RBoS - to court soon I hope

[Candice]

Hey all,

 

Firstly I am a newbie who saw you at MoneySavingExpert.com and I think what you're doing is great work I am writing the letter to my bank as we speak to reclaim £2,623.13!!!

 

I followed all the instructions, read the FAQ's and have had a nose about but I can't find anywhere why the limit is 6 years and not, say 8 or 5. Can someone explain to me where this comes from please as I'd like to put this in my letter to the bank.

 

Unfortunately I found the template in the library to be, in my humble opinion, meek and amateur when faced with a mamoth corporation like a bank so using my experience of writing letters to make the whole thing a lot more legal and look much more important and professional. I'd like to be able to cite some more information to show them I know my facts [i'll post it in the library upon completion if that's ok, in case others might like to use it as a template for theirs].

 

So yeah, why 6 years?

 

Cheers,

Candice

[Candice]

Cheers Dave, that's great.

 

BTW the site keeps giving me SQL connection errors. It looks like you need to up the connection limits when starting the MySQL daemon with command line parameters (or a my.cnf file) or change it from mysql_connect to mysql_pconnect and decrease the lifespan of your Apache child processes. Just a guess though as you use Windows and I don't know too much about hosting on Windows. Good luck with it

[Candice]

Hi Dave,

 

I think the work you're doing here is great and that with Martin Lewis being involved you're bound to receive a lot more traffic now so I'd love to do anything I can to help but unfortunately I know lots about PHP/MySQL on Apache and UNIX and not IIS and Windows

 

The difference between _connect and _pconnect is whether the connection is persistent (ie, it's not closed after a page request but the MySQL connection is bound to the webserver child process and is only closed when that dies). There is a *HUGE* overhead in connecting to the database, including when it's on another machine, so typically _pconnect will reduce the CPU and bandwidth usage and make the whole thing work smoother on the whole.

 

It looks like your increased traffic is pushing the connection limit over the allowed threshold with _connect (which will connect the number of times that you have active visitors requesting pages). With _pconnect your maximum connections will be determined by the number of IIS child processes running, so reducing this will solve the PHP->MySQL connection problem but then you may get a new error of "Server too busy" as there's not enough child processes to deal with your traffic.

 

You should probably see if there's an IIS expert that can help you, unless you're interested in switching to something with a lot more beef (Apache - which can also run on Windows) and/or a Linux/UNIX environment for your whole hosting platform which wil give you much more power, stability and security.

 

I realy hope you can get it sorted because, as I said, I think this project is really good.

 

P.S., I have finished my letter to the bank and would be interested in your thoughts on it, it's based on the library template but sexed up with more legalese and written to cover more than one account (as I've had 3 accounts I with my bank within the 6 year period). It's a word .doc.

[Candice]

Err sure lol.

 

Now someone tell me how to upload a file

[Candice]

Request for Repayment of Charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to request a full and immediate refund of all charges applied to all of my accounts held with you within the last six years.

 

As you may be aware, penalty clauses in contracts in English and Scottish law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party. Under the 1977 Unfair Terms (contracts) Act, the sheer fact that all banks make these charges makes this a breach of the Act. This is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) and possibly the Sales of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1982.

 

Such charges levied against my account include, but are not limited to, direct debit refusals, standing order refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and others. I am reclaiming these charges on all of the accounts that are or have been operational with you for six years in to the past from the date of this letter, as stipulated by the statutes of Limitation Act 1980.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contracts which you agreed to at the time that I opened my accounts. It is an implied term of the contracts that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. The charges applied to my account are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer Regulations.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I have calculated that from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges, from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges and from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges. Therefore I have calculated that in total on all my accounts in the last six years that you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges.

 

I hope that you will enter in to a sincere dialogue with me in an attempt to resolve this matter satisfactorily as quickly and efficiently as possible. I am giving you 14 days to contact me in writing, unconditionally accepting my request in principal and informing me of the date by which I can expect to receive the total payment owed.

 

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days to reflect on your position and to allow you to fully investigate the laws, statutes and regulations which you have broken. I would advise that although I am willing for you to resolve this issue directly with me at this time, failure to resolve it satisfactorily within the most gracious time periods I have allotted will result in the commencement of a claim at the expiry of the second deadline. At this point I shall also be additionally claiming to recover interest and expenses incurred.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[Name]

[Candice]

Hi guys, yes thanks comments received most warmly. I am amending my letter now and will post the update when done. If you think it'd do the job then tomorrow morning I intend to hand deliver it to my bank manager and send it recorded postage also. That should cover my bases.

