RBS - sent SAR and postal order back

[MARTIN3030]

They should be able to identify all accounts you have held with them,and it really should not be your obligation to furnish them with account numbers.

The main criteria is that your requests are specific ie that you are clear as to what you are asking for example;

 

A copy of all statements for current and/or savings accounts

A copy of all statements for all credit cards issued to me between xxx and xxx

 

etc etc.

 

They do have scope to refuse a request where the applicant has failed to satisfy them that they are the subject entitled to recieve the data.

 

Maybe you should have reminded them of a certain previous event.

[MARTIN3030]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?48237-Non-disclosure-imprisonment-threat-against-RBS-Data-Controller!

[Subliminal Sam]

Thanks Martin. I don't think RBS are trying hard at all. But I've got all the statements now - I found them in a box in the attic! Unless someone comes on here to advise me otherwise I think I'll just go for them with what I've got.

 

Hopefully someone will answer my question re Annual Interest Rate and then I'm nearly good to go.

 

PS I'd like to see all the beggars in jail!

[dx100uk]

receive gentleman not recieve.......

 

dx

[dx100uk]

fos running SOC yes.

 

as for int rate

that needs to be a yearly or not a monthly one

 

and i'd use the most recent one. for everything

 

dx

[MARTIN3030]

Site team member ims I am sure will help you on the interest questions.Hit the report button below to alert him once you are ready for totting up.

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Sam

 

There's a few conversion apps on the web, most are buried in commercial sites though

 

There's a link to one here....... uses a 12 cycle compound calc

 

http://www.makesenseofcards.com/mon2yr.html

 

I'm sure the site team will remove if its not a suitable link to leave up

 

Phil

[oleg]

receive gentleman not recieve.......

 

dx

 

gentlemen not gentleman if intended for both martin and sam and if sure that both are male

sir not gentleman if intended only for martin

excuse my absence of punctuation - writing on crap phone and partially sighted

forgive me sam for having interjected

[Subliminal Sam]

OK. I've got the spreadsheet as far as November 2002 at which point the Visa card number changes - which probably accounts for the initial confusion.

 

Would that be a new card issued?

I suppose it would be that.

 

They continue with another card number until the card is paid off and the account closed in February 2005.

The balance continues onto the new card statements.

 

So, is it two separate claims, two spreadsheets etc? Or do I quote both numbers and make one claim in total?

 

Also can anyone please advise what Annual Interest Rate I should put into the spreadsheet please? Once I have these questions answered I think I am ready to stick my claim in.

 

Many thanks

[MARTIN3030]

gentlemen not gentleman if intended for both martin and sam and if sure that both are male

sir not gentleman if intended only for martin

excuse my absence of punctuation - writing on crap phone and partially sighted

forgive me sam for having interjected

 

lol well I was male when I woke up this morning

[Subliminal Sam]

Hi

Can anyone advise what Annual Interest rate I should put into the spreadsheet please? Googling Barclaycard suggests around 18%. Will that be ok or is there a definitive figure?

Many thanks.

[dx100uk]

gentlemen not gentleman if intended for both martin and sam and if sure that both are male

sir not gentleman if intended only for martin

excuse my absence of punctuation - writing on crap phone and partially sighted

forgive me sam for having interjected

 

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

OK. I've got the spreadsheet as far as November 2002 at which point the Visa card number changes - which probably accounts for the initial confusion.

 

Would that be a new card issued?

I suppose it would be that.

 

They continue with another card number until the card is paid off and the account closed in February 2005.

The balance continues onto the new card statements.

 

So, is it two separate claims, two spreadsheets etc? Or do I quote both numbers and make one claim in total?

 

Also can anyone please advise what Annual Interest Rate I should put into the spreadsheet please? Once I have these questions answered I think I am ready to stick my claim in.

 

Many thanks

 

one claim

 

have you done the FOS CQ?

 

as for the APR

http://www.stoozing.com/mon2yr.htm

 

dx

[Subliminal Sam]

I haven't completed the FOS questionnaire yet, but I will do before I send the paperwork off.

 

With regards to the interest rate web link, how does that work? The monthly rate on the statements varies. Earliest ones show monthly interest rate of 0.242% while later ones are either 1.385% or 1.313%. (Most of them are 1.385%)

 

What figure do I put in for the calculation and do I want the annual rate compounded or the annual rate non-compounded equivalent for the spreadsheet?

 

Thanks.

[ims21]

Hi sam

 

You can work out the average of the monthly rate you were charged over the lifetime of the card and use that as the basis for your calculations.

 

When you have the average monthly rate, whack it into this spreadsheet to get the APR and it is this APR that you use in the main claim spreadsheet.

 

MonthlyToAPR.xls

[Subliminal Sam]

Thanks ims21. Very helpful.

[Subliminal Sam]

I decided to wait until I received a response to my resubmitted SAR.

 

I have just received the following reply today, dated 30 July.

 

Thank you for providing us with additional information to enable us to trace your account once held with us.

After thoroughly searching our records, we can confirm that we are unable to trace any documentation in relation to the above credit card account. We can only assume that this is due to the account having been terminated before our record retention period, beginning quarter four of 2001.

I am returning your letter and enclosures to you and trust my letter clarifies our position.

 

I have already told them that I have copies of statements relating to account 1234 from 2000 until Nov 2001, when the account number changes to 6789. By a happy coincidence they say that they have no records prior to Q4 2001! They have completely ignored my SAR in relation to account number 6789. I have all statements for that account from Dec 2002 until it was closed with a zero balance in February 2005. The spreadsheet suggests that they owe me over £1,600.00 in PPI. Is there any way I can get them for PPI prior to May 2001? I don't have any statements but the opening balance on the first statement I have shows the account to be over £3,000 so a considerable amount of PPI must have been paid prior to that date. I don't know when I opened the account.

