Broadband major hassle and ombudsman not helping

[Planta genista]

My original ISP was closing their service so after a lot of questioning too and fro, I agreed to sign up to their broadband offer.

 

However, within a day of placing the order, they already started to cause problems, changed the agreement, failed to return calls, left me with a complete mess to sort out and so I cancelled (or I tried to) within their time limit. They attempted to block my cancellation in time and later went on to say that I had not done so, even though I can clearly demonstrate that my email was sent and received in time.

 

I contacted then Consumer Direct who pointed out that the company had failed to abide by the Distance Selling Regulations as well as failed under the Sale of Goods Act in other aspects of closing the other service.

 

Since then, the situation has gone from bad to nightmare.

 

I have been at best, misled, and then lied to. I have complied with all their demands and then they change their story and make further demands.

 

I was eventually sent a MAC so I could set up a service with a totally new provider which I have done quite happily and they are brilliant.

 

In the meantime, the first ISP has now turned things around to say that a) the MAC was never used and therefore I have not closed my account (which is patently not true), b ) that I owe them money and they'll pass "the debt" to a debt collection agency and c) that because I refused to send them the original email from my new provider, (which contained personal account information that is private and I should not be forced to reveal), that I had not agreed to close my account.

 

In desperation I applied for help from the Ombudsman who, after a very trying phone call today, and despite reaching an agreement, has just taken the side of the other party despite my agreeing I would send the information to them (which I have) and refused to take the matter forward.

 

The new Citizens Advice service which has replaced Consumer Direct have not helped at all as all they said was go to the Ombudsman or take the other party to court! What do I take them to court for and how can I do this without any funds?

 

Trading Standards were not interested in the fact that the company have broken the DSRs saying it's only a civil law and they don't get involved, but I can take the company to court! After a pushing and pushing, they said that if I provided evidence they'd look at it, but quite frankly the way it was said left me feeling that they were just being placatory to get me off the phone and had no intention of taking any action.

 

I feel that not only have all those agencies let me down very badly, I keep jumping through all the hoops, complying with demands that keep changing and I'm being punished because I am getting so upset about this.

 

The original provider has at best, been very misleading and have deliberately twisted everything around to make it look as if I am being unreasonable.

 

However, the information they require is available to them simply by contacting the wholesale provider who could give them all that they require and more that I cannot give because I cannot deal with the wholesaler.

 

I have provided all that I can but am putting my foot down on giving them my personal account details with the new provider.

 

I am being threatened by a huge company who has broken the law repeatedly, broken promises, twisted things around, refused to take the appropriate actions that they could take to remedy the situation and I'm beside myself?

 

Where do I stand?

 

What do or can I do next?

[locutus]

Who is this? Is there anything negative on your credit file?

[Planta genista]

I haven't looked at my credit file, although they did previously state that there was no adverse marking on it. But that's the least of my problems.

 

I haven't named the company because I've emailed the Ombudsman to dispute their closure of the case so quickly when I had met with what we agreed so promptly, so I don't want at this stage to ruin any tiny chance I may have of someone dealing with this responsibly.

 

I keep jumping through all the hoops, having to work around or with the mess that the company have created, having to sort out their next set of demands when they repeatedly go back on their agreement, and now the Ombudsman has done the very same thing!

 

I'm just gobsmacked.

 

I've done what they wanted, faster than they wanted, and they've still stated that I said I would not provide the information.

 

What do I do?

[Planta genista]

Having done a quick search here, I can say it's that damnable company that likes to remain nameless when court actions do not go their way.

[locutus]

If you moved providers using the MAC process, then that effectivly ends their service (unless you kept line rental with them) and begins it with your new provider. If you moved to a supplier that does not use the MAC process, then it wouldn't, and I can't say who is who or what is what unless I know who we're dealing with

 

You seem to be taking a lot of stress over this, Do they owe you money? Or is it just them demanding money from you?

 

Have you contacted the companies CEO? probably listed on this site http://www.ceoemail.com/

[Planta genista]

Thanks locutus - you're already explaining more than the old supplier has, and yes, you're right - I am stressed out over this because at every turn, I've done everything right, but they keep moving the goal posts, shoving the blame back.

 

No, they don't owe me money, but they're claiming I owe them (an undisclosed amount) and that I have refused to confirm I want to close the account, which is utter tosh as they have all that in writing (letters) and by email.

