local authority high charge for simple work on door

[Maroc]

Hi everyone, just joining for the first time and looking for some help or advice.

I am in a dispute with haringey council over their costs to replace the communal door on the entrance to my block of flats. I work in the construction industry myself and know only to well the work involved and costs for these works., this is very basic type work, just replacing old with new, no major construction work involved.

 

I have contacted the companies that will be supplying both the steel door and frame, and also the new entry phone system and received quotes for supply and fit one steel door and frame £2,600. supply one entryfone system £866.00 plus the cost for connecting the entry phone to six flats. I would estimate a total of approximately £4000.00

 

The council are replacing doors in eleven different estates in the area and will be able to negotiate a much better price on a bulk buy deal rather than the quote I received for just one door & entryphone.

there is seven communal doors in total in my block which access 42 flats, each communal door accesses 6 flats and the council are suggesting it will cost £68,222.00 to replace seven doors, absolutely insane, thats almost £10,000.00 for each door, compare this against my own very generous estimate of £4000

 

I already pay £1100.00 per year in service charges and my argument was, why dont the council have a reserve fund for this type of work and if not where is my service charges been spent because they are certainly not been spent on the estate. I have since found out that 98% of the tenants in the block are council and they dont pay for these new doors or service charges therefore the council are footing the bill and are targeting the private leasholder like myself with these extortionate charges.

 

I do intend to fight these extortionate charges somehow and would appreciate a little help or advice

 

Regards

 

M.Harley

[Conniff]

Are you saying that your share of these doors is £4,000 ? that's not clear.

 

Get yourself a firm quote on paper and you or the company you work for also do a firm on paper quote, then you will have something to use in a fight.

 

You will have a local newpaper who love this sort of thing.

[stu007]

Hi Maroc

 

Are you a Tenant or Owner in a Flat?

 

This does raise a few issues that the only way to resolve this would be to write to them (recorded deliver always keep a paper trail) and request proof as follows:

 

1. You require a full breakdown of your service charges for your property with the reason for each service charge and cost.

2. You require a copy of the Tendering process for the Communal Door Replacement.

3. Was the Tender accepted to carry out the Communal Door Replacement the Highest Tender?

3. You require a copy of the Boards Minutes on the acceptance of the Tender for the Communal Door Replacement. (this should be recorded in the minutes as due to the high costs it would need the either the Finance and Audit Committes or Boards approval)

4. Why have the costs for the Communal Door Replacement not been factored into the Business Plan?

 

Also are you saying that these costs are going to be added as a "Service Charge"?

Edited May 19, 2012 by stu007

[citizenB]

Are you saying that your share of these doors is £4,000 ? that's not clear.

 

Get yourself a firm quote on paper and you or the company you work for also do a firm on paper quote, then you will have something to use in a fight.

 

You will have a local newpaper who love this sort of thing.

 

Conniff, no.. what is being said is that the OP has done his own checking for quotes and would be able to replace a door at £4,000 - however with all their buying power, the council have come up with a quote for £10,000 each door.

[Conniff]

It seems as if there is some payment wanted by the council,

the council are footing the bill and are targeting the private leasholder like myself with these extortionate charges.

 

Perhaps it's the way I read it but that seems to say on top of the present service charge.

[Surfer01]

Our housing association tried the same with us and I raised a hell of a stink also using other quotes as a source and eventually the charge got dropped by at least 50%.

[assisted blonde]

How much if anything are you personally expected to pay towards the cost?

[stu007]

Hi

 

Have to say that if they are trying to add this as a Service Charge then they would have to justify this to all tenants and the other issue if they are is:

 

That if this is an "Additional Service Charge" to the Tenants concerned then they had a RIGHT to be Consulted on this charge before the commencement of any tendering process/work commencement so that the tenants could either agree to this work/additional service charge or not.

 

I am concerned that if this is an additional service charge for the following reasons:

 

1. This is an improvement to the housing association buildings not individual properties which may be needed to meet National Standards and possibly fire regulations of the buildings.

