breach of confidentiality?

[ellieh34]

Hi there, new on here, but it seems so helpful, i thought i would try.

 

Long story short, NHS worker, just finished theoretical training for union rep - no other experience to date regarding that role (in fact i have discussed with my manager on numerous occasions - they have in turn contacted the relevant union/mentors to ask about further support and experience - unanswered).

Off sick with depression (after 2 years informing managers of current work situation, that remained unchanged during that time). Whilst off sick, I was told that as a result of me attending a recent DH, in an observational capacity for learning experience, I had breached confidentiality by disclosing information that was privy to me as a result of my attendance.

 

Investigatory is over - I did state that i named person who had been dismissed. However - this was some 4-6 weeks after that hearing, it was being discussed openly by most of my work colleagues, by other staff in other work environments within the region - and also, had been openly discussed on a social networking site.

 

I did not think, considering information was in the public domain, I had committed any breach - I am now awaiting DH date. My rep - (we do not get on - plus she was my mentor - i am assured there is no other rep to support me - i did ask)! - has stated that I am wrong and as a rep I should have said nothing and that it did not matter if it was broadcast on the news! surely this is ridiculous?

 

Advice would be most hugely appreciated - whatever it is.

thanks.

[ellieh34]

Hi there, I have received no replies to my post - which must be a first - is there anyone who can advise at all out there? I would be truly grateful for an outside opinion.

Many thanks hopefully! ellieh

[papasmurf1cx]

If you are a union rep, is the union not helping you in this matter? It seems that it an attack on your union business.

 

Also, can you expand on how long you have been off sick with the depression and are you saying that the depression is a reason for them starting on you in regard to a disciplinary hearing? Are they 'after you' because of sickness? Where has the depression come from ie is it work related? Have you ever previously put in any sort of grievance in regard to issues that made you depressed?

 

There are posts that sometimes do not receive any replies but you did the right thing in 'bumping' it to the top again. You may not have received replies because your 'long story short' was too short and does not give the context of your problem.

 

Can I suggest you take time to explain the whole story, even if it is long. make sure you put lots of paragraphs and space in the port as it aids reading and understanding. You will attract more replies when the context is clear.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Something you need to remember is:

 

1. Your were at a Disciplinary meeting as an Observer and everything discussed or any documents at that meeting are treated as Strictly Confidential.

(But were you informed of this before the meeting and had the Disciplinary Panel ask the Employee being disciplined permission for you to be present in an observer capacity?)

 

2. You say the information was in the public domain but it would not have been your Employer that put it in the public domain. (it could have been the employee disciplined telling others that asked then spread word of mouth)

[Browncow]

Hi there, new on here, but it seems so helpful, i thought i would try.

 

Long story short, NHS worker, just finished theoretical training for union rep - no other experience to date regarding that role (in fact i have discussed with my manager on numerous occasions - they have in turn contacted the relevant union/mentors to ask about further support and experience - unanswered).

Off sick with depression (after 2 years informing managers of current work situation, that remained unchanged during that time). Whilst off sick, I was told that as a result of me attending a recent DH, in an observational capacity for learning experience, I had breached confidentiality by disclosing information that was privy to me as a result of my attendance.

 

Investigatory is over - I did state that i named person who had been dismissed. However - this was some 4-6 weeks after that hearing, it was being discussed openly by most of my work colleagues, by other staff in other work environments within the region - and also, had been openly discussed on a social networking site.

 

I did not think, considering information was in the public domain, I had committed any breach - I am now awaiting DH date. My rep - (we do not get on - plus she was my mentor - i am assured there is no other rep to support me - i did ask)! - has stated that I am wrong and as a rep I should have said nothing and that it did not matter if it was broadcast on the news! surely this is ridiculous?

 

Advice would be most hugely appreciated - whatever it is.

thanks.

The issue of confidentiality is being overblown here. For a start you were very new to the role and that should be enough in itself to counter any allegation of wrongdoing on your part. Also, as you say, the facts were common knowledge, which made it difficult for you to see that you should not have made any comment. You are guilty of no more than an understandable error of judgment , which is unlikely to be repeated and the union should be supporting you as you are only an ordinary worker offering to do your bit to help others in an unpaid workplace rep capacity.

 

I recently heard that a co-worker had been sacked for theft. I was told by other workers and got all the details. I had previously asked the union rep why he was not at work but he did not tell me. I assumed that he was off sick owing to conflict with management. That union rep did what you should have done by not telling me. He has loads more experience than you and knew that someone else would fill me in but it was inappropriate for him to do it. On the other hand, had he told me, no harm would have resulted but the principle of keeping your mouth shut is a good one for workplace reps in general.

[ellieh34]

Wow, thank you all very much for your replies - they are are incrediblu useful!

 

To answer them in turn - I went to management, during and after completion of the theoretical part of my training as I had received no support whatsoever from my RCN mentor - they did not even answer my weekly emails to ask about shadowing opportunities.

Meanwhile - colleagues, were of course approaching me with issues, that I felt ill equipped and was of course, in reality, unable to deal with - I referred them to RCN direct, but felt frustrated as this is not why I agreed to be the rep for the team and put myself out there so to speak.

 

Depression wise, - I have been struggling, much sickness since 2010 - I am alone in a very big organisation, the biggest in Europe, when there should be 3 of us, fully trained - there has not been, so I have made a nuisance of myself by going to management and highlighting this fact on, god more occasions than I can remember - nothing was ever done.

