RBoS - to court soon I hope

[Candice]

Hey all,

 

Firstly I am a newbie who saw you at MoneySavingExpert.com and I think what you're doing is great work I am writing the letter to my bank as we speak to reclaim £2,623.13!!!

 

I followed all the instructions, read the FAQ's and have had a nose about but I can't find anywhere why the limit is 6 years and not, say 8 or 5. Can someone explain to me where this comes from please as I'd like to put this in my letter to the bank.

 

Unfortunately I found the template in the library to be, in my humble opinion, meek and amateur when faced with a mamoth corporation like a bank so using my experience of writing letters to make the whole thing a lot more legal and look much more important and professional. I'd like to be able to cite some more information to show them I know my facts [i'll post it in the library upon completion if that's ok, in case others might like to use it as a template for theirs].

 

So yeah, why 6 years?

 

Cheers,

Candice

[Candice]

Cheers Dave, that's great.

 

BTW the site keeps giving me SQL connection errors. It looks like you need to up the connection limits when starting the MySQL daemon with command line parameters (or a my.cnf file) or change it from mysql_connect to mysql_pconnect and decrease the lifespan of your Apache child processes. Just a guess though as you use Windows and I don't know too much about hosting on Windows. Good luck with it

[Candice]

Hi Dave,

 

I think the work you're doing here is great and that with Martin Lewis being involved you're bound to receive a lot more traffic now so I'd love to do anything I can to help but unfortunately I know lots about PHP/MySQL on Apache and UNIX and not IIS and Windows

 

The difference between _connect and _pconnect is whether the connection is persistent (ie, it's not closed after a page request but the MySQL connection is bound to the webserver child process and is only closed when that dies). There is a *HUGE* overhead in connecting to the database, including when it's on another machine, so typically _pconnect will reduce the CPU and bandwidth usage and make the whole thing work smoother on the whole.

 

It looks like your increased traffic is pushing the connection limit over the allowed threshold with _connect (which will connect the number of times that you have active visitors requesting pages). With _pconnect your maximum connections will be determined by the number of IIS child processes running, so reducing this will solve the PHP->MySQL connection problem but then you may get a new error of "Server too busy" as there's not enough child processes to deal with your traffic.

 

You should probably see if there's an IIS expert that can help you, unless you're interested in switching to something with a lot more beef (Apache - which can also run on Windows) and/or a Linux/UNIX environment for your whole hosting platform which wil give you much more power, stability and security.

 

I realy hope you can get it sorted because, as I said, I think this project is really good.

 

P.S., I have finished my letter to the bank and would be interested in your thoughts on it, it's based on the library template but sexed up with more legalese and written to cover more than one account (as I've had 3 accounts I with my bank within the 6 year period). It's a word .doc.

[Bookworm]

Let's have a look then, lol!

 

Post it here, we all want to see!

[Candice]

Err sure lol.

 

Now someone tell me how to upload a file

[richardc]

I'm no expert, but I left click the text and highlight it, then copy, then paste onto your post. Probably not the expert way of doing it but it works

[Candice]

Request for Repayment of Charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to request a full and immediate refund of all charges applied to all of my accounts held with you within the last six years.

 

As you may be aware, penalty clauses in contracts in English and Scottish law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party. Under the 1977 Unfair Terms (contracts) Act, the sheer fact that all banks make these charges makes this a breach of the Act. This is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) and possibly the Sales of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1982.

 

Such charges levied against my account include, but are not limited to, direct debit refusals, standing order refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and others. I am reclaiming these charges on all of the accounts that are or have been operational with you for six years in to the past from the date of this letter, as stipulated by the statutes of Limitation Act 1980.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contracts which you agreed to at the time that I opened my accounts. It is an implied term of the contracts that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. The charges applied to my account are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer Regulations.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I have calculated that from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges, from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges and from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges. Therefore I have calculated that in total on all my accounts in the last six years that you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges.

 

I hope that you will enter in to a sincere dialogue with me in an attempt to resolve this matter satisfactorily as quickly and efficiently as possible. I am giving you 14 days to contact me in writing, unconditionally accepting my request in principal and informing me of the date by which I can expect to receive the total payment owed.

