vs howard cowen/santander court claim

[harrishawker]

Other half received court claim from Howard Cowen.

Original debt with GE Money(Dorothy Perkins), Taken over by Santander. Went to Viking then Lewis group, never sent a CCa request as I learned from mine just to ignore these..!

Got a Notice of Impending Legal Action from Howard..We sent a CCA request to Howard. As it turns out they sent out the court claim the same day they signed for CCA. Does this request still have the 12+2 days or is it not valid as the court claim was issued they same date..although we did not get it until 3 day after the issue date?

 

got a couple of docs for anyone to look over and comment on..been online and defended claim and going to send CPR 31.14..even though not expecting any reply!

 

Can I send a CCA request to Santander and a SAR request at the same time? Reason being, would like the CCA here quickly and not have to wait 40 days?

 

any input is appreciated..

 

pics seem to be a bit small..trying to make bigger!! few too many cans watcing GP!!

[mystery1]

Docs are to small to read.

 

One question, is this still a store card ?

 

M1

[harrishawker]

Cannot seem to get docs up to correct size...arrgghh

 

card was a store card but was terminated by santander..then default issued..?

working on docs..

[harrishawker]

off to bed..must be missing something..how to get docs up on here,,sort of copy/paste but won`t do it..

maybe tomorrow!!

[harrishawker]

post for post count

[harrishawker]

post count2

[harrishawker]

 

 

 

got it..!

[harrishawker]

Anyone know if my CCA request is still subject to 12+2 days rule? They signed for it on the same day as they issued claim. We received claim 3 days later.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[mystery1]

Yes but they can comply any time so the rule isn't really a rule anyway.

 

M1

[harrishawker]

Thanks..I get what you mean.

 

What about them not being able to issue claim until request is fulfilled, I guess if they had received it a day earlier then they couldn`t have..

[mystery1]

They can issue but if they are in default they can't win. If they are in default they can correct.

 

It's pretty bizarre but that's the way the bankers pals interpreted statute and ignored house of Lords rulings on enforcement.

 

M1

[harrishawker]

Hi

Received reply to my CPR 31.14 request. Seems to be the typical reply. Question is do I need an actual date for the new defence date, and not just a general extension of time?

If so I will need to write to Howard and get a conformation of new due date from them?

Enclosed letter from Howard

 

Many thanks in advance

David

 

[mystery1]

Looks like they are trying to sneak a judgement by default passed you.

 

I'd phone them and ask them what extension, upto 28 days, they are agreeing too and get confirmation via fax/email so you can let the court know which is your job. If they wish to stay the claim then that's up to them but what they say above is designed so you do nothing and fail to perform what is required and they get summary judgement. Sneaky sneaky barstewards.

 

When you phone make sure you are speaking to the claims handler.

 

M1

[harrishawker]

Thanks for reply..from reading others I thought that was what they were trying!! Thanks for confirming it..

 

David

[harrishawker]

*update*

Still having trouble getting a date extension for submitting defence. Will be sending another email but should I set the date and get them to agree to it? At the moment they are just saying once they receive docs they will grant me 28 days from then!

 

Another question...just found a letter from April 2011...1 line in it states "This letter serves as notice of termination of your Credit Card agreement in accordance"..bla bla. They still continued to add interest to account. Is this right?

 

Here is latest reply from Howard anyway..

 

Dear*,

*

Re: Santander Cards UK Limited - v - Yourself

Claim Number:

*

We refer to the above matter and in particular your email below dated May 2012.

*

Our previous replies dated May 2012 and April 2012 made it quite clear and concise that we would grant you an extension to file a reply to the County Court Claim Form.

*

So, therefore to make it clear, please take note of the following:

The Claimant will provide you with a reply to your CPR 31.14 request as soon as possbile;

The Claimant will then allow you 28 days to file a reply to the County Court Claim Form.

We trust that this clarifies the matter.

*

Yours sincerely

*

*

Howard Cohen & Co.

 

 

 

I think I willl start on a holding defence just in case. There are quite a few charges on account so have sent SAR to Santander to find out what. Thing is address if different on claim form to a letter from last year..!!