 

My RCN rep was my mentor for the course - I never saw her before my investigatory meeting when she was incredibly late - no apologies though! She informs me that I am wrong to summise that as information was in the public domain I have done no wrong - in her opinion, I am very wrong and " will be lucky to get out of this without losing my job". I find this horrendous, as I was well aware, that staff on units were talking about it, colleagues were talking about it, and that the person who was dismissed, who I stayed in touch with, openly informed me that it had been discussed on facebook. The person who reported me to management, who I considered to be a good friend, (more fool me), works on the unit where I spent 13 years of my working life, and so knew all the people involved very well - that person has now been made acting team manager - so at least I know the reasons behind the so called betrayal!!!

 

I am just very frustrated as, I did say what I did, but it was already known and being openly discussed, even on the internet - I felt this could not therefore be considered as a breach - I informed the investigating officer of this - who said it was not her concern - she was only concerned about the allegation against myself, and I had admitted to saying that I named the person who had been dismissed - which I did - BUT EVERYONE ALREADY KNEW!

 

The day after the dismissal - a manager emailed the team to state that this person no longer worked for the team - I received several calls from colleagues asking me what had gone on, what did i know - etc - i refused to comment.

 

My union advise at the DH is to focus on the fact i was off with depression and focus on that, plead guilty and rely on mitigating circumstances - i feel differently but the rep is not interested in my opinion. ( I have tried to get another, but the top person called me and told me there was no need).

 

again, all advise/opinions gratefully received.

 

thank you

ellie xx

[ellieh34]

Dear Stu007 - thank you, yes you are completely right, which of course is why I am now facing Disciplinary Action - i was there at the DH meeting, and of course, I fully understood any information I heard was confidential.

 

My point is, that, a week or so later, I was signed of sick by my GP with depression (long overdue, but I simply would not go off sick and recognise there was a problem). i barely left the house - the first time I did was 3 weeks after I had gone off sick, then the week after - only to go locally to get provisions - it was on this occasion that I met ex colleagues - they were friends of the dismissee - not only in life, as colleagues, admittedly, but also on line on facebook.

 

The person who reported me to managment was also a friend of the dismissee on facebook. All were ex colleagues of mine where I used to work, some I knew for over 13 years. It is hard to take.

As stated, the one who reported this incident to management, has now obtained an acting team manager role - so at least I can understand the rationale. My manager is aware of this, and i informed them that, due to my current situation and circumstances, I did not feel it was appropriate to divulge, discuss and of course make an allegation against someone, who had of course done the same against me, thus my current position! I told them that I would following the outcome of my DH regardless of the outcome. This causes me much concern, because of course, it will merely be seen as sour grapes in truth.

 

Although, if you can help this leads me onto another question I have been battling with.

The person who reported me for breach of confidentiality, just appointed in a managerial secondment role - I have information where they committed the same offence and also plagiarism, in regards of their degree course - which was not relayed to the organisation - deceit? shows untruthful character? I think and know it does!

 

It is all so very awful - not clear cut! feel set up really, so someone, a colleague, can further their career, which ofcourse is what is happening - someone, who when I was a sister on ITU, had barely qualified!

 

so need help, advise, comments, perspective - am I being obsessional?

[circumhrgirl]

Hi, new to the forum, but hopefully my view my help a little as to what your disciplinary panel might be thinking.I used to do disciplinaries in as unionised environment in the past.

 

Firstly, a breach of confidentiality is a breach, and no amount of debating about who else knew and if it was on a social networking site is going to help you here. You need to accept you have breached it. HR people, managers and union reps are in a position of trust and if they breach confidentiality then who can you trust? Your union rep is trying to help you with their line of defence.

 

The panel will need to consider if this breach and its impact is so bad that they could never trust you again, and if so, that could be gross misconduct and summary dismissal, with no notice pay.

 

I think you know you have done wrong, and whilst I do genuinely feel sorry for you here, I would fully expect someone in your situation to argue that they have been sick, aggrieved and untrained as an excuse as to why they breached confidentiality to get themselves off the hook. Your attitude to this issue will define how they treat you in a disciplinary, and if you are still trying to excuse yourself with other issues, arguing that everyone knew about it etc etc, and basically in denial, then you are probably likely to get a final warning at best or dismissal. If you came to me in the hearing, apologising and said you realised you had made an error of judgement that you had learnt your lesson and wasn't going to happen again, but there were other things going on in your life at the time,and didn't realise the impact your comment would have, I would look more favourably on you.It shows you accept you have done wrong and are unlikely to commit the offence in the future.

You need to do whatever suits you but I do wish you all the best going forward.

[stu007]

Hi

 

I do have to agree with circumhrgirl and as I pointed out in my own post irrespective of who new the facts after the DH it was not your Employer that made this known it was spread by word of mouth by other employees and the employee that was disciplined.

 

I would point out your lack of training but as an NHS employee you should already be aware of Confidentiality but in your defence you could argue that the other employees discussing such an issue on open Social Networking site could be seen as bring the organisation into disrepute as this was an internal matter not for public discussion.

[ellieh34]

Many thanks for all your comments. You are all very accurate and right - I simply should have known better. Dont fancy my chances! Many thanks again anyway - I am grateful for all your comments.

[ellieh34]

Dear circumhrgal, many thanks for your words of wisdom - I can totally see your perspective now, and indeed that of my employers - also, if i were merely part of the "chit chat" then I would not be in the position I am in today.

I fully intend to go to the DH, stating my case and hopefully show that I have had time to reflect and that I can see the error of my ways. Which is true, I understand now, and I am beyond mortified, that a slip of the tongue, misguided ignorance, or lack of judgement has led me to this situation now - my whole career down the pan due to a brief discussion - it is incredibly sad - and therefore but the grace of god go all of you - you truly think it will never happen to you - but it does - it has to me! A very hard lesson to learn, but one I will never forget - particularly thanks to your advise - wish my rep was that good!!! I cannot thank you enough.

Best wishes to you. x

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I wish you the very best of luck with this, please come back and tell us how you get on.

 

Fingers crossed, HB x