 

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days to reflect on your position and to allow you to fully investigate the laws, statutes and regulations which you have broken. I would advise that although I am willing for you to resolve this issue directly with me at this time, failure to resolve it satisfactorily within the most gracious time periods I have allotted will result in the commencement of a claim at the expiry of the second deadline. At this point I shall also be additionally claiming to recover interest and expenses incurred.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[Name]

[rbrears]

In my humble opinion this gives the bank an unnecessary window of delay. Remonstrating with them at their dreadful behaviour is also pointless. A polite and short letter stating why you think charges should be refunded with a time limit before you issue proceedings is all that you need - except where you need copy statements in which case you have to ask for them and deal with the response. Dont think for one minute that the bank will use the 14 days you give them to research your points - they just won't. You will get a standard letter from the bank in reply every time and further correspondence just causes delay. Its not for you to give the banks a crash course in the legal position as we see it. In relaity the banks are well aware of the position we take.

 

As soon as you know the correct figure for charges send a 14 day letter before action. If the amount is not in your bank by the end of that time issue a claim - everything else is just a delay.

 

The number of members at this site and others is increasing rapidly. The number of court claims is growing exponentially as far as the banks are concerned. Pretty soon they are going to throw a lot of money at this situation and people should get their claims in as soon as they can before the landscape changes into one where the bank becomes an interested defendant rather than a remote corporation who as yet have not geared up to deal with small claims served and giving them only 2-4 weeks to reply.

 

In any event best of luck to you.

[oblong21]

i agree,

 

it probably doesnt matter what you write at this point, what was a snowball a couple of weeks ago is fast becoming an avalanche and i would be more concerned with getting everything over asap and dictating the pace before someone somewhere finds a loophole or there is somekind of intervention,

 

Before everyone flames up with their ' why has it taken so long if they had it etc etc, deep down you just know that something is underway to burst this bubble, which is fantastic moving forwards and hopefully no longer will banks be able to charge these extortionate fees, but no way will the govt allow the entire population to claim back their fees IMHO.

[Candice]

Hi guys, yes thanks comments received most warmly. I am amending my letter now and will post the update when done. If you think it'd do the job then tomorrow morning I intend to hand deliver it to my bank manager and send it recorded postage also. That should cover my bases.

 

You may like to know that recently on MoneySavingExpert.com forums there was a poll for best joke, and this won:

Why did the Irish name their currency the 'punt'? Because it rhymes with 'bank manager'

[richardc]

Send it Special Delivery - you can guarantee it will get there.

[Seminole]

Hi guys, yes thanks comments received most warmly. I am amending my letter now and will post the update when done. If you think it'd do the job then tomorrow morning I intend to hand deliver it to my bank manager and send it recorded postage also. That should cover my bases.

 

You may like to know that recently on MoneySavingExpert.com forums there was a poll for best joke, and this won:

Why did the Irish name their currency the 'punt'? Because it rhymes with 'bank manager'

 

My old university's social science students football team was called "Wit of a Banker"

[Candice]

Yes I shall send it special delivery then but I also want to put it in someone's hand so there's no possibility at all they can say they haven't received it, I'll even try and get them to give me a receipt that they've accepted my letter while I'm in there and if I don't get it, will undoubtedly do what I'm good at and cause a fuss and lot of embarassement and commotion for them. Well, you've got to really

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to request a full and immediate refund of all charges applied to all of my accounts held with you within the last six years.

 

As you are undoubtedly aware, penalty clauses in contracts in English and Scottish law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party. Under the 1977 Unfair Terms (contracts) Act, the sheer fact that all banks make these charges makes this a breach of the Act. This is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) and possibly the Sales of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1982.

 

Such charges levied against my account include, but are not limited to, direct debit refusals, standing order refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and others. I am reclaiming these charges on all of the accounts that are or have been operational with you for six years in to the past from the date of this letter, as stipulated by the statutes of Limitation Act 1980.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contracts which you agreed to at the time that I opened my accounts. It is an implied term of the contracts that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. The charges applied to my account are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer Regulations.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I have calculated that from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges, from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges and from account nnnnnnnn you have taken £nnn.00 in charges. Therefore I have calculated that in total on all my accounts in the last six years that you have taken £n,nnn.00 in charges.

