this i would like fixed, i said in the email something like this, "also no body tole me it would need 4 tyres" im not sure if its my responisbilty to replace the 4 tyres ??

 

4. spoke to him today on phone , straight away i was told, you might of hit a pot hole! my mind clicked and i though here we go to myself (after keeping up to date with consumer law etc, i new he had responsibiltys) but i never told him about i knowing some of my basic rights, he said bring it back monday and ill get the tracking done as thats all it can be.

 

5. yesterday i did very little miles, however today i took it out for a propper drive and you guesed it major problems:

 

a) steering as above.

b) treible clutch shudder, through pedal and through cab of car, strange noises coming from what i belive the transmission (when clutch is dipped all weird sounds disspare and all that can be heard is the sweet sound of a nice engine, also reved with clutch dipped, again nothing but the sound of a nice sweet engine) - basically a clutch or gear box fault (i suspect a full clutch kit is needed here as that is the most likely cause i belive)

 

i have not cantacted the garage as yet relating to point 5b.

 

to say im sick is a under statement, the car appears to be in other wise fab condition etc.

 

car is a 2006 vectra 1.8 sri vvt. 61000 miles £3500, £400 trade in on my old car = £3100, £800 on one credit card, £300 on another credit card balance on visa debit car

 

how do i proceed with this? beacuse there is not a hope in hell i am going to paying any moeny to fix any item on this car, the air con dont work, and to be picky one window switch does not close the window (common problem on this car, jsut needs a clean, which i was more then happy to do myself at a latter day) car advitised with electric windows and air con, i belive these 2 items should be in full working order? (remember ive got these 2 items as further evidence in my favour)

 

i really like this car, it has service history to about 18000 ago, and after alot of research the 1.8 sri is the car that has the least amount of probelms out of all the vectra c range.

 

ideally i want this car fixed and every problem fixed, including a air con re gas or fix, im not sure about the 4 tyres as i say.

 

if not and he fails to comply with his legal obligations then i want a full refund.

 

what are your thoughts on this? how do i proceed? what are my rights?

Edited May 26, 2012 by leeroy2009

[Conniff]

I suggest you don't use the car over the weekend and on Monday when you pay him a visit, insist he comes with you on a test drive.

 

On the steering, is the need to hold the wheel at 2oclock to keep it in a straight line, ie is the wheel misaligned or does the car move to the left when the wheel is let go ?

[leeroy2009]

hi thanks for taking a interest!! car is now off the road.

 

yes you need to hold steering at 2oclock to drive in a staight line.

 

when the the streeing wheel is centre the car veers (drives) to left WITH HANDS ON the wheel and does not feel right, because it aint right, im a stickler for tracking been correct so this problem stood out like a sore thumb , and i knew something was not right.

 

have a genral interest in cars been round them for years, thats how i know it has problems, the clutch judder and noises just put teh icing on the cake.

 

i have also sold my old car to him (as a trade in) hope this dont cause problems.

 

surpised he never responded to first email, only about 30 cars, 2 sales men with desks and pcs especially with only buying the car yesterday, as i say the first email was sent so i have proof im am dooing things correctly and trying to resolve issues, should i put the clutch problem into writng and email him it tonight, and text him to say i have emailed you with further urgent problems?

[heliosuk]

Front tracking has no effect on pull/drift issues unless it is that far out it renders the car undriveable.

 

The issue here is most probably down to the state of the tyres. You buy the car with tyres in that condition and unless you pay for them to be replaced what more can you expect?

 

I would suggest you replace tyres and see if any of the issues other than the steering pull re-occur as they are linked but not directly so. Some of the issues you described would be concurrent with the age, mileage and price you paid for the car.

[leeroy2009]

sorry but your anserw is not acceptable for a 24 hour old car, there is a issue with the steering, you should not have to hold the steering wheel at 2 oclock for the car to drive straight, nor should the car drive to the left when the streering wheel is dead staright, both the front tyres are same brand and tread pattern and worn equally.

 

the car was advitised with air con and electric windows, according to the info i have read linked to from posts on this site, then it is established that anything advertised should be fully working - air con been one of them.

 

the clutch judder, loud noise and car shaking is not acceptable, there is clearly a fault, and as such this car is not fit for purpose, and is not of reasonable quality, i paid £3500 more or less for a 6 year old car with 60000 miles on it, this car is faulty i know this because i have driven many types of cars over nearly 15 years of motoring.

 

as i say this car is just over 24 hours old from the garage, he fixes it or fully refunds, there is no other option available to him.

