Robeersway and cap1 debt

[May Fly]

My hubby has been contacted by a DCA for a debt he doesn't recognise. He did have a CC with the company mentioned by the DCA, but it was paid off a long time ago, and the account number given isn't his - he checked his old statements. In any case, his account was closed at least 7 years ago.

 

I can knock out a prove it letter, and also mention it would be statue barred anyway, even if it was his, along with complaints to the ICO, OFT (via consumer direct or whoever it is) and FSO but as they were told the account wasn't his the first time they contacted him a few months ago, and have now written twice within 2 weeks, and phoned the house today, I wondered if there was an additional weapon.

 

I seem to remember some time ago on this site that someone threatened a DCA with 'admin charges' if they continued to write to him with no just cause. I also seem to remember that the cagger, (or someone else) was told by a judge in a court case, that he couldn't claim what he attempted to do (for dealing with the DCA letters), but if he has used a different form of words, then he would have been allowed to. Does anyone have any more info? It was something like not being able to charge for admin, but being allowed to charge for something else, just a form of words really.

 

In short, if a DCA continues to contact him, is there any way he can charge them for dealing with their correspondence? He isn't daunted by having to lodge court papers, or appear in court, as long as he has a legal basis for doing so.

[unclebulgaria67]

You have no contract with the DCA, so I don't know what claim he could bring against them.

 

People have invoiced DCA's for small amounts to cover their costs and someone recently posted to say that they received a cheque.

 

Suggest that he writes for the attention of the DCA's compliance manager and advises them they are chasing for a card debt, that he has never had. He should warn them that if they continue to write he will make a complaint to the FOS, OFT and Trading standards.

[May Fly]

yes, as I said, I can knock out the usual letters for SB debt and to OFT etc, but we all know how they tend to ignore the facts, and if the 'debt' is passed to another DCA, the whole cycle could start again, and regardless of what they are doing wrong, the whole bunch of so called regulators are pretty unimpressive at taking effective and timely action.

 

I am sure I read some time ago of a cagger who, as I said, did counter-claim against a DCA and was unsuccesful only because of his choice of words/what he was charging for. Nevertheless,

 

People have invoiced DCA's for small amounts to cover their costs and someone recently posted to say that they received a cheque

.

 

could be useful, who was it, anyone know?

[unclebulgaria67]

This was the thread, I was thinking of.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?344319-Complaining-when-harassed-by-a-DCA

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Before sending anything a little more

information would help, which DCA

is chasing this and who is the original

creditor?

[May Fly]

thanks uncleB

Cheers guys. I think it's worth highlighting that I claimed for "Undue distress" as advised in a previous CAG thread, where the judge suggested that it would be the best way forward in a compensation claim, rather than emphasising costs.

 

So thanks to the original CAG poster (sorry, can't remember who that was now).

maybe that's what I was thinking of... it's just impossible to find the original.

 

The dca is robbersway, and the lender was Cap1, but he is convinced the debt was settled a loooong time ago - he thinks at least 10, and prob nearer 12 years. Turns out the last time they contacted him was 2 years ago (not a few months as I thought, and he dug out an old statement that showed the account number the robbers has was wrong. He thinks he also phoned Cap1 who couldn't help him as there was no record of his account as it was so old.

 

No idea how RW has dreamt up this debt, and maybe its for someone with a similar name, but it seems the letters just started off attempting to collect rather than fishing for info first.

 

He gets a monthly update of his credit file. It was clean 2 years ago and there hasn't been any new entries made on it since, hence there are no defaults.

 

Although RW may be a lightweight pre-school bottom feeder, we want this killing for ever, and not being passed to someone else and not being put on the back burner and RW having another try in a few months time.

 

The phone is ex-directory and only 2 years old, so they must have got the number from his credit file rather than from the account being chased, same for the address. He's now worried in case they call him at work (work number is probably on the credit file as well) as it would damage his reputation at work

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Phone numbers are not seen on CRA files,

so no worries there.

 

I suggest sending the following to RWs compliance manager.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Ref:xxxxxxxxxxx

 

I write in regard to your correspondence about

the debt for £xxxxxx which you allege is owed by

me, take note I do not acknowledge any debt to

you or any company you claim to represent.

 

I have no knowledge of any such debt and have

taken advice and researched this matters and have

concluded and such alleged debt is Statute Barred

I will therefore not be making any payment or offer

of payment now or in the future.

 

You WILL therefore cease to process any data you

hold on me and delete it from your records.

 

You WILL NOT make any further contact in amy form

at my address and you WILL NOT telephone me.

 

I am fully aware of the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection

2003/2011 and will not hesitate to make a complaint about

this matter.

 

Send RD.

[May Fly]

Well, if phone numbers are not seen on CRA files, they must be clairvoyant or something. The phone number is ex directory and new since the last time they contacted him, so even if he was naive enough to call them and not withhold the number, the number has changed since.

 

If the number is ex-directory, and not reported on the CRA files, then how could they get this new number? Even if we change the number, they may be able to get the new one. They called again this morning, and were left waiting.... but for sure they will call again, hence the desire to hit them in the pocket for the problems they're causing. The letter you propose is pretty much what is being drafted but we know how reluctant they are to follow the law and guidelines.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There are many ways that a phone number

can be trac quickll and easily.