 

So do I now just hit them with that claim and write off any sum prior to May 2001? Also is there a standard claim letter to accompany the FOS questionnaire and spreadsheet outlining my claim?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[Subliminal Sam]

Anyone?

[Mike_hawk]

I think you may be stuck, the problem is you could keep pushing them but the most you would be able to do would be sue them for compliance. If they state they don't have the data a court is unlikely to grant you any relief [esp given the age of the data].

 

May be worth one last try quoting s.35 of the DPA, but......... just can't see anything to progress matters beyond that

 

If you're going to claim on the PPI you may as well start the process now [assume FOS route first?], if any data does come to light for the earlier period whilst the FOS investigate you can of course adjust the quantum claimed.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Agreed data no longer exists, so claim what you can.

[Subliminal Sam]

OK. Thanks guys. I'll go for what I've got.

[Subliminal Sam]

I have finally received a reply from RBS, dated 3 December and they have rejected the claim. It's a really long letter but the gist of the rejection in the letter is given in italics below (all words taken from the "RBS Case Officer" letter to me dated 3 December).

 

During the course of my investigation I looked at all the available evidence that is relevant to your complaint. The following items or documents were reviewed as part of my investigation:

 

1. Credit Card Application Form
   
2. Policy Document
   
3. Credit Card Statements
   

Please find enclosed a copy of the above documents.

Credit Card Application Form

You signed this on 9 October 2000 to confirm that you wished to apply for the payment protection insurance policy.

Policy Document

This document explains how the policy works.It gives a full explanation of all the terms & conditions, meanings of the words and phrases used, eligibility, what is and isn't covered, benefits and features, how to make and change a claim and how to cancel the insurance. This was provided to confirm that you had applied for the payment protection insurance policy.

Credit Card Statements

These were issued monthly showing the premium for payment protection insurance and enclosed are two copies dated 24 September 2001 and 24 December 2004.

In relation to your specific complaint points:

• You can not remember being given any information about the PPI
  
• You do not think it was fully explained to you. In fact, you do not think it was explained to you at all.
  
• With the knowledge you now have you do not think the PPI was necessary or appropriate for you when you took out the credit card.
  

The policy was provided on a "non-advised" basis. This means that no recommendation was made as to whether it was suitable for you. Full information about the policy was given which allowed you to decide whether it was right for your needs both at the time of the sale and in the future.

This was a mailshot Credit Card Application and therefore there would have been no advisor present at the point of sale. You would have received a copy of the Policy Document which contained key information regarding the policy including details of the key benefits, features and significant limitations and exclusions of the policy. With the receipt of this document it is reasonable to assume that you should have been aware that the cover was in place and what the policy did and did not cover.

 

• You got the impression that you had more chance of getting the Credit Card if you took out the PPI.
  

The optional nature of the policy was evident in the Application Form as you have ticked the appropriate box next to the statement "For cover just tick this box" and signed the Application Form on 9 October 2000 to confirm that the details were correct. There is therefore no evidence that you were led to believe that the policy was compulsory or would have been needed in your application for credit. Furthermore the Policy Document outlined the cancellation rights which confirmed that you could cancel the policy within the first 30 days without any financial loss. After this time the policy could be cancelled at any time by giving 30 days notice in writing. This meant that if you were unhappy with the policy in any way or your circumstances changed, you were able to exercise this option.

 

Decision

Having carefully considered all the information available to me I am sorry to advise that I have been unable to uphold your concerns in this instance. The details of the policy were confirmed in Policy Document. The optional nature of the insurance and full details of the eligibility conditions, main benefits and exclusions involved were provided to inform you of your decision to apply for the policy. You therefore made a fully informed decision to proceed with the insurance.

 

The letter then goes on to suggest I take the matter up with FOS if I am not happy. He also states that he will review the case if I can provide any additional evidence.

 

So, where do I go from here? I am very annoyed about the way in which RBS are handling this. I am not happy that, despite telling me on more than one occasion, that they have no records of this account (please see my earlier posts) they have now produced my Application Form from 2000, as if by magic.

 

In addition, they have now found statements, that they previously could not find.

 

Most importantly, the Policy Document, which features heavily in the rejection letter above, is a photocopy of a fax which has been sent by "RBS BIS" to a 0117 number on 4 June 2010! The 0117 number is not a number that I recognise and is certainly not a fax number that I have ever owned. My name, signature, account number or any other item linking the Policy Document to me does not appear anywhere on the document. It is a general document, not addressed to anyone. I do not believe I have ever seen it, prior to receiving this copy with the rejection letter.

 

This has been a bit of a long and boring read, I know! But I would really appreciate your advice as to what I do next. These people should not be allowed to get away with this.

 

Thanks for any advice.

[Subliminal Sam]

Anyone help please?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Anyone help please?

 

 

SORRY that no one's been around over the weekend the guys will look in asap.

[ims21]

You can challenge the lender yourself.

 

Have a read of Appendix 1 of the FSA handbook as there will be useful information in there which you can use in your challenge.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?305682-FSA-Handbook

 

Here are two bits to get you started

 

3.3.5 G The firm should not reject a complainant’s account of events solely on the basis

that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.

 

3.3.6 G The firm should not reject a complaint because the complainant failed to exercise

the right to cancel the policy

 

 

Also ask them to put in writing why they failed to supply information under the requirements of the DPA and on what principle they chose to withhold it from you. Tell them that you require this written explanation as it will be forming part of your complaint to the ICO and possible other action as well.