 

Any input welcome

D

[mystery1]

They have agreed to an extension of 28 days. This 28 days doesn't start when they supply the docs but from the existing deadline.

 

Notify the court and provide the email proof to the court with it.

 

 

 

Then you need to adapt the following to suit and change the dates to a date 14 days from the date you send it (special delivery ideally)

 

Ok so we use http://hmctscourtfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244-eng.pdf

 

Print it off and fill it in as follows.

 

Name of court etc top right of form needs filled in as appropriate.

 

1. Your name.

2. Tick defendant.

 

3. An order that unless within 14 days of the making of an order upon this application the Claimant complies with a request made by the Defendant on (date) pursuant to CPR 31.14 by the provision to the Defendant of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, namely [1] the agreement [2] the default notice and [3] the deed of assignment, the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant without further order of the court with the costs of this case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.

 

The application is made because of the Claimant's refusal to comply with the Defendant's CPR 31.14 request and the documents are required owing to the claimant claiming assignment but the defendant was unaware of this fact and to enable the proper preparation of a Defence.'

 

 

 

 

4. Tick yes.

5. tick without a hearing.

6. Leave blank.

7. None.

8. District Judge.

9. Claimant.

10. Tick the evidence set out in the box below.

 

 

In the box "On (date), following service of the Claim Form in this case, I wrote to the Claimant requesting inspection of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim pursuant to CPR 31.14. A copy of my letter of request is attached to this Form.Marked A The claimant replied via email confirming the were "looking in to the matter" A copy of this email is enclosed marked B.

 

The agreement relied upon by the Claimant is now quite old. The documents sought by my request are essential for the proper preparation of my defence and the determination of the claim and CPR 31.14 afford me a right to inspect those documents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On a separate piece of paper :-

 

 

Claim No: xxxxxx

 

Draft Order

 

1 Unless by 4:00pm on (date) the Claimant complies with a request made by the Defendant on (date) pursuant to CPR 31.14 by the provision to the Defendant of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, namely [1] the agreement [2] the default notice and [3] the deed of assignment

the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant without further order of the court, and

[ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant her costs of this case to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.

 

2 In the event that the Claimant shall comply with this order,

the Defendant shall file and serve a Defence by 4:00pm on (date) 28 days from date of application and

[ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his/her costs of this application

 

 

 

 

 

Where there is red check it's correct and alter dates etc.

 

 

 

 

M1

Edited May 11, 2012 by mystery1

[harrishawker]

It was email, but only agreed to extend once they receive docs..As they 'don`t know' when they will get the docs it could be after my defence due date of 19 May.

Just checking dates..Issue date 16 april. So should be due 19 May correct? Am typing email now agreeing to extension of 28 days from 19 May to allow them time to get docs. Get them to agree in writing.

cheers D

 

 

*edit*

just seen rest of your post...! ignore above!!

Edited May 11, 2012 by harrishawker

[mystery1]

It is ambiguous, i agree. It seems you want clarity on this and maybe that is best.

 

Call them on Monday and ask them to send clear and concise agreement. Make sure you speak to the call handler. If they refuse to send clear proof of agreement to extend by 28 days ask them how the person who signed the POCs, which contain a statement of truth, could speak to the terms of agreement when they apparently do not have them. How do they know ? Is the statement of truth actually just a guess or worse ?

 

They will agree. I helped one person this week to relay that message and they were met with stunned silence on this point. Either way you need to progress with the unless order as above as they are trying to play you.

 

The rules allow a 28 day extension but they want a stay and if they want it they can as for it. You'll say no obviously.

 

M1

[harrishawker]

many thanks as always

 

D

[consumeredge]

You need to read the POC again, Howard Cohen & Co are acting on behalf of Santander Cards UK Limited, therefore there is no "Deed of Assignment", Santander Cards Limited have not assigned the account to Howard Cohen & Co, Santander Cards UK Limited will provide copies of Statements of Account and you already have a copy of the Default Notice, what you actually need is copies of Santander Cards UK Limited "Notices of Arrears" primarily to validate the Default Notice is correct, IMO your comment " never sent a CCa request as I learned from mine just to ignore these..!" doesn't sit well with me, what Defence do you have?