 

2. That these costs should have already been Budgeted for in the Housing Associations Business Plan.

 

3. Which Regulation or Act are they using to add these costs as a Service Charge because from what the OP states this is NOT a Service Charge.

 

The difference would be if the OP was not a Tenant but actually an Owner of the Flat in the building then they would have to pay there share of these costs for this work.

[Maroc]

Hi Stu007

 

Thanks to you and everyone else who replied, Much appreciated

 

Sorry I didn't make a number of things clear,

I do own the property and my proportion of the costs will be £1,624.35 X 42 = £68,222.70

there is 42 flats in the block, I believe there is only one other private owner in the block and the rest of the flats are council. The costs for these doors are separate from my service charges. I have been corresponding with the council by email since last november and also had a meeting with them last month, but they just keep repeating themselves saying these costs are reasonable and if i dont agree i can take my case to a valuation tribunal,

The tender for the works was the lowest or so they say. With regard to your No4, costs being factored into the business plan, sorry, I'm not sure what you mean, the council have told me they do not have a reserve fund for these costs.

[stu007]

Hi Maroc

 

Thanks for clarifying those points on looking at there website it looks like its Homes for Haringey that you should actually be dealing with on this issue as this is from there website:

 

Homes For Haringey

 

We are the Arms Length Management Organisation (ALMO) set up by Haringey Council, with the support of residents, to manage over 21,000 tenanted and leasehold homes. Owned and monitored by Haringey Council, our mission is to work with residents to provide quality housing services and decent homes.

 

We are run by a Board made up of residents, councillors and independent experts.

 

It looks like you are classed as a "Leaseholder" under there home ownership.

 

A lease is a legal agreement between you (the leaseholder) and the council (the landlord), who normally own the freehold of the land on which your property stands. Haringey Council still owns the land and the building in which your property is situated. Homes for Haringey manages the day to day services and carries out work where necessary.

 

The lease is the main document which sets out the responsibilities of both the landlord and the leaseholder.

 

There are two main types of lease, depending on when you bought the property. These are:

 

leases relating to properties sold before 1 April 1990

• leases relating to properties sold since 1 April 1990.
  

The main differences between them are the formulas we use to calculate your service charges and your liability for the cost of improvement work.

 

The lease also:

 

Defines your property and the block/estate it forms part of.

• Allows you to occupy the flat for a fixed number of years.
  
• Places certain conditions on its use & occupation.
  
• Requires us to manage and maintain the outside of the block, the structure and communal areas.
  
• Requires you to pay a share of our costs in providing services and carrying out work to the block your flat is in and the grounds and estate around it (‘service charges’).
  
• Makes you responsible for the internal decoration and repair of your flat.
  

You can request a copy of your lease from your mortgage lender, solicitor or the Home Ownership team. There is a charge of £25 for this service. However you can download a copy of the standard lease document from this website.

 

This is the link to that part on there website: http://www.homesforharingey.org/almo/information_for_leaseholders/your_lease-2.htm

 

I would download and have a good read of the following:

 

* "Standard Lease Document".

* "Lease Holders Charter".

 

This info is also from there website:

 

Consultation

 

Haringey is committed to consulting with residents at all stages of a major works project. The Project Management team and the Home Ownership team carry out consultation in various ways. Consultation will range from meetings on site, to meetings with contractors, to newsletters.

 

Haringey also has a legal duty to consult leaseholders. The Home Ownership team carries this out. Under section 20 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (amended by the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002) we must consult you whenever we propose to carry out work that will cost you over £250. For further information see the section on Major Works Consultation.

 

Paying for major works

 

Your lease sets out your responsibility to contribute towards the landlords’ costs of carrying out necessary repairs and also the formula we use to calculate these costs. We will provide you with an estimate in a notice before any work is commenced. The way we work out the estimate in the notice and the bill for the work is the same way as we work out all service charges. You will now recieve your bill in advance to give you more time to pay. We acknowledge that paying for major works bills can be a significant financial strain and we offer various payment options to help you to pay.