Lottery fraud?

[Crapstone]

at first I wasn't sure as my elderly parents insisted they had tried to take lottery tickets into the local Post Office and newsagents but had been told they had won nothing,

even though they were sure they had a few pounds to come back.

 

Nothing major, just a couple of numbers and stars on the Euro.

 

The signed tickets were kept by the shops and it was shrugged off that they'd made a mistake.

 

This time I have checked their ticket and they do have a valid claim for £xxx.

 

I know all the people that serve on the counters and went into the Post Office today and did what my Dad usually does.

They asked where he was and I said he was ill and I was just running a few errands.

I asked them to check the ticket and sure enough they said it hadn't won and went to put it in the bin.

 

I asked for it back and then took it into the newsagents, which is only a few shops away, and again I know the staff.

I settled my parents paper bill and casually asked them to check the ticket.

 

They pressed a few buttons on a till, said it had won £80 and then tried to give me that amount.

I refused and asked for the ticket back as they'd cash it in next time they did the lottery and I was just checking for them.

 

I was disgusted, but didn't let them know that, as I just wanted to see for myself if they were trying to fleece elderly people and it seems they are.

 

The question is who do I complain to?

 

Is it the P.O. and the newsagents or the lottery or both?

 

I have proof but will keep that quiet for now.

[dx100uk]

lottery first port of call

 

dx

[Crapstone]

That's was I was thinking as I know it was scanned and I assume they would have a record of that even if it wasn't paid?

[dx100uk]

probably

i'm more thinking that its better not to alert the retail outlet

 

let the lottery people do an investigation using their [secret?] methods

 

dx

[Crapstone]

Absolutely. Thanks dx

[assisted blonde]

I think the lottery people will get onto this quite quickly, if they dont perhaps trading standards will , whatever happens dont alert the traders and tell your parents not to take their tickets back to these outlets for checking at the moment.

This is quite serious so get on to it right away.

[caledfwlch]

Can I just check, is the winning amount actually higher than £80? ie, the Post Office claimed there was no winning numbers at all, presumably hoping to keep the ticket, and the newsagent says there is a winning line, but claim it is a good deal less than what has actually been won hoping to pocket the difference?

[Crapstone]

Yes, the amount is higher than £80 and is treble figures. I've looked to see if they could have mistaken it for any other draw but there are none for that date or close to it that would have paid £80 exactly.

[caledfwlch]

Yes, the amount is higher than £80 and is treble figures. I've looked to see if they could have mistaken it for any other draw but there are none for that date or close to it that would have paid £80 exactly.

 

Have you tried a 3rd location to be sure? I suspect contacting the Lottery needs to be done, just wondering if there were technical issues. Newsagents, aye, but the Post Office seems less likely if you see what I mean, though it seems like you took it in twice, so I think on balance, you probably are right but it might be an idea to go somewhere your not known and see what happens.

[whitetigerx]

at first I wasn't sure as my elderly parents insisted they had tried to take lottery tickets into the local Post Office and newsagents but had been told they had won nothing,

even though they were sure they had a few pounds to come back.

 

Nothing major, just a couple of numbers and stars on the Euro.

 

The signed tickets were kept by the shops and it was shrugged off that they'd made a mistake.

 

This time I have checked their ticket and they do have a valid claim for £xxx.

 

I know all the people that serve on the counters and went into the Post Office today and did what my Dad usually does.

They asked where he was and I said he was ill and I was just running a few errands.

I asked them to check the ticket and sure enough they said it hadn't won and went to put it in the bin.

 

I asked for it back and then took it into the newsagents, which is only a few shops away, and again I know the staff.

I settled my parents paper bill and casually asked them to check the ticket.

 

They pressed a few buttons on a till, said it had won £80 and then tried to give me that amount.

I refused and asked for the ticket back as they'd cash it in next time they did the lottery and I was just checking for them.

 

I was disgusted, but didn't let them know that, as I just wanted to see for myself if they were trying to fleece elderly people and it seems they are.

 

The question is who do I complain to?

 

Is it the P.O. and the newsagents or the lottery or both?

 

I have proof but will keep that quiet for now.

 

Hi crapstone

 

I'm actually a public prosecutor, and deal with criminal offences, when I'm not on annual leave like today, and bored ****less. What I would say to you is:

 

1) You need to report this to the police really, as it involves a crime. If you have proof, make sure that the proof you have proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt or you'll embarrass yourself and the offenders might get wise and walk away. It is a crime because it is Fraud by Abuse of Position, contrary to the Fraud Act 2006 which is imprisonable upon conviction on indictment of not more than 10 years. If the evidence you have isn't good enough to start an investigation, they will likely not investigate it because it would not result in a successful prosecution. Even if they did investigate it, unless it meets the Full Code Test, the Crown Prosecution Service will not prosecute (a lot of cases this happens to be, believe me), this is why a lot of people get away with identity theft and other types of financial fraud like credit card fraud. If you can prove it to the police, then report this as a crime as soon as possible.

 

2) You should inform the licensing lottery company so that they can also investigate the offence.

 

I think you should do the right thing so that you protect vulnerable persons like your parents, I think the police will prosecute as its probably been going on for a long time. They've probably made thousands from these illegal organised crimes for quite some time, and if they've raised money in excess of £5000, they'll be looking at a hefty prison sentence.

 

Let me know your thoughts.

[Kraken1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117517/Newsagent-Anne-Jeevarajah-jailed-trying-claim-pensioners-156k-lottery-winnings.html. In case of interest.

[Crapstone]

It was claimed without any problems from a supermarket chain and a receipt given for the full value. The P.O. has internal CCTV and I think the newsagents has it too, so it should be recorded that it had to be retrieved from them trying to put it in the bin. I would also think that there would be a record of them scanning it or not as the case may be on the lottery computer.

 

There is reason to believe that there is a family connection between the P.O. and the newsagents and, without saying too much, the P.O branch has been in trouble before and quite recently. For what? I don't know but it was closed while it was being investigated and certain staff were removed after it was audited.

 

I'd seen the same thing happen a year or so ago in the same P.O. and an elderly couple were arguing that they had won £10 but were told they hadn't and their ticket had been ripped up and put in the bin. I presume that if was a winning ticket, as long as it could be put back together with the code visible, it could be claimed upon? That's what they did to my parents on previous claims and they presumed, because the person behind the counter tore it up, that it must have been worthless and they didn't think to ask for it back as they thought it would be invalid even if they did want to check it again elsewhere.

 

I've informed the lottery company and they are going to take it up and investigate. If there is a fraud going on I would think they are best placed to take any evidence and present that to the police. I don't think for one second that, even with concrete proof, that the police or CPS would act just because of one individual consumer complaining without a proven loss. I can't prove it was a deliberate action and not a mistake and at worst they could be seen as negligent. Only the lottery company can look into that as they surely can see what time tickets are paid out and check against fraud.

 

It's terrible to think that people stoop that low.

 

Thanks for your help guys and girls.

[Andy77799]

should report to police though, good luck

[kabukiman]

With the amount of money camelot makes, self scanners should be available to reduce fraud or at the least a screen visible to the customer like those at checkouts.

[Andy77799]

screen visible to the customer like those at checkouts

Good idea.

[Crapstone]

I agree, that would be a good idea as long as it's discreit so any thugs can't see over your shoulder the amount you're collecting. I think I'll be convincing them to do it all online in the future as at least that would cut down on the risks of collecting the money and would probably be a lot better for them.