 

You may like to know that recently on MoneySavingExpert.com forums there was a poll for best joke, and this won:

Why did the Irish name their currency the 'punt'? Because it rhymes with 'bank manager'

[Candice]

Yes I shall send it special delivery then but I also want to put it in someone's hand so there's no possibility at all they can say they haven't received it, I'll even try and get them to give me a receipt that they've accepted my letter while I'm in there and if I don't get it, will undoubtedly do what I'm good at and cause a fuss and lot of embarassement and commotion for them. Well, you've got to really

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to request a full and immediate refund of all charges applied to all of my accounts held with you within the last six years.

 

As you are undoubtedly aware, penalty clauses in contracts in English and Scottish law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party. Under the 1977 Unfair Terms (contracts) Act, the sheer fact that all banks make these charges makes this a breach of the Act. This is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) and possibly the Sales of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1982.

 

Such charges levied against my account include, but are not limited to, direct debit refusals, standing order refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and others. I am reclaiming these charges on all of the accounts that are or have been operational with you for six years in to the past from the date of this letter, as stipulated by the statutes of Limitation Act 1980.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contracts which you agreed to at the time that I opened my accounts. It is an implied term of the contracts that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. The charges applied to my account are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer Regulations.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I have calculated that from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges, from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges and from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges. Therefore I have calculated that in total on all my accounts in the last six years that you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges.

 

I hope that you will enter in to a sincere dialogue with me in an attempt to resolve this matter satisfactorily as quickly and efficiently as possible. I am giving you 14 days to contact me in writing, unconditionally accepting my request in principal and I expect the total payment to be received before the end of this period.

 

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I will begin commencement of a claim at the expiry of the deadline. At this point I shall also be additionally claiming to recover interest and expenses incurred.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[Name]

 

*Candice, I hope you won't mind, I've reformatted your posts so that they won't take so much space*

[Candice]

That's a top point Richard, thanks for that

[Candice]

The 2-week deadline for RBS to respond to my request to repay the £2,011 owed to me has now expired. 2 weeks on, and 2 letters later, it seems as though they've totally ignored me. Naturally, tomorrow sees the start of my legal action against them when I begin my claim.

 

The good news, I suppose, is that I can now add the interest to my claim bringing it up to £2,630. Apart from the £50 I will reclaim in expenses, the cost of all this so far is 8 hours of my time and £3. Not bad really

 

I'll keep you all posted

[Candice]

Yes of course I won't forget. I used the standard PDF template from http://www.bankchargeshell.co.uk as the basis for my claim, but I had to reword is slightly because I am reclaiming charges on 3 accounts.

 

I would be interested in anybodies comments.

 

Cheers

 

--- 8

 

The claimant held 3 bank accounts with the defendant which were open within the time period of 8th March 2000 to 8th March 2006. Account xxxxxxxx (now closed), account xxxxxxxx (now closed) and account xxxxxxxx.

 

Between 8th March 2000 and 8th March 2006, the defendant made various deductions from the accounts in respect of: ‘referral charge’ (levied monthly when the account debit balance exceeded the specified overdraft limit); ‘unpaid item(s)’ (levied if a direct debit or standing order payment was returned unpaid because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded); 'card misuse' (levied if a cheque payment was returned unpaid because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded).

 

If the defendant is able to establish that the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges, the claimant will contend that they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than being liquidated damages clauses.

 

The claimant claims from the defendant a sum equivalent to the total amount unlawfully debited to the claimant’s accounts during the above mentioned period, being £2,011.00.

 

The claimant further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, being the sum of £618.76.

 

The claimant further claims the court fee of £[will find out when I submit my claim if this looks ok].

[Candice]

Scrap that, just seen how stupidly small the textarea is :-| Do they expect that to be useful at all? I managed to condense it all down to this:

 

"The claimant held 3 bank accounts (xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx and xxxxxx) with the defendant, open between 8/3/2000 - 8/3/2006.

 

During this time the defendant made various deductions in respect of: 'referral charge', 'unpaid item' and 'card misuse' (levied if a direct debit, standing order or cheque was returned unpaid, or because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded).

 

If the defendant establishes the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges, the claimant will contend they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than liquidated damages clauses.

 

The claimant claims the total amount unlawfully charged during this period, of £2011. The claimant further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% p/a, of £618.76."

 

The task of compressing it all without losing content was harder than I could possible describe lol. Damn moneyclaim

[Candice]

Hi all,

 

I'm claiming against RBoS. The claim has been served and acknowledged, and they intent to fully defend the claim.

 

I'm claiming £2,011 + interest £618.76. Total: 2,629.76. Court fees is £120.

