Jump to content
  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Agree completely.  What is disturbing is that VCS actually went for an appeal, the motorists were too lazy to turn up so Simon now has an appeal level verdict in his favour.
    • There were a number of matters that concern me in Judge Saffman's verdict. The first is  that you cannot form a contract with a forbidding  rule. This was not the case in PE v Beavis as it was within the bounds of a carpark where motorists were allowed to park their cars.  Also if a motorist who does stop when apparently they shouldn't is therefore a trespasser and as such VCS cannot sue for trespass only the landowner can do that. Secondly and the Judges in the Beavis case alluded to the fact that while the amount charged -£85- was not a penalty, that had he offence been one of secondary importance then the charge would have been a penalty.To pull off the road for 30 seconds would in most people's view be of secondary importance and therefore a penalty. It is interesting to note that the new Appeals charter for motorists will include mitigating reasons and a tiered system to differentiate between major and minor offences.  On top of that what does a driver do if a pedestrian walks out on to the road. At the moment it looks as if the driver has to run them over since to stop would bring on a fine. That would be ridiculous. And what about a tyre burst or a collision between two vehicles? The Law for the latter  is that you have to stop and exchange details. And there are several other reasons why a motorist may have to stop and none of them would be mitigating. And for every case where a "no stopping" rule has been upheld by a Judge, there have been about  five where the decision has gone the other way.   The Judge paid too much attention to the Beavis case and took its arguments into consideration to justify his reasons when the Beavis case had little similarity to the no stopping case which was confirmed by the District Judge who staed that the two cases "were substantially different on the facts".  
    • Ok I sent off my letter to Gladstone and MB, now the waiting game. I showed MSE and National Consumer Service my letter before claim response and the majority people were not impressed with my letter.   But after reading this quote on CAG, it feels like the next best approach regardless: ''No, it is not a joke reply. The more you show these con artists respect the more they will try to fleece you. Don't fill in their Section D. Treat them with contempt. They're not the police or the council, they have no right to this money and they know it.''   I still feel I've made the right decision but I feel doubtful at times with the wide amount of different opinions people have approaching this situation on the MSE and National Consumer Service forums.   (When I put in p.e.p.i.p.o.o it auto corrects to National Consumer Service)  
    • Exactly which is the core issue for the dispute they have estimated an annual usage in excess of 100,000 kWh of gas. Not only estimate it but they have attempted to bill for it as well.   This is again why I move to make a case for fraud. Their action is so egriegous it must be known to be dishonest and potentially a deliberate move to prevent switching supplier.   Therefore any corrective action does not hinge on my input, notwithstanding it is not required in their terms and conditions.
  • Our picks

    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
      • 49 replies
    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
        • Thanks
      • 3 replies
    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
        • Thanks
        • Like

Fixed Sum Agreement - Termiantion Notice - help please

Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3100 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts


I took out a Fixed Sum Loan Agreementin 2009 for a car with Arnold Clark, Fortis Lease Finance. I have fallen behinddue to unemployment but need my car for my children and if a job came up andhad to travel. My difficulties started in November 2011 and have been ongoinguntil recently were I have just started working again. Could you have a read ofevents and let me know what you would do??

Via email (allkept):

23/11/11 acceptedour offer of £275.61 plus £50 towards our arrears each month. Stated if unableto make payments, car can be surrendered to them and they will sell throughauction. Giving me the shortfall balance to pay.

23/12/11 Paymentreceived

Jan 12 Set upDebt Management Plan with CCCS as unable to make payments to debt companies andneed to get on track with it all. In arrears with mortgage, gas and electricand water and these are my priorities to pay before this loan.

31/1/12 Fortisrejected offer of £13 per month in addition to monthly payment. Email pushingme to surrender car.

6/3 – 13/3/12various calls left to contact Fortis for payment as not accepting £13

15/3/12 received surrender forms to fill in forcar

22/3/12 I asked for balance of loan and how much Ihad paid off the loan to date

23/3/12 InformedFortis I would not surrender car as I would not get much through auction. Askedif I could sell the car myself (however, noted there is a HPI interest on carwith Fortis and it’s not a HPi agreement) as I would get alot more to clearbalance. Informed I would make the normal monthly payment at the end of March.

23/3/12 Informedme if the vehicle was not surrender Fortis would terminate my agreement to recoverthe full balance.