 

Yes, I wrote in desperation to the CEO who passed it to a customer service rep who started to deal with this but tried to pass it over to his 'colleagues' , who then failed to deal with it. Over time, comms have deteriorated as at each turn, the people who should have sorted this out, have patently failed to do so but have ignored communications or failed to even read their own emails and letters.

 

I moved to PN who are fantastic and have been trying to help sort this out and have given me all the info on when the MAC was used and how the process works and they cannot understand why the other company (Tossars) are behaving this way as they know they can get all the info from the provisioning /wholesale team. The other company - from whom nothing helps, never mind any little - do use the MAC process and I have been telling them that they needed to get in touch with the wholesale team for the information they first said they wanted.

 

They've stated that there was a problem with the MAC process at some point at their end - but surely this does not stop them doing a simple search to see who the tag on the line is with and when it happened and to get confirmation from the wholesaler?

 

What they are demanding, and the Ombudsman has said I am at fault for not providing (!!!) is the original email from my new provider (PN) which gives my account and other personal details and which I am not prepared to divulge to a company which has no right to this information and would not have access to this personal data in the normal course of things.

 

Today, after agreeing with the Ombudsman that I would provide the information by post, with the account data blanked out, and having actually sent an email to them from PN giving a reference number for the original order, which should have been all that they needed, the Ombudsman suddenly decided to close the case.

 

This is despite weeks of my trying to resolve this and their refusal to respond to my original letters of complaint and requests for information. The other company only responding when I emailed them after I kept receiving phone calls and a threatening letter. So, because they had not done what they said they had, I complained again, they moved the goalposts and demanded information which I actually could not provide (actual evidence of the MAC being used) and then, when I pointed that out to them, they said that if I didn't send the original confirmation email (which shows my personal account data) they would not close the account!

 

It's blackmail - they have all the information they need - I feel they are deliberately bullying because they know they are in the wrong over so many issues.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Planta genista
some bits got missed off

[Planta genista]

Just to add - that company will not explain why they have failed, or are refusing to attempt to get the information they originally requested from the provisioning / wholesale team and the Ombudsman (or the pre-investigation officer) has failed to ask them for this explanation.

 

Also - remembered this today when I got yet another phone call from them:

 

1. despite promises that the phone calls would cease,
   
2. despite my insisting that all correspondence has to be in writing because they have repeatedly either lied about what was agreed or denied having certain conversations by phone, and because they have repeatedly gone back on their word and I have no proof of what has been discussed,
   
3. despite my stressing that these calls were now harassment as the matter was supposed to be in dispute and being dealt with by CS,
   

they persist in phoning and refuse to stop.

 

I will not talk to them when they call, I have asked them to stop calling, but when I have explained that they are not supposed to be calling me, they laugh and start calling me by my first name, say things like "oh yeh, why's that then?" and they know they are calling to deliberately cause distress.

 

Oh - and it's TESCO!!!

 

After a sleepless night, composing a response and going over what I should do next, I have responded to the Ombudsman to disagree with their decision and to point out that, during yet another phone call, the agreements we had have been reneged on - plus repeating all the salient points as to why Tesco have been given every opportunity to resolve this matter but have consistently added further demands to 'justify' their inability to close this account.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Planta genista
Additional info reminded about and from today

[Planta genista]

I edited that post above and put in the reason for the edit, but it doesn't appear to show.

[locutus]

I have walked this path before

 

I was with Tesco when they 1st started, and they could not resolve my issues. I told them their service was unsatisfactory, and I moved providers to TalkTalk (in that case there is no need for a MAC)

Tesco contacted me, I told them as they had not provided me with the service I signed up for I moved providers, and if they want any cash from me they can take me to court. After that any calls from them I refused to answer security questions and said if you want any cash from me get a court order.

 

My advice to you is to enjoy the sunshine whilst it lasts Life is too short to worry about these idiots

 

FYI Tesco is a virtual provider. They have no servers and no access to servers. They just tell BT to provide or stop service. You say "ombudsman" and then "the pre-investigation officer" Who is it that you are in touch with? Have you had a DEADLOCK letter from tesco? I take it you are following their complaints code, if not it's http://www.tescobroadband.com/complaintscode/. Finally, how often are they calling you?