 

First one versus RBoS or so it would appear?? I really hope I get to go to court. The lady who filed the acknowledgement of service is Mrs Carol Stickland. Her position is "Litigation Officer", her email is [email protected], her phone number is 020 7714 4448 and fax number is 020 7714 4455.

 

[Candice]

Thanks matey

[Candice]

How do you know that your court date is 9th June? I don't remember seeing anything on mine that said I had to go to court at a specific time?

[Candice]

oic, I'm doing mine online. I thought I'd missed something for a moment lol

 

I did however get a letter from the bar stewards this morning saying they believe their charges to be reasonable and fair and all that jazz. They offered me a lump sum, which I have noted in a question below (all advice gratefully received).

 

I'm a bit confused because my claim is against the bank for 3 previous accounts. 2 of them are with my branch and one was sent away to some special office dealing with accounts in debt (mainly because of all the charges). This letter came from the department dealing with one account and the figures are relating only to that one account and not the other 2, so I think they've really gone a bit screwy with paperwork as my claim is directed at the bank for all 3 accounts. All to my benefit however I must add, but it goes to show that maybe RBoS aren't as organised with dealing with all this as we might be lead to believe (I read here there was a new department setup to take charge of all of this). This department have yet to be in contact it seems, unless they merely pull the strings on the other departments?

 

Anyway, for reference, I thought I'd post the full text of the letter as I seem to be the only one this far down the line with RBoS, so hopefully others will find it handy.

 

I write with reference to the above detailed accounts and in response to your correspondence dated 8 March 2006. Thank you for your patience whilst your concern has been investigated.

 

I understand you are unhappy with the charges debited to your account since 8 March 2000 and you request that they are refunded You have made your request on the basis that you say the charges are penalty charges for breach of contract terms which exceed the actual cost of the breach and therefore they are illegal.

 

Following a review of the transactions on your account since 8 March 2000, I can see that the charges debited to your account in this time total £1,570.00 .

 

The charges debited to your account were in relation to unauthorised borrowing, card misuse, unpaid items and paid referral fees. These are not deemed as penalty charges.

 

The Bank believes that its charges are fair and reasonable and considers that the amounts debited to your account have been applied in accordance with the published tariff. The Bank is satisfied that this tariff complies with all applicable laws and regulations.

 

Whilst your request is noted, the Bank is not prepared to refund the charges debited to your account over the last 6 years. This being said, in an attempt to reach an amicable resolution to your concern, I confirm that the Bank is prepared to consider an offer of a lump sum payment, which can be less that the balance owed, in full and final settlement of your account.

 

You will need to refer to the relevant Branch/Office, which I believe you have, regarding accounts xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxx as these accounts are not under this Office's control.

 

I note you say that if the Bank does not respond positively to your correspondence dated 8 March 2006 then you will progress a claim and also seek to recover interest and expenses. Please note that the Bank is prepared to defend its position and that it would seek to recover any cost incurred as a result of this.

 

Control of your account has now been returned to the relevant Team within this Office. Please direct any further questions you may have to our Customer Call Centre on 01952 206223. Alternatively, you may address letters for the attention of our Correspondence Team.

 

I ask that, upon receipt of this letter, you contact our Customer Call Centre immediately to discuss repayment of your account.

 

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to bring this matter to the Bank's attention.

 

If you are unhappy with the way in which your concern is being resolved, please refer to the leaflet previously sent out to you explaining the Bank's concern handling procedures. This leaflet outlines the options available to you should you with your concern to receive further considerations.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Mr A French

Customer Care Team

 

 

A couple of questions: Should I call them, and get some money back still claiming the rest through the courts (and tell the courts they have made an interim payment to me and to reduce the amount owed respectively)? Should I call them and tell them legal action is already in the last stages and if they wish to avoid it they may pay me in full now?

 

Cheers folks

[Candice]

Yeah thanks for that matey, it's pretty much what I was thinking.

 

I'm not scared by their threats at all, I know that they can't claim costs as they never contended the jurisdiction of the County Court.

 

I shall write back and let them know the full settlement figure but my main questions now is where to send that letter? My branch has 2 accounts, this department has 1 and the Litigation Officer seems to be the best bet still. Uh, damn bank. So shall I sent it to all 3 offices or just one?

[Candice]

Well, here was my reply

 

 

 

 

Offer of Repayment of Charges

 

 

Dear Mr French,

 

I am writing in response to your recent letter regarding the unlawful penalty charges that have been applied to my 3 accounts held with Royal Bank of Scotland over the last 6 years.

 

In your letter you state that the Bank is prepared to offer a lump sum settlement on the unlawful charges (which can be less that the balance owed) in an attempt to reach an amicable resolution.