 

you dont not hand over £3500 to then have to replace the clutch, 4 tyres, re gas the air con, and put up with steering issues within 24 hours of purchase.

[leeroy2009]

ps i was unaware of the tyres needing changed until i got home and read the mot advisory sheet.

[Conniff]

I personally would be there first thing Monday morning handing the keys back and demanding a refund.

 

If you should want to reject then it must be done in writing which I would have in my hand on Monday morning. List all the faults and keep a copy of the letter.

[leeroy2009]

conniff its your advise and that of the below i will be following, had the clutch gone in 4 months then yes, id proably say fair wear and tear and down to me to fix, but not within 24 hours

 

 

 

It must also be

roadworthy. (It is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy car). A car is not roadworthy if its brakes, tyres, steering, or construction make it unfit for the road. Even if the car has an MOT certificate, this doesn't necessarily mean that it is roadworthy.

 

the car is a pain to keep control of, as you are having to hold the steering wheel in a awkard position to drive the thing in a staright line - a saftey issue

 

The car should get you from A to B with the appropriate degree of comfort, ease of handling and reliability that a reasonable person would expect - streeing and clutch issues.

 

For example, if the advert says there's air conditioning and a CD player, the car should come with these features and they should work properly - ie the air con should work!

 

no faults were pointed out to me, and he told me the car was fine and there was no problems with

 

The dealer would not be able to evade responsibility for mechanical defects if they were not apparent on your examination.

Edited May 26, 2012 by leeroy2009

[leeroy2009]

I personally would be there first thing Monday morning handing the keys back and demanding a refund.

 

If you should want to reject then it must be done in writing which I would have in my hand on Monday morning. List all the faults and keep a copy of the letter.

 

 

can you link me to a recent temple rejection letter, so i can show him im serrious, at a rough guess this car needs £500 to £800 quids worth of work, as that is waht it would cost me to fix this car, thats if its only a wheel allignement problem and a new clutch needed, however i will not be paying for this, and i still belive the 4 tyres needing replaceing should of been pointed out to me at the start, its possible he sold me a illegal car if the tyre had worn past the legal limit on its way from the mot back to his garage - this is one hell of a shame beacuse i had my heart set on this car, its totaly imaculate for been 6 years old and is a great looking car.

[leeroy2009]

stunning vauxhall vectra sri nav 1.8 with service history in exellent condition ABS, Air conditioning,......

 

 

thats the add of the start of the car, perhaps the asa should be contacted too if things start to turn nasty, afterall its quite clearly a miss leading advert.

[heliosuk]

sorry but your anserw is not acceptable for a 24 hour old car, there is a issue with the steering, you should not have to hold the steering wheel at 2 oclock for the car to drive straight, nor should the car drive to the left when the streering wheel is dead staright, both the front tyres are same brand and tread pattern and worn equally.

 

the car was advitised with air con and electric windows, according to the info i have read linked to from posts on this site, then it is established that anything advertised should be fully working - air con been one of them.

 

the clutch judder, loud noise and car shaking is not acceptable, there is clearly a fault, and as such this car is not fit for purpose, and is not of reasonable quality, i paid £3500 more or less for a 6 year old car with 60000 miles on it, this car is faulty i know this because i have driven many types of cars over nearly 15 years of motoring.

 

as i say this car is just over 24 hours old from the garage, he fixes it or fully refunds, there is no other option available to him.

 

you dont not hand over £3500 to then have to replace the clutch, 4 tyres, re gas the air con, and put up with steering issues within 24 hours of purchase.

 

One thing is for certain here and that is that he is not legally obliged to replace the tyres provided they were legal at the point of sale. That is clearly down to you. Further you need to bare in mind that far from being a 24hour old car it is 6 years old and has 61,000 miles on the clock and that you failed to check, test drive or anything else it seems before parting with your cash.

 

True, there are aspects of this that the dealer would be obliged to fixand you should proceed as Conniff points out however don't expect an easy ride on this one though I hope you do. Obviously with your 15 years of driving you know all there is to know about cars, powertrain issues, vehicle suspension geometry and consumer law.

 

I'm sure the ASA will be extremely interested in you observations.

 

Good luck.

[leeroy2009]

i already explained why i did not test drive it, i did however fully test drive and fully check the car i first bought, and paid the deposit on, untill i changed my mind very close to end of buisness and went for a different car, like i say it was arranged i would arrive next day for the test drive etc.

 

anyway a update, today the clutch totaly failed on the way back to the garge (they are open) and became totaly undrivable.