[mystery1]

You need to read the POC again, Howard Cohen & Co are acting on behalf of Santander Cards UK Limited, therefore there is no "Deed of Assignment", Santander Cards Limited have not assigned the account to Howard Cohen & Co, Santander Cards UK Limited will provide copies of Statements of Account and you already have a copy of the Default Notice, what you actually need is copies of Santander Cards UK Limited "Notices of Arrears" primarily to validate the Default Notice is correct, IMO your comment " never sent a CCa request as I learned from mine just to ignore these..!" doesn't sit well with me, what Defence do you have?

 

That was a copy and paste from elsewhere and i asked that it be adapted to suit. I agree there will be no deed of assignment under 31.14 as it's not mentioned in the poc. (largely irrelevant, but this has been assigned in the past)

 

At the moment we are focussed on the lack of agreement under 31.14 which might be enough to get this kicked out or withdrawn.

 

S78 is a potential defence as he says he sent and has had no reply.

 

M1

[consumeredge]

Hi Dave,

 

The question you first asked when starting this thread was "can I send a CCA request to Santander and a SAR request at the same time? Reason being, would like the CCA here quickly and not have to wait 40 days?"

 

You might want to have a look at your previous thread, Help with Triton, please. Post 9 where DebT answered on the 30th March 2010 12:38

Yes, always subject access the original creditor, only consider a SAR’s with a DCA if they’ve been able to prove that the debt in title has been legally assigned to them.

You posted on the 11th May that you’d SAR’d Santander Cards UK whereby Howard Cohen & Co replied:

So, therefore to make it clear, please take note of the following:

The Claimant will provide you with a reply to your CPR 31.14 request as soon as possible;

The Claimant will then allow you 28 days to file a reply to the County Court Claim Form.

We trust that this clarifies the matter.

 

 

IMO, that’s pretty self explanatory and would defeat any "Unless Order" you might consider applying for.

 

Howard Cohen & Co will merely send a copy of their letter to you to the court; the court will apply a stay and refuse your application for costs. As to the comment (largely irrelevant, but this has been assigned in the past) to whom? Because if true, you would have received a Notice of Assignment from the Assignor, or the Assignee. There’s no mention of this in your thread other than the account was first passed to Viking Collections? Who we all know are the Debt Collectors based in Leeds that Santander Cards UK first use to collect bad debts.

 

If you want to end this and importantly do agree you owe monies to Santander Cards UK Limited, I would suggest you propose to Howard Cohen you would be willing to consider a Consent Order.

 

Potential defences?…..

1 The lack of agreement under 31.14 which might be enough to get this kicked out or withdrawn

2 As he says he sent and has had no reply

 

Your defence must be based on points of law, I struggle to think what defence you will be able to offer when the documents you have requested are in your possesion and you have 28 days to submit a full defence.

 

Apologies if this post appears downbeat but you must be made fully aware of the consequenses ahead.

 

Kind regards

 

C

[mystery1]

Per the op, Original debt with GE Money(Dorothy Perkins), Taken over by Santander.

 

M1

[harrishawker]

Hi

Thanks for replies..at work last night so couldn`t reply.

Have sent SAR to Santander to find out how much of the amount is made up of costs. Would I include this in the Defence or leave it until we find out how much is made up of costs?

 

Other half phoned the court just out of curiosity to see if the letter/email from HC was enough to extend by 28 days. Answer was no as it had no exact date for when it was to be extended to. She was advised to file defence with what she had with a view to include more when the documents arrive, and to include letter/email from HC.

 

She doesn`t have original agreement as this goes back a looong way, try and get dates later.

 

I guess will put in a holding defence for lack of agreement and unknown charges, with right to amend at a later date.

cheers

D

Edited May 16, 2012 by harrishawker

[harrishawker]

Regarding the Default Notice. I thought it had to have something like, you have x no.of days to pay from xx xx xxxx date. Not you have x no.of days to pay from receiving this letter.

 

D