RBoS - to court soon I hope

[vix2000]

Good luck, Candice, and keep us informed. I have just sent 2 LBA's to RBS today so will follow your thread with interest.

[Candice]

Thanks for the replies folks. Does the response go to the defendant, the court or both? If it's the court, where is it now sent? Moneyclaim.gov.uk has closed my case online because the defendant has lodged their defence so will be transferred to my local court, but I have yet to receive confirmation of this :-\

[whizzkid001]

Can this procedure likewise be used to also get the bank to reveal how it's charges are made up?

[Candice]

I do believe it can and actually you are saying exactly what I was thinking Need to get some clarification first just to check about this from one of the legal gurus here but so far it seems like a really good idea.

[Candice]

Thanks matey, also discussing this issue here too:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=33758

Cheers, Candice

[rema1979]

Oh God, I guess this means I'll be off to court soon too. RBS have acknowledged both my claims and will probably put in a defence nearer to the 28 days deadline. Not looking forward to it.

[Candice]

Don't panic matey, check first that you are getting letters from the same people (look in the RBS contacts section, I have added the contact details of people I have had dealings with and you can see I added them because of my username).

 

I'm the only one this far down the RBS line so this isn't set in stone, it could be different for different people. Only when several people have the same results can we be fairly certain that RBS have a process in place for dealing with this.

 

Go through the letters I posted earlier and start preparing your defence to them in case it does happen to you, just to be safer than sorry. If they do put in a defence and send out the request for info, you can fire it straight back at them.

 

That will be something they will hope won't of happened so soon for sure, which will show them that you still know what you're doing and then immediately put the pressure back on them when the ball's in their court!

 

Good luck

[thegoodsamaritan]

I think once we see one or two cases go this far the floodgates will open. All the best Candice & rema1979

[dw190]

Can this procedure likewise be used to also get the bank to reveal how it's charges are made up?

 

You can request whatever information you feel may assist you and the court.

[BankFodder]

Sorry but the information here is not generally not correct.

CPR 18 is expressly excluded from the Small Claims Track (CPR 27.2)

[rbrears]

BF is correct except that there is a small anomoly here.

 

This is because the claim is not at this stage on the Small Claims track. It will not be classified as a Small Claim until after the parties have filed their Allocation Questionnaires and the court has allocated it to that Track. Until then it is a "normal" claim and all the usual rules apply.

 

However it is clear that the CPR envisage that Part 18 will not apply to a Small Claim, unless the court orders of its own initiative that further information should be given. If the court wanted to do this it would put the requirement in the order it makes alocating the claim to the Small Claims Track and requiring the usual Small Claims disclosure.

 

In the circumstances I would reply to the bank that you are not prepared at this stage to answer the Request. You anticipate that the claim will be allocated to the Small CLaims Track and would not then expect to have to deal with a Part 18 request since these aere specifically excluded under Part 27 unless the court specifically orders you to do so of its own initiative.

 

To my mind the practice that appears to be developing whereby the banks ask you for information about their unilaterally drafted contract seems quite pointless. The bank will have to produce the relevant contract and terms anyway in the course of usual Small Claims disclosure (i.e. send the other party copies of documents upon which you intend to rely 14 days before the hearing) since they are pleading in their defence that the charges are in accordance with the contract. They will have to prove this.

 

At that point you will producing arguments to show that the charges are not a true reflection of the costs of dealing with your breach of your contract with the bank.

 

The other tactic is to play them at their own game and serve your own Part 18 Request. Since the Bank is refuting that the charges are penalties ask them to produce all relevant documents, memoranda, notes or other records of the bank's assessment of the cost of dealing with your account, showing that the charges levied are a true reflection of the costs, whether they involve a profit element or contribute to the bank's general recovery costs in respect of its customers generally, or whether the costs only compensate the Bank for actual losses involved in dealing with the breach, and details of how the costs are levied, whether automatically or otherwise.

 

That might give them something to think about! Of course they may refuse to answer the Request and then you (or they in respect of their own Request) could note on the Allocation Questionnaire that there is an outstanding Part 18 Request which you would like answered, enclosing a copy with your allocation questionnaire, and then leave it to the judge to decide if it should be answered.

 

The only thing that worries me slightly is that getting invloved in Part 18 Requests might actually persuade the judge that there are legal issues and arguments that are sufficiently complex to merit listing the case on the Fast Track and then you are at risk of costs up to the Fast Track limit.

[Candice]

Damn c~n_i#g hell. My claim has now been transferred to my local court who want another £100 to fill in a allocation questionnaire! If I don't then my claim might be stayed! Do I claim this extra fee back too?

 

Well miffed now Why are RBS being difficult? It's gonna cost them more in the long run! Idiots (I feel bad saying nasty things about RBS when TGS is so nice and helpful :$)

 

Also with regards to the CPR 18 rules, I'm going to reply saying that as it hasn't been allocated to a track yet and when it does it will go to the small claims track, that it doesn't apply. I believe this to be the case that I can get out of their stupid request even though I did take the trouble to go all the way in to town, to my bank, and look like a sad editedwhilst I asked for some standard leaflets :-\ Oh well.