 

the garage are now in contact with me via email, and keeping the paper trail, i was given my old car back (which he did not have to do) and he has assured me in writing that me and the car is his top priority tommrow, he has also admitted he is aware of the soga act and he will not let me down.

 

i have never bought from a used car place before, i was starting to think i was having the mick took out of me and a dodgy motor had been supplied to me.

 

the asa bit was me meaning the car is not in exellent condtion as his adds state, clearly missleading, and would of been something i would of complained to them about etc had they started to fob me off etc, i highly doubt the asa would of done anything though.

 

it is 24 hours old in the sense it was bought in that time scale.

 

paint chips / scratches, scratched windows, scuffed alloy wheels, tear in seats, worn carpets are not something i would ever dream of complaining about as this is fair and resonable.

 

i will update this thread in due course when i get updates, i am now lookng to get this car back in a condition that the car was advertised in, i will be getting new clutch fitted (which can only be a good thing and should do at least another 60000 miles on), streeing fix (tracking / wheel alignment) air con regass, looks like 4 new tyres, i have asked in way of compensation for a simple oil and filter change, which i belive they will now be happy to do.

 

when the clutch fully failed today the lad at the sales place really was concernd, there was no attempted fob off or anything like that, they accepted it was there responsibily and seem to be taking charge of the situation, if everything goes well, then i will have no problem recomeding these sales people to anyone, as it looks like im about to get at least £500s worth of work done on this car to sort it out to the way the car was originally advertised.

 

i have fully researched this car, the 1.8 vectra sri vvt, is the car that has the least amount of issues in this range, now the diesal vectra c s is a different matter.

[leeroy2009]

well things turned out to be quite eventfull today, with even the police been called.

 

i went back to issue a rejection letter, i was told to and i quote "f*** off and get back in your car"

 

i told them i have issued the letter, im seeking a refund, you can either refund or i see you in court.

 

they became very abusive (all on video and audio recording) i told them i was going to sit outside all day and tell any member of the public who may enter there car lot a true story about the purchase of my car, and i proceeded to do so, no liable no nothing bad, i just told the public the truth in relation to my experience with this car company.

 

the employyes of this company kept coming to me car to get me to go away, told me i was invading privacy filiming and talking to customers, so they phoned the police on me.

 

police arrived i made it quite clear to the police i was going nowhere, im quite within my rights to film in any public place, and i was not harrasing any customers, and that i was telling the customers the truth, and that the customer themselfs would have to deem my actions as harrasment (and not the garage)

 

police told the garage im quite within my rights to film them and approach members of the public, the police also told the garage that "he is going to stay there all day untill you refund him"

 

i had been there a hour or 2 before the police arrived. quite strange that the garage then had a change of heart and issues me a cheque in the presence of the police, however they refused to refund £107 for the car tax, i made a swift decision to take the vast majority of the refund and leave.

 

 

however i have not finnished with this used car company yet, i want my £107 back, i have already rang the credit card company and they are sending out the forms to dispute the £107 owed to me.

 

i will fight tooth and nail to get the £107 back, do you agree i try and get this back from my credit car, or i lba the garage and issue proceedings?

 

what a day i have had.

[leeroy2009]

can someone please help me and my partner?

 

the garage issued 3 cheques, they today have bounced a cheque for over £3000, a employee of this garge has also asaulted me, police are investigating the assault and i am also trying to get them to take a complaint under the fraud act for stopping this cheque.

 

i paid so much on credit card (well 2 credit cards) the rest was from a visa debit card of £2000, are the credit cards liable for the full amount inc the £2000? i just want some advice, on if this is the case?

[Conniff]

Where is the car at this moment in time ?

[leeroy2009]

car is back with them, they got it back 26th may, they refunded the money 28th may via 2 cheques, they refunded the road tax i think it was the 29th (via cheque), one small amount cheque has seemed to of cleared ok (one of the 2 cheques issued 28th) it is the big cheque £3000 they have stopped.

[leeroy2009]

the 3rd road tax cheque was only banked yesterday so has of yet not cleared or bounced

[heliosuk]

I always believed that if you paid by credit card or debit card and a refund was due, then the refund had to be made by the same payment method. I think this was introduced to prevent fraud though I suspect that a cheque is traceable whereas cash is not. You also mike like to be a bit more difinitive as to whether the cheque bounced or was stopped. The two are very different.

 

Whilst I sympathise with your tale, you need to leave the assault bit out as we only have your side of the tale and I have to say, to me, the tone of your posts is somewhat agressive.