[Planta genista]

Thanks locutus.

 

That then means they have no excuse whatsoever because they simply need to apply to BT wholesale for the information they require. As it is BT who knows who now provides the service and who has the tag on the line, clearly Tesco have either refused to do their work or they're deliberately messing me about, and I don't discount that.

 

I have never had any kind of deadlock letter - because it was taken over by the person in CS and dealt with by email. He did eventually say that because I was refusing to confirm I wanted my account cancelled (which was a total lie as I've said above) and refusing to supply the demanded information (but he was refusing to say why they would not approach the wholesaler for the info), then he could not help me further.

 

I did write a letter of complaint to Tesco Broadband which was completely ignored, hence my turning to the CEO.

 

They have called me intermittently in batches, (eg every day for a few days, then nothing then it started again) but it's not always easy to know if they've called from a withheld number and I've not been in to take the call.

 

Other times it seems that every time I send an email, I get a call from someone who's tone and approach is really very unpleasant in that it's obvious they're attempting another wind-up. Now, I simply keep refusing to give them any information, and tell them not to call again as it's harassment.

 

I'm not discussing anything on the phone, not even who I am.

 

The Ombudsman is the overall Ombudsman service for (in this case) Communications - they also seem to 'do' other utilities. I was told to contact them by Citizen Advice help line who have taken over from Consumer Direct and that's another loss of a darn good service to be replaced by one that doesn't really want to know.

 

So, I've gone more than the extra mile and still do not have the required info from Tesco.

 

As an aside, I also wrote to them to insist they supply me with the final accounting for the narrowband they were closing as they had insisted they would take more money (which I know was not owed) after they had closed the account.

 

Consumer Direct as was, helped me with all that information, the points of law and what to write - Tesco have ignored that letter too.

 

So, I'm going to give it my best shot and try to let it all go for now because if it does got to court, I'm sure that the evidence will be compelling against Tesco on so many levels.

 

The only other thing referring back to my original post - I still do not understand how I am supposed to take Tesco to court (as both Cit Ad and TS told me to) for breaking consumer law.

 

Cit Ad even told me to take them to the small claims court - but would not help when I kept asking for what because I have no financial loss to claim?

 

Have I missed something here?

 

If I really wanted to (in theory only) could I take them to court for failing to comply with a request and handle a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act? You see, it's all well and good having these laws, but if they cannot be enforced (or TS will not enforce them) and the companies just refuse to comply with requests or to take the appropriate action, then what does a single consumer do???

 

I'm thinking of whether to send an SAR anyway to see if they comply and if they do, what they supply because I'm betting it would not be everything by a long shot.

 

However, if they fail to comply with the SAR, then what???

[locutus]

You say "tag on line". These occur when a broadband account has not canceled when the phone line has been taken over by another company, or when there is a service on a line that is incompatible with broadband, and can be a pain to deal with. (BT is split into different companies and they all need to talk to one another to get the issue resolved)

 

So, Is your phone line and broadband up and running now with no problems? If so, my advice is for you to let this go and let "ombudsman services:communications" (formally Otelo) do their job. Just to give you a little smile here, if a complaint gets escalated to them, it costs the service provider money weather they find for you or not.

[Planta genista]

I used the word 'Tag' because that's the term by another phone company a few years ago when I was trying to work out whether to try and get broadband, but I went with Tesco narrowband instead.

 

See - you're explaining even more that makes sense - but which companies just don't communicate properly.

 

The lack of proper clear communication is, IMHO, not just negligence, it is obviously used in order to allow Tesco to move the goal posts as and when they want. So, it's hardly surprising that customers get very confused and then bullied into believing they've got it wrong and so pay up rather than face further intimidation.

 

My broadband was set up (using the MAC provided by Tesco) a the beginning of March and has been running with no problems whatsoever by my current provider, who have been fantastic.

 

The Ombudsman are refusing to take the case because Tesco counter-disputed and instead of the Ombudsman (or the woman dealing with the pre-investigation) reading all the correspondence showing that I had done more than was required but Tesco kept changing their demands and refusing to take the actions that only they could take (I can't contact their wholesaler - BT Openreach??? - for them!!!), she just dumped the whole thing without any further discussion.