 

I envy those who got their money back so quickly lol, I really want them to stop this madness and return what they stole. In a way I am quite shocked that the legal system allows a thief to use a mountain of paperwork to defend the right to steal

[alanfromderby]

The extra fee will be added to the claim automatically - as will any fee that is required for enforcement. Try a google search: county court fees

[Candice]

Thanks for the most detailed and helpful replies folks, very much appeciated and I doubt that this will be the last time this defence is used by the banks. I will reply to the bank directly saying their request cannot be honoured because CPR 18 doesn't apply for the reasons mentioned above. I *hope* that will be the nail in the coffin and they won't bother defending it any more as I don't see anything else they could use to defend.

 

Unfortunately as I mentioned I fear my bank are actually really preparing to go to court, which although I am slightly excited about (whether rightly or wrongly), it's just annoying it's taking so long for them to cough up. If I do ever complete the survey it's going to be at stage 6, 7 or even new stage 8 (bank turned up and I hopefully win).

 

So now to spend £100 on the damn allocation questionnaire requesting the small claims track. Yay

 

Although I can't risk trying it on with my own CPR 18 to get details of their charges, it's nice to know that we have discovered a potential weapon we can use against them should this action continue in the future.

 

Thanks again folks, I'd be lost without you all

[thegoodsamaritan]

Well miffed now Why are RBS being difficult? It's gonna cost them more in the long run! Idiots (I feel bad saying nasty things about RBS when TGS is so nice and helpful :$)

 

 

Thats ok, don't feel bad about it. I just work for them, they don't own me even if they think at times they do

 

Who asked for it to be transferred to your local court at a cost of £100, i don't understand? Were you given a reason for this or did the court just tell you they're doing it?

[Candice]

MCOL can only go so far with a claim. As soon as the defendant submits their defence, it gets transferred to the claimants local court (if the defendent is a a company) or the defendant's local court if the defendant is an individual.

 

Then the local court send you an allocation questionnaire to decide which track the claim is going on and to amend the exact court, to make note of any witnesses and experts etc. They also check availability dates so if witnesses or experts are unavailable they can try and schedule things to fit by the looks of things.

 

This damn allocation questionnaire costs £100! I already paid MCOL £120

[rema1979]

In the frequently asked questions section it says that only one bank has actually turned up in court to defend their case...I take it the numbers are rising and more and more banks are trying to defend their case in court?

 

They're better off just paying me my £800 odd cos it's going to cost them a lot more than that surely?

 

Keep me posted Candice.

x

[alanfromderby]

In the frequently asked questions section it says that only one bank has actually turned up in court to defend their case...I take it the numbers are rising and more and more banks are trying to defend their case in court?

 

No...still just one!

[sparkymark75]

My claim was submitted on the 6th April but the Small Claims court must be busy in my neck of the woods because my court date isn't until the 9th June!! And they have until the 2nd June to respond.

 

In the meantime I've had one of what appears to be a standard response from one of their Customer Service offices in London, but there was no mention of the small claim!!

[rema1979]

Candice - just thought I'd let you know that RBS have settled my smaller claim of £317 in full before they put in a defence. Think they're just going further with you because your claim is far bigger than mine. Still waiting to hear about my claim for £532 from RBS.

 

Good luck

[Candice]

Call me dumb (dumb) but does the response to the CPR 18 response go to the defendant's address and/or the allocated courts address?

[Candice]

Yeah thanks for the encouragement, I'm glad to hear they paid back what they stole.

 

I recently received my second offer from them, about a grand shy of what I'm claiming (about £2k7), which I declined saying that the only offer I would entertain is for the amount equal to my claim.

 

I'm very serious about getting the entire value of my claim and will simply not accept a partial return of the money they stole (plus the interest and fees incurred as a result of them trying their luck and arguing the toss).

 

The funny thing is the original offer was for only a few hundred less but was unconditional, this offer for just a couple of hundred more now includes conditions that I keep quiet. I'm not interested in any conditions, and even if they offer the full amount with conditions I'll tell them to go whistle.

[mungo]

Hello candice

your not on your own, my claim was served on 7th april for over 3 grand,i've got a hundred and one things going on at the moment so i haven't got round to getting on here much,just spotted your thread tonight.

 

All i've had is the usual 'sorry your unhappy' speil other than the last letter that was as unfriendly as a letter from a bank can get i think, but no acknowedgement of the legal procedings and it arrived after the deadline had passed ???

 

Its strange that they've made you an offer as they certainly havn't made me one (obviously if and when they do i'll knock it back unless its for the full amount) they seem to be treating each case differently,maybe to try different approaches to test the water???who knows

 

like yourself i've got no intention of bottling it now so good luck and i'll keep you posted

 

cheers

 

mick

[sparkymark75]

Same here. To date I've not received any acknowledgement of the summons. Today however, I received a letter stating that they would like me to make an appointment to review my overdraft facility. I've had one for about 7 or 8 years and this is the first time I've had to have a review of it.

 

Me thinks their up to something.

[vix2000]

thats funny. My daughter has recieved a letter from RBS's solicitors calling in her OD which she has had for ages and they haven't bothered her before. Her LBA was sent 2 weeks ago and they had 2 weeks before that. this is the only letter in reply, her court claim was posted yesterday so they won't have got it yet.

 

Methinks they're trying scare tactics.