 

I hope that you will enter in to a sincere dialogue with me in an attempt to resolve this matter satisfactorily as quickly and efficiently as possible. I am giving you 14 days to contact me in writing, unconditionally accepting my request in principal and I expect the total payment to be received before the end of this period.

 

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I will begin commencement of a claim at the expiry of the deadline. At this point I shall also be additionally claiming to recover interest and expenses incurred.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[Name]

 

*Candice, I hope you won't mind, I've reformatted your posts so that they won't take so much space*

[richardc]

I have emailed all letters and have also taken a copy to my local branch and got them to stamp as received a duplicate. Overkill on delivery is no fault

[Candice]

That's a top point Richard, thanks for that

[Candice]

The 2-week deadline for RBS to respond to my request to repay the £2,011 owed to me has now expired. 2 weeks on, and 2 letters later, it seems as though they've totally ignored me. Naturally, tomorrow sees the start of my legal action against them when I begin my claim.

 

The good news, I suppose, is that I can now add the interest to my claim bringing it up to £2,630. Apart from the £50 I will reclaim in expenses, the cost of all this so far is 8 hours of my time and £3. Not bad really

 

I'll keep you all posted

[Bookworm]

Cool.

 

Don't forget to pm Bankfodder or Dave once you have your claim number!

[Candice]

Yes of course I won't forget. I used the standard PDF template from http://www.bankchargeshell.co.uk as the basis for my claim, but I had to reword is slightly because I am reclaiming charges on 3 accounts.

 

I would be interested in anybodies comments.

 

Cheers

 

--- 8

 

The claimant held 3 bank accounts with the defendant which were open within the time period of 8th March 2000 to 8th March 2006. Account xxxxxxxx (now closed), account xxxxxxxx (now closed) and account xxxxxxxx.

 

Between 8th March 2000 and 8th March 2006, the defendant made various deductions from the accounts in respect of: ‘referral charge’ (levied monthly when the account debit balance exceeded the specified overdraft limit); ‘unpaid item(s)’ (levied if a direct debit or standing order payment was returned unpaid because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded); 'card misuse' (levied if a cheque payment was returned unpaid because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded).

 

If the defendant is able to establish that the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges, the claimant will contend that they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than being liquidated damages clauses.

 

The claimant claims from the defendant a sum equivalent to the total amount unlawfully debited to the claimant’s accounts during the above mentioned period, being £2,011.00.

 

The claimant further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, being the sum of £618.76.

 

The claimant further claims the court fee of £[will find out when I submit my claim if this looks ok].

[Candice]

Scrap that, just seen how stupidly small the textarea is :-| Do they expect that to be useful at all? I managed to condense it all down to this:

 

"The claimant held 3 bank accounts (xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx and xxxxxx) with the defendant, open between 8/3/2000 - 8/3/2006.

 

During this time the defendant made various deductions in respect of: 'referral charge', 'unpaid item' and 'card misuse' (levied if a direct debit, standing order or cheque was returned unpaid, or because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded).

 

If the defendant establishes the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges, the claimant will contend they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than liquidated damages clauses.

 

The claimant claims the total amount unlawfully charged during this period, of £2011. The claimant further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% p/a, of £618.76."

 

The task of compressing it all without losing content was harder than I could possible describe lol. Damn moneyclaim

[Bookworm]

I did wonder wen I saw your 1st post

[Candice]

Hi all,

 

I'm claiming against RBoS. The claim has been served and acknowledged, and they intent to fully defend the claim.

 

I'm claiming £2,011 + interest £618.76. Total: 2,629.76. Court fees is £120.

 

First one versus RBoS or so it would appear?? I really hope I get to go to court. The lady who filed the acknowledgement of service is Mrs Carol Stickland. Her position is "Litigation Officer", her email is [email protected], her phone number is 020 7714 4448 and fax number is 020 7714 4455.

 

[alanfromderby]

Super...look forward to hearing your progress.

[Candice]

Thanks matey

[thegoodsamaritan]

Yeah I think ur the 1st RBS case to get this far according to this site anyways.

 

All the best keep us posted!

[sparkymark75]

I've filed my Small Claim against RBS today, I'm fully expecting them to defend it. Although I'm a bit dissapointed in having to wait until 9 June