ET hearing costs

[sam1888]

Does anyone know if you have a pre-hearing at an ET, I'm the claimant, how likely and how much risk if there of getting the other sides costs hit to me?

 

Does anyone have experience on just how fair and reasonable judges are?

[sam1888]

Has anyone won a sex discrimination claim? What level and how much proof is required to get a guilty verdict by an ET?

[assisted blonde]

Depends on the situation , a bit more info would be helpful.

[Browncow]

Does anyone know if you have a pre-hearing at an ET, I'm the claimant, how likely and how much risk if there of getting the other sides costs hit to me?

 

Does anyone have experience on just how fair and reasonable judges are?

There will only be a Pre -hearing if one of the parties requests it, otherwise there will be a Case Management Discussion and then the full hearing.

 

It seems to be about 50/50 with the judges according to what I see on these boards.

[sam1888]

There will only be a Pre -hearing if one of the parties requests it, otherwise there will be a Case Management Discussion and then the full hearing.

 

It seems to be about 50/50 with the judges according to what I see on these boards.

 

 

The Judge in my CMD has requested it. It's the part about costs I am concerned about. How can I even go to a PHR when I may risk the other sides costs? I think I have to pull out because I can't risk incurring the company's costs. How is this justice? !!

Edited May 12, 2012 by sam1888

[sam1888]

Hi,

 

I have a case scheduled for a PHR, the Judge has put in a line about costs may be considered. Can anyone/individual risk going to a PHR when such a line is in the order? Is it sensible to risk it, or is that the way a Judge is warning you (i.e. me) off already? Does anyone have experience of this?

[professional1964]

What was the Judge's reason for asking for a Pre Hearing Review?

[lbruk]

costs are really only imposed if you have not followed the tribunals instructions or have acted unreasonably with your employer, generally costs are not incurred by the claimant.

[sam1888]

What was the Judge's reason for asking for a Pre Hearing Review?

 

Whether it has reasonable chance of success.... the other side is a not for profit (i.e. non-commercial) company.

[sam1888]

I was due to go to a PHR, but under extreme pressure I have caved in and withdrawn, within 10 minutes I tried to contact the ET to make the claim live again, does anyone know whether you can or what I could do please?

[professional1964]

Hopefully somebody on here will be able to give you some good legal advice.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've removed the duplicate posts from your other thread. Please continue to use this one.

 

You say you were under extreme pressure, can you tell us who from please?

 

My best, HB

[sam1888]

Hello there.

 

I've removed the duplicate posts from your other thread. Please continue to use this one.

 

You say you were under extreme pressure, can you tell us who from please?

 

My best, HB

 

[i thought the one with the subject header "please read" would be more helpful to catch peoples attention to assist me, whichever you feel is best.]

 

Answer to your question: the other side's lawyer said to me that I had until 1pm (about 10-15 mins) to write emailing it to the ET to withdraw and cc them or they would look to seek costs. So I was very pressured yes. It's not right, especially as a layperson representing myself to be pressured that way. He basically said he needed to shortly instruct counsel and so start incurring more costs and so I had to decide.

 

Actually later that evening, 9.30pm, they also then mailed me saying, "you withdraw your claim and we are checking with our client whether to pursue you for costs"!!! Implying I had just withdrawn it separately.

 

But I know it's the wrong decision, I just caved under the pressure essentially. Any suggestions as to what I should do, as at the moment not sure what to do for the best. :?

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I can see why you caved in; they normally try this sort of thing much earlier, from what we've seen.

 

Do you have evidence of this? I'm not sure if it helps or not, but was wondering if you can prove how they acted to get you to back out if it helps your cause.

 

You haven't had many replies either because not many people are around right now [weekends are especially quiet] and also because it's a specialist question and not many people are likely to know the answer. I'll try to get you some help.

 

HB

[sam1888]

Ah I see, quiet weekends and yes it's pretty specific.

 

I have lots of emails, though they had been extending a deadline as I wasnt sure. And an acas woman was involved but then I did within 10 mins write to the ET to say to reactivate it, she knows and told me I paniced at that moment due to the deadline. But then on seeing the withdrawn email the ACAS lady then promptly said she can't do anything at all as I no longer have a live claim, hence why I wrote to the ET to try to make it live. The ET fired back and email citing Khan vs Heywood, though that is quite different as he seems to have withdrawn and then later got other legal advice and then wanted to reactivate it.

 

Mine is that of a layperson, alone, under pressure, caved in. Nothing to do with obtaining different advice. I was of course scared of trying to second guess the judge putting the costs reference on the order.

 

The emails showing that are with subject header without prejudice though, so I thought they couldnt be used, but here you have to to get at the truth.