23/3/12 Fortisinformed me, Due to the level of arrears we will not enter into an arrangementwithout the vehicle being surrendered to assist in reducing the totalliability. Unfortunately I cannot elaborate further on litigation as oursolicitors would decide on the best course of action.

23/3/12 DefaultNotice sent, received 26/3/12. Payment of arrears to be paid before13/4/12. Further action; by written notice terminate the agreement on the dateshown. Require balance of £8429.33

Outstanding balance due under agreement £9090.50

Less rebate of charges £661.17

The full sum £8429.33

29/3/12 monthlypayment of £275.61 due

2/4/12 Wrote toFortis to ask if we handed car in, what was deadline. Asked if arrears werecleared (borrow money) would they allow us to continue monthly payments.

3/4/12 InformedFortis we could afford to pay £600 per month until arrears cleared as we wouldconvert mortgage to interest free until debt settled.

4/4/12 receivedreply: Please accept my apologies forthe delayed response, I was on annual leave and unable to deal.

To clarify our position on this matter; Due to the level ofarrears we are not willing to enter any arrangement unless the vehicle issurrendered. We will accept an offer of repayment on any shortfall balanceafter sales proceeds are applied.

However, if you wish to continue with the agreement then we requirefull arrears of £1,989.25 then payments to continue at the contractual amountfrom 29th April 2012.

4/4/12 DefaultNoticesent, received 6/4/12. Payment of arrears to be paidbefore 19/4/12. Further action; by written notice terminate the agreement onthe date shown. Require balance of £8417.33

Outstanding balance due under agreement £9078.50

Less rebate of charges £661.17

The full sum £8417.33

10/4/12 Paid £100

20/4/12 ReceivedTermination Notice on 23/4/12. Informing me stating I had not paid thearrears.

Arrears outstanding £1889.25

Balance of agreement £7189.25

The full sum £9078.50

My questions:

1. How has balance increased from 4/4/12 from£8417.33 to £9078.50?

2. Why have they put a Interest on thevehicle when its a Fixed Sum Agreement?

3. Can they serve another default noticewhen served a one previously before the 14 days have finished?

4. What will the court do? Will theydemand the vehicle back?

Link to post
Share on other sites


]My questions:

1. How has balance increased from 4/4/12 from£8417.33 to £9078.50?

2. Why have they put a Interest on thevehicle when its a Fixed Sum Agreement?

3. Can they serve another default noticewhen served a one previously before the 14 days have finished?

4. What will the court do? Will theydemand the vehicle back?


Sorry you've not had any replies yet.


1) You will have to ask the creditor for a statement of account to see why the balance has increased and whether any additions are legitimate. I suspect they have charges interest and fees due to your default.


2) I don't understand what you mean when you say 'a interest'?


3) I don't see why not provided that they have not terminated the agreement on the basis of the first default notice if that notice was in some way defective.


4) The court can, and frequently does, make a suspended return of goods order on the basis that monthly payments are maintained. The court can make any order it considers just and therefore can extend the term of the agreement by ordering you to pay less than the contractual instalments. The court can however order that you return the goods immediately so it is important that you engage with any court claim, file a defence and attend the hearing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly, thank you for replyin to my post. I really appreciate that.


1. The first quotes had interest rebates on reducing the figure, the final amount doesnt seem to have this on.


2. By Interest, I mean they have put a hold on the vehicle like a HPi so I cannot sell privately until finance cleared. It is definately not a HPi agreement.


3. Will I have to attend court or will I just need to fill forms in once received off court

Link to post
Share on other sites

1) I suspect that you would not be entitled to a rebate if they had to terminate the agreement due to your default and therefore it has been removed. I can however only repeat my earlier suggestion that you ask for a statement of account as without that it is just guesswork.


2) Was the agreement secured on the car at all? Is there anything in the terms and conditions which all them to fix a charge in the event of your default?


3) You *should* attend court but you are not really obliged to. If you don't then you miss the chance to go before the judge and put your case; it is always better to attend because even if you complete the forms there is no guarantee that they will be on the file for the hearing and in any event the judge is likely to be much more sympathetic if you attend. The hearing is not like on TV; there will be no wigs and gowns. You will go to the judge's chambers which is basically his office and will be allowed to speak in plain English in a relatively informal environment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Thank will do.

2. nothing in terms states secured on car. £15 per default notice.

3. I will do thank you

Just worrying as waiting for further information.

Just wanted to know my rights. I cannot afford £275 per month but cant let car go either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?

  • Create New...