 

Send the letter off

My guess is you will have problems ''hitting them in the pocket''

as the OFT Guidance on Statute Barred debt states that the debtor

must inform the creditor/DCA that the debt is SB and they will not

be paying, so if if this has not been done in writting the DCA is at

liberty to chase the debt.

[daverules]

Yes it seems irrelevant if the phone number is ex-directory, I have been contacted by phone by a DCA

and the number is not even mine, it belongs to and was registered by the home owner, also ex-directory

but they still associate it with the address and me...seems they have their ways to obtain the info.

[May Fly]

would anyone care to shed light on how a number can be traced to its owner (rather than to a previous resident of the same house) so that he same thing won't happen again (we're thinking of changing the number), and so lessons can be learned?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I92.Com, for one, google any of the sites such as who phones me,

any application for credit, mail order, competition on line survey and

many more ways exist, all the marketing data is sold to many users.

I seriously doubt that you will ever stop it.

[May Fly]

thanks for your suggestions but its difficult to see how they apply. Who calls me works the other way round - you put a number in and get other's opinions about who the number belongs to. I put the house number in out of interest and found nothing. He doesn't do competitions or surveys of any kind, the phone provider doesn't sell phone numbers, the number is registered for TPS, and if credit companies don't add the number to the CRA file, then I can't see how they can spread the number. The only application for credit was for a car loan and credit card last year, both of which are on one of the credit files he got (the other had NOTHING which shows it was a waste of money and time), but there wasn't any phone number. The only that may be relevant is if the credit companies sold his details privately - I'm always telling him to opt out of marketing stuff even though we're opted in to the mail preference service.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The trouble with the preference services is that

it only works with suppliers/merchants etc., who

participate in the schemes.

 

I have a posts code identifier for work purposes as

to most compainies this will identify any property and

details regarding the residents and eg on electoral

roll and contact details.

[May Fly]

Yes, the preference services aren't perfect, but we get very little junk mail, virtually none in fact, unless you count flyers for 'local' takeaways etc.

 

I know databases of personal details exists, but they can only contain the info about a person that is available to them. As the house number is ex directory and the phone company don't sell customer details, then someone who has received his phone number must have passed it on - the number is new to us in a new address, so it hasn't followed us here, and they asked for him by name, so know the number belongs to him, and as they wrote to him, they can match the phone and house. The problem is WHO passed the number? The same people will also have his works number and probably his works address if they are loan or credit companies.

 

The number wasn't on the 2 credit files he checked, but a search made by the robbers was - uncategorised which I think means it won't be seen by other people searching the file (is that correct?). So they've obviously found a match for someone using his initial and surname, not full name and middle initial, and matched him with the previous address where they wrote, and obviously feel they have the right person. Annoying thing is, the file showed no defaults, CCJs, and only the present 2 sources of credit. Even the "Gone Away Information Network" section of the file was blank so they have good reason to believe even the debt is not his or it is statute barred.... but still the **** start their harrassment.

 

Thing is, is it worthwhile stating this in the letter or just tell them the debt isn't his or is statute barred?

[May Fly]

by the way, I did read the OFT guidance, as it was updated late last year, and yes, they do say that in their opinion statute barred debts still exist and it is incumbent on the person to tell the company they will not be paying any statute barred debt. That much is easy to follow, but why it is like that seems strange because it leaves the way open for continued harassment. In Scotland, the OFTs stance is that a debt becomes non-existent when statute barred.

 

Thing is, if this debt is SB, how do we stop RW from passing the info to someone else for them to try their hand? Same if it isn't his debt in the first place. If the debt isn't his, they don't have the correct consent to process the data and are breaching OFT guidelines by contact him..... but the ICO takes 6 months to do anything, and usually it's underwhelming in my experience. But if the debt was his, and is now SB (he is adamant it isn't his anyway) how do we stop them simply passing the info to another lowlife bottom feeder?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Unrecorded and T2 searches have no ipacrt.

 

As to RW send the follopwing to their Compliance Mananger./

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Ref:xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

 

I write in regard to your correspondence received on xxxxx

I have no knowledge of any such debt for xxxx xxxx which

you allege is owed by me, and I do not acknowledge any liability

to RW or any company you may claim to represent.

 

From research and advice received I have concluded that it would

now be Statute Barred, I will not now or in the future make any payment

or offer of payment on a debt that is not mine.

 

You will therefore remove and cease to process all data you hold on me,

you wil not pass my details and telephone numbers to any third party.

 

I am fully aware of the OFT Guidance On Debt collection 2003/2011 and

will not hesitate to make a complaint to the OFT regarding your companies

conduct.

 

Send it RD.

[Zonker]

'In Scotland, the OFTs stance is that a debt becomes non-existent when statute barred.'

 

It is in fact Scots Law. 5 years and the debt is extinguished (ceases to exist.) Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 section 6

[May Fly]

'In Scotland, the OFTs stance is that a debt becomes non-existent when statute barred.'

 

It is in fact Scots Law. 5 years and the debt is extinguished (ceases to exist.) Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 section 6

 

Yes I know it is. I paraphrased the OFT document which makes it clear the debt is not recoverable when SB.

 

but as we don't live in Scotland and have never had any debts or contracts written under, or subject to Scottish Law., it is a moot point