[honeybee13]

Thank for that. I'll have a think about the thread title and see if I can make it more descriptive of what's gone on. If you have any thoughts, please post them up too.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Sam, have a look at your inbox please. HB

[madari]

Hi

You must write to the employment tribunal ASAP and explain to them in you letter that as you are an `unrepresented claimant and without the benefit of legal advice you were subjected to pressure from the other side to withdraw your claim and you did so under duress and would like your claim to be reinstated in the intrest of justice.

 

Also in your letter request for a PHR so that the matter can be resolved in an open court.

 

Any delay in writing to the ET will make matters very difficult for you, you must act fast.

 

Dont let them get away with it ....the costs threat is an idle threat.

 

Good luck

[sam1888]

Hi

You must write to the employment tribunal ASAP and explain to them in you letter that as you are an `unrepresented claimant and without the benefit of legal advice you were subjected to pressure from the other side to withdraw your claim and you did so under duress and would like your claim to be reinstated in the intrest of justice.

 

Also in your letter request for a PHR so that the matter can be resolved in an open court.

 

Any delay in writing to the ET will make matters very difficult for you, you must act fast.

 

Dont let them get away with it ....the costs threat is an idle threat.

 

Good luck

 

Hi,

 

It was the other side making that cost threat, but also the Judge had already requested a PHR, and himself put in a costs threat.

[madari]

Hi

 

Dont worry about the costs threat, just write to the Et and as I have suggested.I must stress do this ASAP!!!

[madari]

I must stress that you MUST write to the ET and request a PHR immediately....you have nothing more to lose.

 

Further I cannot PM you as your box is full

 

M

[sam1888]

Cleared inbox now.

[becky2585]

This is a difficult one, unfortunately.

 

Technically speaking, a withdrawal alone is usually not sufficient, there must also be notification that proceedings have been dismissed, which doesn't appear to have happened here. However, a dismissal usually follows the event of a withdrawal, so the process has technically been started.

 

What was the exact wording used to stipulate a withdrawal?

 

It may well be possible for the ET to list a further PHR, but that would be on the basis of determining whether your claim had, in fact, been withdrawn.

 

In Khan, the Claimant withdrew his claim and instructed new solicitors and tried to base a new claim on substantially the same facts, which isn't the case here. There may be grounds to appeal and to allow the claim to continue, but I do think that you could be putting yourself at risk of a costs award against you if they are dismissed at any forthcoming PHR.

 

Looking at a literal wording of Rule 25...

 

Right to withdraw proceedings

 

25.—(1) A claimant may withdraw all or part of his claim at any time – this may be done either orally at a hearing or in writing in accordance with paragraph (2).

(2) To withdraw a claim or part of one in writing the claimant must inform the Employment Tribunal Office of the claim or the parts of it which are to be withdrawn. Where there is more than one respondent the notification must specify against which respondents the claim is being withdrawn.

(3) The Secretary shall inform all other parties of the withdrawal. Withdrawal takes effect on the date on which the Employment Tribunal Office (in the case of written notifications) or the tribunal (in the case of oral notification) receives notice of it and where the whole claim is withdrawn, subject to paragraph (4), proceedings are brought to an end against the relevant respondent on that date. Withdrawal does not affect proceedings as to costs, preparation time or wasted costs.

(4) Where a claim has been withdrawn, a respondent may make an application to have the proceedings against him dismissed. Such an application must be made by the respondent in writing to the Employment Tribunal Office within 28 days of the notice of the withdrawal being sent to the respondent. If the respondent’s application is granted and the proceedings are dismissed those proceedings cannot be continued by the claimant (unless the decision to dismiss is successfully reviewed or appealed).

(5) The time limit in paragraph (4) may be extended by a chairman if he considers it just and equitable to do so.

 

...you could have an argument that the claim shouldn't be withdrawn if the wording of your withdrawal doesn't meet the requirements. I've never come across this situation before, so I can't comment on the merits, unfortunately. My gut feeling though, reading the case law, is that it's not going to be possible.

Edited May 21, 2012 by becky2585

[sam1888]

Hi

 

What do you mean by: "What was the exact wording used to stipulate a withdrawal?"

 

My ET letter says:

 

Employment Judge X has considered the claimants email dated x May 2012, timed at 13.00 in which she stated:

 

".... quotes me saying I am writing to withdraw my claim"

 

On the court of appeal authority of Khan v Heywood &.... , an Employment Tribunal does not have jurisdiction to set aside a notice of withdrawal of a claim.

 

In those circumstances the claim has been withdrawn and no later application to set aside the withdrawl can be considered by the tribunal."

[becky2585]

Then unfortunately, that probably is the case. It's such a shame, and it doesn't seem fair, but all the ET is allowed to do is apply the law.