 

She agreed on the phone to ask Tesco why they were not contacting their provisioning team / wholesaler for the info, which she then did not do. She agreed that I should send her a copy of an email with personal private data that Tesco were insisting on seeing, blanked out. She then changed her mind with no explanation.

 

That email, BTW, would have given Tesco no different information to that which they already had - except the personal details of my account with the new provider. So Tesco were demanding to have sight of account information which they have no right to view - they knew this, they had all the info that they said they needed some weeks ago, then changed their minds. So, if I did not allow them to have that private data, they would not close the account - the CS rep stated that I had refused to state I wanted the account closed!!!

 

BTW - Allegedly, if a MAC is not used (eg if I decided not to have any further internet connection after being provided with the MAC), an account can never be closed?? I am tied into an account for ever, even though I have closed my account, in writing, within the timescale etc etc.

 

They're too big - they have been taking so much of people's personal information for so long, that they are now above the law. They think they can have access to whatever they like.

 

So, Tesco won't be charged anything! They have misled and reneged on agreements all along, they have essentially been dishonest about so much and I have so much evidence to show that plus that they've indulged in breaking the law, bad practice etc. And yet, none of this matters apparently.

 

It's a disgraceful situation and Tesco are a highly abusive, bullying company.

 

Still phoning me - phoned today and are refusing to accept that everything has to be in writing.

 

What would be the outcome if I send an SAR and they fail to comply?

Edited May 24, 2012 by Planta genista

[locutus]

Truth be told, tesco will not persue this more than making phone calls. Get someone else to answer and say "Planta genista has moved to Egypt, send the mail here and I'll forward it"

[Planta genista]

 

I've had another email where they're now basically trying to pass all the responsibility with scare tactics saying they CAN close it manually (oh, really????) but if it all goes wrong with the service from my other provider, then it's my acceptance.

 

They've had the last reply.

 

If they don't get it sorted, and if they do try anything further, then I'll sort out what to do after that.

 

Egypt????

 

Mmmmmmmmmmm - I've been rather fancying the idea of moving to the Azores, meself. Peace and quite, rolling lush greenery, loads of beautiful wildlife ............. no Tesco advertising!!!!

[Planta genista]

Locutus, I don't think Tesco are going to just leave this - because they keep emailing to twist the situation back on it being my responsibility for them not closing the account - so they've been putting me through hell for weeks now when they could have sorted this out all along without playing games.

 

I now have two different sets of people emailing - the broadband service (different people) and the executive CS rep - all saying the same thing which I know is not true, and all refusing to answer my questions.

 

They're obviously enjoying themselves because they can - because they've got away with this kind of bullying for so long.

 

I've told them to close the account - ad nauseam - but they're still insisting I have to give them permission to close it manually and take responsibility for it going pear-shaped!

 

Given all their blatant lies and mis-selling, and mis-handling of this from the start, and given they're lying about the facts of who is my SP, I have no doubt that they would attempt to cause some sort of problem at their end to attempt to sabotage my current service.

 

Yes, I know that sounds paranoid, but these gits have been running me ragged with their sharp practice and then messing about with their demands and threats, so I would never trust them again with anything.

 

They are not fit to be running such a business.

 

BTW - can I hold the CEO responsible for their failings should this go to court, given that I entrusted him with sorting this out in the first place?

[locutus]

This will not go to court. It is simply not worth it. If it were a clear cut case and you owed £1000 or more it MAY be worth them taking it to court. What you have to figure on is it will be your local court, so a solicitor will have to travel there, and have enough information to guarantee a win, and as a small case costs are liable so Tesco will foot the bill for all this even if they were to win! In your place I would be asserting that if they think you owe this it will be no problem for them to take you to court for it, then ignoring them.

 

Ignoring them is a very valid tactic here. Look at the costs of them trying to collect the debt. Staff to send emails and debt collection letters, stamps... they'll give up soon enough. They'll probably pass the debt on to debt collection agencies, just tell them that you want them to take you to court as you don't owe this and you'll only accept a Judge telling you that the debt is valid.

[Planta genista]

Thing is, I've had enough of the hassle of debt collection agencies over the years - I don't want to be dealing with them any more especially when I don't owe any money.

 

DCA's won't go away, my credit rating gets trashed when I've spent a long time getting it cleaned up, and as (quite genuinely) my health is not good and eventually I will be going into hospital for ops and a long recuperation, I really don't need this.