 

Unfortunately this offer is wholly unacceptable as there is no reason why I should agree for the Bank to refund only part of the charges that were unlawfully taken from me. As stated in my first and second letters to the Bank, I require full and complete repayment of all unlawful charges.

 

The Bank was given a gracious two week opportunity to pay back the unlawful charges, as stipulated in my initial letter. Despite repeated telephone calls and another warning letter of impending legal action, the Bank has failed to refund the totality of the unlawful charges or, until now, demonstrate any positive desire to resolve the issue. Because of this, as warned several times, legal action was commenced on the deadline stated in the letters and telephone calls.

 

This claim is for the entire amount of unlawful charges and now includes interest on the balance and legal fees. I do not understand why the Bank believes it to be acceptable to offer me a part return of the monies unlawfully taken at this stage and not before I was forced to commence legal action to recover the full amount.

 

Because this action has now already been started (and is nearing the end of the period where the Bank must file a defence with the County Court), the only acceptable settlement figure I am able to entertain from the Bank is the sum equal to my claim, which is currently £2,749.76.

 

Unless the Bank is willing to repay the amount in full before the response deadline set for you by the Courts, then the legal process will commence as you have been advised. In this case, the Bank must either appear in Court in an attempt to defend the unlawful charges, or I shall request a Default Judgement if the Bank does not defend the claim. This would lead to the issuing of a Warrant of Execution, allowing bailiffs in to the branch to seize goods for sale at auction to recover your debt.

 

It appears from your letter that you are unfamiliar with due legal process with regards to these matters. As you must be aware, ignorance of the law is not a defence. The Bank has received all the relevant paperwork explaining the process – I too have received a duplicate copy of this paperwork. In your letter you state that the Bank is prepared to defend its position and that it would seek to recover any costs incurred as a result of this. The Small Claims Process (for monies owed of less than £5,000) on the single-track at the County Court does not permit for such action to recover any costs from the plaintiff.

 

As you state, the Bank is fully prepared to defend its position. I will thus reiterate that if the complete sum of £2,749.76 is not received before the deadline set by the Courts, then the Bank will be given the desired opportunity to attempt to defend the unlawful charges in the Court room.

 

Yours sincerely,

[Candice]

Cheers

 

So if you work for the RBS, do you know how busy it is with all the reclaimed charges? Being as I seem to be the only one so far ahead, would you agree it's pretty quiet or are people doing it without being involved with this forum? I is a bit confused :-\

[Candice]

Absolutely: rape, pillage and burn to your heart's content

 

As not too many people are down the RBS route, it's slightly new to me but so far it's going as predicted and similar to the other banks - I guess they will make you a reduced offer too. Remember it's all about mind games, so keep saying no until you get what you want.

 

The whole thing that's tickled me more that anything is the interest. As my charges started quite a while ago, the interest really has amounted to something quite significant (about 1/3 extra!).

 

I believe that bank charges are probably one of the most tax efficient savings accounts around at the moment

[Candice]

Thanks for the info and support matey

[Candice]

Uuuh how long is it taking them to reply to my letters

Call me an impatient *****r but I want my money!

[Candice]

Right this is getting totally ridiculous now. RBS are like a flock of seagulls! Cue the Benny Hill music and I shall explain:

 

I had 3 accounts with RBS, two of them at my branch and one at a special department because I owed them money.

 

I write all my letters to my branch demanding money back from all 3 accounts, my LBA and my claim form were sent there. The branch told me they had passed it on to the Credit Management Services department.

 

CMS told me that they could only deal with the one account and I keep getting letters from Mr A French of said department. Eventually he offered me about half my money - £1,150. I told him to kiss my clacker and pay me the full amount or I had every intention of going to the court.

 

I keep getting random response letters saying they are dealing with my request, even when I don't write letters to them. These letters are obviously in reponse to something because for every letter I send to this department, I get 3 acknowledgements :-|

 

As I said, a flock of seagulls.

 

But today it really turned slapstick when I got a letter from "RBS Group Litigation" about my legal claim. THEY HAVE LOST THE CLAIM FORM! They are asking if I could "therefore kindly send me a copy of your Claim Form so that I can arrange for your claim to be properly dealt with".

 

HELLO?? They have 3 working days left now to respond to the court deadline.

 

Is this some bizarre diversionary tactic or has someone actually made a huge cock up at the eleventh hour? Should I ring them and inform them of this? I don't care about writing amusing letters highlighting their stupidity at the moment, I really just want my stolen money back now.

 

I've posted several time on this forum saying what a circus this is turning in to. Maybe because it was for 3 accounts it just got them all confused or are they trying every method in the book to stall me? I just dunno. I suppose it can't hurt to call them to remind them they have 3 working days left to reply to the courts, whether they lost the claim form or not? It might prompt them to pay me before I request a default judgement.

