Robinson Way / IND,claimform - citi card 'debt'

[rev.ian]

A recent conversation I had with IND

Me Are you part of Robinson Way Ltd

Woman We do work for Robinson Way

Me Are you a subsidiary of Robinson Way

Woman I don’t know what a subsidiary is.

Me You should not chase clients for Robinson Way without a Notice of Assignment being sent.

Woman Are we chasing you?

Me No I am phoning from XXXXXX Council trading Standards.

Woman I will transfer you.

Me put the phone down.

 

IND are a law unto themselves and will lie to the court. Be ready for them keep calm and you will catch them out.

The NoA will be from LV to RW & Co they cannot assign it twice. RW & Co would of needed to assign it to RW ltd as it is a completely new company and as IND are the ones issuing court papers they will have needed to have sent you a NoA by recorded post so you can ask for proof of posting.

[colinsunderland]

I try, however their solicitor stalls by saying she doesn't know the answer to any questions I put to them and she will have to seek advice from her client.

 

A simple quick summary is:

 

Both witness statements have been written by people working for IND not the claimant

I have 2 documents stating assignment was made to different companies on 2 different dates

The haven't provided a default notice as ordered

The amount of claim is different to the amount shown owing on the final statement

I got the recent witness statement and evidence on a Saturday evening for the case to be heard less than 48 hours later (Monday).

 

Do I have to do a new witness statement and what should I be saying to the court regarding the above, anyone any idea's please

[citizenB]

Site team are aware meanwhile, you might want to send S.O.S to Mike_hawke and or donkeyB and ask them to look in on you. I think they have had some dealings with other threads concerning Robinson Way and their little tricks.

 

I think definitely you should have received a copy of the Witness statement at least 7 days prior to the hearing - you might want to start putting together a rebuttal statement - going through each of their points. You do need to raise the point that they have only given this stuff to you late last night..

 

You dont even know if this WS has been submitted to the court either ?

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Colin

 

Could you confirm the full content of the order [verbatim] following the last hearing

[colinsunderland]

no i can't find it i'm not sure i actually got a copy from the court, from my notes

 

adjourned to allow claimant to file

 

notice of assignment

default notice

factoring debts (not sure what this meant but its as i wrote it)

coherant explanation of how the sum claimed was arrived at

document trail

 

Thanks

[Mike_hawk]

And has the claimant effected any of the above?

[colinsunderland]

they have sent a NOA and a letter not titled NOA but stating the debt had been assigned to RW on a completely difefrent date to the other one

Nothing else was supplied apart from the photocopy of a page detailed above

[Mike_hawk]

RW or IND?

[colinsunderland]

IND sent the stuff, IND did both witness statements (even though they deny this - will be harder to deny the second one), RW are the claimant

[Mike_hawk]

Same as previous then, late/bad service and hearsay witness statement combined with creative documentation?

[colinsunderland]

thanks Mike (and others)

Do I have to do a WS up or can i just go into court and explain this, what are the time limits for WS to be served?

[Mike_hawk]

I'd be inclined to draft a w/s to poke under the dj's nose again before the hearing...... if it needs saying don't hold back, if the judge is made aware of the facts I don't think he'll take too kindly to having his time wasted [again], stick a request for costs in as well.

 

Have a go at drafting something and I'll take a look at it with you later this evening

[colinsunderland]

thanks, will be a couple of hours at least, I have to go out for a bit, thats why i was asking if i needed to do one, am off work tomorrow (another lost day due to this) so might be in morning i get to do something

[Mike_hawk]

Won't be about tomorrow until the evening, try to get someting posted tonight so we can have a tinker with it. Failing that post what you can in the morning and PM Andy to see if he can take a look before you run a copy off for the usher.

[colinsunderland]

going to try to get this done at some point tonight, whats the scorer with the default notice, do they have to send one before starting action?

[colinsunderland]

Mike, have just sent you a pm, hope thats ok, don't want ind faxing the court some **** like they did last time

[Mike_hawk]

Col

 

Top and tail as previous, and yes its being a little cheeky submitting by way of 3.9 again but heyho, should make interesting reading for the judge

 

Redacted a bit of the info you PM'd me, this says plenty [tis still a bit longwinded] without the need to put any doubt in the dj's mind

 

[ATTACH]39439[/ATTACH]

[AndyOrch]

Hi Colin responding to your PM.

 

I see Mike has pretty much covered all the necessities required to input further evidence under CPR.The Order would need to be checked as sometimes the Court can state a required time of response.The norm is 7 days to allow admissible evidence but there is another CPR requirement that a WS can be submitted pre 4 days to hearing.(neither are applicable to your matter having received it pre 3) Under that reasoning I would be demanding that the WS is rejected and the Claimant has failed to comply within the giving requirement.

 

 

Requirement to serve witness statements for use at trial

 

CPR 32.4

 

(1) A witness statement is a written statement signed by a person which contains the evidence which that person would be allowed to give orally.

(2) The court will order a party to serve on the other parties any witness statement of the oral evidence which the party serving the statement intends to rely on in relation to any issues of fact to be decided at the trial.

(3) The court may give directions as to –

(a) the order in which witness statements are to be served; and

(b) whether or not the witness statements are to be filed.

Back to top of page

Use at trial of witness statements which have been served

 

CPR 32.5

 

(1) If –

(a) a party has served a witness statement; and

(b) he wishes to rely at trial on the evidence of the witness who made the statement,

he must call the witness to give oral evidence unless the court orders otherwise or he puts the statement in as hearsay evidence.

(Part 33 contains provisions about hearsay evidence)

(2) Where a witness is called to give oral evidence under paragraph (1), his witness statement shall stand as his evidence in chief(GL) unless the court orders otherwise.

(3) A witness giving oral evidence at trial may with the permission of the court –

(a) amplify his witness statement; and

(b) give evidence in relation to new matters which have arisen since the witness statement was served on the other parties.

(4) The court will give permission under paragraph (3) only if it considers that there is good reason not to confine the evidence of the witness to the contents of his witness statement.

(5) If a party who has served a witness statement does not–

(a) call the witness to give evidence at trial; or

(b) put the witness statement in as hearsay evidence, any other party may put the witness statement in as hearsay evidence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[colinsunderland]

whats the relevence tio this secion in the defence mike did up please andy?

 

In contrast to the Claimants position I would respectfully refer to the case decided by Mr Recorder Campbell in the Baiili reported trial of HFO capital Ltd v Mr Roland Wegmuller at http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2012/19.html, and would hope that this decision offers some assistance to the court in this matter

[Mike_hawk]

Col.......... got about 2 mins mate, read the Judgment on Applications section near the bottom of the link. The effect was the court wouldn't put up with wasting additional time and resources in the matter and passed judgment on admissable evidence available to it on the day of the trial.