 

I will ignore them after I send one last actual letter and in that I'll put that if they don't sort this out and clear up their mess, then it will have to go to Court for a Judge to decide on the breaches of law and the harassment for payment of a non-debt. I think I'll chuck in an invoice for my time and costs in trying to clear up their mistakes.

 

I do at least know that I can prove a whole load, and that they have consistently misled, used bullying tactics, refused to answer questions or take appropriate action when they could to avoid all this nastiness.

[locutus]

Have they recorded anything negative on your credit file? That would be a good thing to take them to court for

[Planta genista]

This is where I rather embarrassingly admit to being a complete wimp about this kind of thing as I've always found it very daunting.

 

I have never looked at it and I'm not sure how to do it. In the past, because of being long-term unemployed, even a few quid was out of the question because I simply could not find enough money to keep going. I couldn't eat well, which is partly now why my health is worse than it should be.

 

Now I'm retired and on pension credit, I could afford to do a one-off, but I don't want to find myself tied into having to pay repeatedly, or to end up with a debit going out on my account as I still have to watch my expenditure very closely.

 

I think I have sufficient evidence to show that Tesco has consistently (despite their claims) put obstacles in the way to sorting this out and to ensure the account was not closed. I think it's disgraceful, but somehow I'm not surprised, that the Ombudsman has refused to look at the trail of communications to see this and has just taken Tesco's word that it's my fault they cannot close the account.

 

The woman failed to even look at the original cancellation notice to see that Tesco had either lied to her or broken the law in setting up the account in the first place! She just repeated what Tesco had said to her on the phone.

 

So Tesco are clearly so used to getting their own way, they are just continuing in that vein.

 

And, because this has gone from bad to nightmare, I can't share your optimism that Tesco won't pursue this because they have repeatedly changed their tune and already applied 'the debt' of an undisclosed sum in writing.

 

I'll have to see what they do next. I've lobbed it back at them that they have all the info they said they needed to close the account, so if they are now refusing to do so, then that is their decision.

 

It really beggars belief that a company is prepared to do this to their 'customers'.

[Planta genista]

I'm going to keep adding things to this thread to demonstrate just how dishonest Tesco have been.

 

They keep showing they've had the information they needed, but have refused to use it to close the account.

 

Now - some week's back the CS rep emailed: "I'll send confirmation once this is done and also issue a suitable gesture..."

 

That "suitable gesture" has been a constant stream of emails going back on their word, twisting the facts, failing to answer questions, and now a very (apply heavy sarcasm) generous offer to waive all costs that I have incurred with Tesco if I waive all responsibility for their actions affecting my current ISP, in closing the account!

 

I know it seems like I'm rattling on, but I can't be the only person who has been caught in their web of failure to abide by the Distance Selling Regulations and to take due care and consideration under SOGA.

 

If this somehow manages to help others, then at least there will be some good coming out of it.

[locutus]

OK, re: credit file.

You can request a statutory report for £2 from the 3 main CRAs (credit reference agencies) click on the link for the one you fancy (experian probably the biggest) Experian Equifax CallCredit

 

You can get a free credit report from noddle but this may not be as comprehensive as the others

 

You can take a free trial of "credit expert". If you want this to stay free, remember to cancel within your 1st month.

[Planta genista]

OK - thank you very much. I shall now get my act together on this and do my checks.

 

It doesn't seem to say on Experien how much it costs if you use the free 30 day trial and then continue with it, or am I missing something? Equifax is £6.99 per month after the 30 day free trial. I thought they had to state by law what it would cost before you signed up?

 

If I get the £2 check, then I'll need to spend another £2 etc every time I want to check it? Is there a limit on how often you can check your credit rating or use the 30 day free trial per year?

[locutus]

You can use the free trial, cancel after you have read your report, then not pay a penny If you want to constantly check your file, go with noodle as it's free.

[Planta genista]

Wilco!

 

[Planta genista]

Well, it's going from bad to worse.

 

they finally sent an email saying they'd close the account on 28 May stating "This will complete within four working days and all balances on the account will be cleared."

 

Today, I've received a nasty letter from Moorcroft demanding payment of £51.94 as instructed by Tesco Broadband!!!

 

Can I take action against Tesco?