 

W*nkers (no offence intended Good Samaritan, you're cool )

[Candice]

It *seems* that actually they are having a real internal problem with all this paperwork at the moment, I do think they might have actually lost it. There's no time to get another one from the court, they have like 3 days left to respond to the claim now. They already issues an acknowledgement of service.

[Candice]

OK you guys, I really need your help now. It looks like I may actually be going to court to fight this. I am the only one this far down the line with RBS and their court defence deadline almost expired, they made it save a few days.

 

The previous correspondence I had from them just yesterday seems quite random as they have just written to me again with their defence to my claim so they definitely haven't lost it. I have had no further contact with them since yesterday regarding that matter, as I posted above.

 

Firstly, my claim is against RBS but I have received a letter from Group Litigation of me vs. NatWest. I know that RBS own NatWest but I have not been a customer of NatWest, I am unsure why their letter says this as my claim was filed against RBS with my branches details. The claim number is the same.

 

The covering letter reads:

--- 8

Dear me,

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the Defendant's Defence as filed at Court today.

 

Please also find enclosed a Request for Further Information dated 20 April 2006 which we require your response to by 4 May 2006.

 

Yours sincerely,

Kay Stanbridge (Details added to contact section)

--- 8

 

This letter was sent from the bank. In the envelope were two other documents from the bank, copies of what they have apparently submitted to the court. I have no proof these have actually been sent to the court so would think I might want to check with them first before replying in case I say something that might damage my claim?

 

The first document is their defence and the second is a request for further information ("Request for further information of the claim form pursuant to CPR part 18").

 

To refresh your memory and save you digging around, here is what I put on my claim form on moneyclaim.gov.uk:

--- 8

The claimant held 3 bank accounts (xxx, xxx and xxx) with the defendant, open between 8/3/2000 - 8/3/2006. During this time the defendant made various deductions in respect of: 'referral charge', 'unpaid item' and 'card misuse' (levied if a direct debit, standing order or cheque was returned unpaid, or because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded).

 

If the defendant establishes the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges, the claimant will contend they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than liquidated damages clauses.

 

The claimant claims the total amount unlawfully charged during this period, of £2011. The claimant further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% p/a, of £618.76.

--- 8

 

 

Here are the contents of the document entitled "Defence":

--- 8

1. It is admitted that the Claimant holds Accounts numbered xxx, xxx and xxx with the Defendant (the "Accounts").

 

2. The Accounts are governed by written contracts (the "Contracts") between the Claimant and the Defendant.

 

3. It is admitted and averred that the Defendant applied various charges to the Accounts from May 2000 to date. (Note that my claim had March 2000, not May 2000)

 

4. The charges referred to at paragraphs 3 above were applied in accordance with the terms of the Contracts.

 

5. It is denied that any terms of the Contracts are unenforceable penalty clauses. The Defendant reserves the right to plead further on this issue following receipt of the Claimant's response to the Defendant's Request for Further Information.

 

6. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or to any relief.

 

7. Save as is expressly admitted above, each allegation contained in the Particulars of Claim is denied.

--- 8

 

I would like to point out that RBS have already offered me £1,500.

 

Here are the contents of the document requesting further information:

--- 8

This Request for Further Information is made by the Defendant to the Claimant on 20 April 2006 pursuant to Part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules. The Defendant requests that the Claimant provide the information requested herein on or before 4 May 2006.

 

Of:

 

"If the defendant is able to establish the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges..."

 

Request:

 

1. Please state whether it is the Claimant's case that the contracts contained no such terms.

 

Of:

 

"the claimant will contend they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than liquidated damages clauses"

 

2. Please identify with precision the contractual terms that the Claimant alleges to be "penalty clauses rather than liquidated damages clauses."

 

3. Please specify all of the facts relied on by the Claimant in support of this contention.

--- 8

 

So, what to do? They have submitted their defence - do they really want to go to court? As I said, nobody is this far down the road with RBS as I am. And what is up with that NatWest thing??

 

As usual, all thoughts, comments, suggestions (and support) are most gratefully received right about now

[Candice]

Hey folks,

 

I think that I got a bit unnecessarily worried about the letter received from the solicitors, I'd actually love to go to court and win my case (OK, I admit, I'd get quite a kick out of it ) so sorry for sounding panicked in my last post.

 

Thank for your reply thegoodsamaritan, very helpful. However, with regards to the request for further information under Part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules, it is my interpretation that only a court may make this request (or at least make it compulsory). What's the legal stance on this?

 

Cheers folks