[leeroy2009]

there is nothing agresive about my posts, we are the injured parties here, we were sold a unfit for purpose car, they refunded via cheque in the presence of 2 police officers, they then stop the cheque - which i belive is a offence under section 2 of the fraud act 2006.

[leeroy2009]

bank account says "unpaid chq rdpr"

[heliosuk]

So it hasn't "bounced".........it has been stopped. They can do this if they have a legitimate reason. You have essentially bought a car blind.

 

" i told them i have issued the letter, im seeking a refund, you can either refund or i see you in court.

they became very abusive (all on video and audio recording) i told them i was going to sit outside all day and tell any member of the public who may enter there car lot a true story about the purchase of my car, and i proceeded to do so, no liable no nothing bad, i just told the public the truth in relation to my experience with this car company.

the employyes of this company kept coming to me car to get me to go away, told me i was invading privacy filiming and talking to customers, so they phoned the police on me.

police arrived i made it quite clear to the police i was going nowhere, im quite within my rights to film in any public place, and i was not harrasing any customers, and that i was telling the customers the truth, and that the customer themselfs would have to deem my actions as harrasment (and not the garage)

police told the garage im quite within my rights to film them and approach members of the public, the police also told the garage that "he is going to stay there all day untill you refund him"

 

The above in itself seems pretty aggressive to me rather than dealing with it in a proper logical way, the way these things have to work. My interpretation is that you have done yourself no favours here. The dealer probably issued the cheques to diffuse the situation as advised by plod.

 

As pointed out by yourself and your 15 years of experience in consumer law and driving you should know the score, how the system works, so why you are posting in the way you do is beyond me.

[leeroy2009]

and if "The dealer probably issued the cheques to diffuse the situation as advised by plod" was the reason why they were latter stopped then its a criminal offence under sec 2 of the fraud act, oh by the way i was at the solicitors today, who confirmed in there opionion of course that this was a act of fraud.

[heliosuk]

I think that statement just reinforces what I have said.

 

You need to deal with this in a rational manner, not go in with guns blazing all the time, and "I know my rights". The fact is you have bought a car essentially blind. It has issues. Some of those issues are questionably the responsibility of the dealer, some of those yours without doubt.

 

But it's your attitude. As I have said previously, don't expect an easy ride as this was very evident from one of your early posts and this is turning out to be very true. You need to calm down, accept some responsibility for a bad decision and listen to what people with qualified experience tell you and make your own judgements from there on despite you seeming to have such vast experience.

[Bang!]

So will you be test driving your next purchase first? :D:D

 

When you do you should remember that a seller has no obligation to tell you any faults unless you ask specifically. Even then, if they don't know about them, obviously it would be impossible to say.

 

Although an MOT is not a statement a car is roadworthy - it pretty much is on the day its issued, with the likelihood falling with time. Tyres that pass an MOT are of satisfactory quality, even if becoming illegal soon after. They are serviceable parts, so wear.

 

You listed a vast number of very noticeable flaws with the car - its a second hand car - why were you unable to see them before the sale, but see them after?

 

A mis-aligned steering wheel is neither unsafe nor an MOT fail. In the MOT test it is play or corrosion in the steering that causes a fail - with greater play permitted in steering boxes than rack and pinion. From the extent you say it was off, the steering rack has been replaced and the ball joints screwed back without doing an alignment. This would make the wheel offset - and would also be likely to make it pull to one side. It takes 15 mins to fix (by clamping the wheel straight - then doing a normal wheel alignment). If both tyres are the same pressure, then the pull different tyres create is proportional to speed. If it happens at low speeds, then its the alignment. The other possibility was the car has had an accident that distorted its steering geometry.

 

Its likely you have a claim for your bounced/cancelled cheque, based on the cheque already being issued, and presumably having paid over £100 on your credit card, which means there is joint and several liability with the bank under S75 of the CCA. Given the car has been returned undrivable and you have received cheques already - the bank would optimistically suggest you try to fix things yourself. But would pay when pushed.

 

Often people keep cars longer than relationships last. Buying a car without driving it first, is a bit like discovering your wife is a bloke on your honeymoon.

[heliosuk]

and if "The dealer probably issued the cheques to diffuse the situation as advised by plod" was the reason why they were latter stopped then its a criminal offence under sec 2 of the fraud act, oh by the way i was at the solicitors today, who confirmed in there opionion of course that this was a act of fraud.

 

It's not a criminal offence to stop a cheque and most reliable solicitors will tell you so. Seems like you need to get a better solicitor.