Being prosecuted by South West trains. Could it be a criminal conviction?

[vb44]

Sorry it's perhaps not what you wanted to hear, but I should have added to the long message above.

 

The amount that you have been ordered to pay by the Court is due by 30th March as they specify.

 

If you do not intend to appeal the sentence and are going to make payment that should now be paid in full, but if this payment will cause you immediate hardship or difficulty, you should contact the 'Fines Officer' at the Court where your case was heard without delay.

 

The address will be on the papers that you have received, and you should explain the difficulty and ask for time to pay.

 

The Fines Officer will be able to set up a repayment plan by manageable instalments, which you must keep to until it is cleared.

 

If you have difficulty in making any instalment then you must again contact the Fines Officer to request any variation.

 

Hi Old-CodJA,

 

Sorry to bring this up again after all these years

 

 

but I have received a letter from South West Trains Prosecuting Office

saying they are reviewing my case and I have 14 days to provide any mitigating circumstances.

 

 

"My Case" is being on a train without a ticket due to the machine not being working.

 

 

I didn't buy one at the interchange and so although not happy about it,

I am willing to accept that I am guilty.

 

 

My concern comes over whether I will have a criminal record at the end of this

i.e. what is the full extent of the prosecution?

 

 

I can deal with a fine but really don't want to have criminal record.

 

Thanks,

vb44

[Old-CodJA]

HiOld-CodJA,

 

Sorry to bring this up again after all these years but I have received a letter from South West Trains Prosecuting Office saying they are reviewing my case and I have 14 days to provide any mitigating circumstances. "My Case"is being on a train without a ticket due to the machine not being working. Ididn't buy one at the interchange and so although not happy about it, I am willing to accept that I am guilty. My concern comes over whether I will havea criminal record at the end of this i.e. what is the full extent of the prosecution? I can deal with a fine but really don't want to have criminal record.

 

Thanks,

 

vb44

 

This will depend on what charge they actually put before the Court.

 

Only conviction for 'intent to avoid a fare' ( RRA Section 5. (1889)) will be likely to have a detrimental effect as an enhanced CRB check will disclose it

 

If you are charged with breach of National Railway Byelaw 18 (2005), this is a strict liability matter and much easier for the prosecution to prove, conviction is what is known as 'non-recordable' and the fine will also be correspondingly lower.

 

If there were genuinely no facilities available to get a ticket before you were checked you should say so and ask the company to accept payment of the fare only.

 

If there were facilities to get a ticket before you were checked and you accept that you are guilty of the breach of Byelaw, you could try writing to the rail company and ask if they will consider an out of Court disposal. The main points of your letter should be as follows:

 

i) Offer an unreserved apology to the company and staff concerned,

 

ii) Stress that this was an out of character action for which you are genuinely sorry

 

iii) Explain that if you are prosecuted and convicted this will have a wholly disproportionate effect on your future employment .

 

iv) Offer to pay any unpaid fare/s and all of the reasonable costs incurred by the company in dealing with this matter , all of which you recognise arise as a result of your actions

 

v) Give a written undertaking not to travel without a valid ticket on any journey in future.

 

The company are not obliged to accept your offer, but will give your letter consideration.

 

The prosecution costs applied for in any successful prosecution are normally in the region of £120 - £150 so you might consider making an offer based on that knowledge.

 

If they agree this will need to be paid in full immediately.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[vb44]

Thanks for the reply. Im being charged under section 5)3)c) as I stupidly gave a false name and address in frustration before giving my real one. Does this mean I'll have a criminal record then? Will I still be able to settle out of court if I'm not being charged under a bylaw?

[Old-CodJA]

There is no guarantee that any TOC will allow an out of Court disposal and giving false details does make it much more likely that you are charged with the more serious matter, as you have been. That fact will make it less likely that they will accept settlement, but you never know, it's worth a try.

 

Yes, if you do not succeed in getting a settlement and are then convicted (or plead guilty) this will result in a criminal conviction.

[Stigy]

If you supplied false details too, then there's every chance SWT will prosecute under S5(3)a and 5(3)c of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, as supplying a false name and address could quite easily be seen as you wanting to avoid any further contact, and thus paying the fare due when it would have been requested as part of the prosecution, or in settlement.

 

Edit: Just seen that you are being charged under S.5(3)c...And, I assume 5(3)a

[honeybee13]

Hello vb44.

 

I'm moving these posts to a new thread rather than adding to a 2009 one. Please continue to post on this one.

 

My best, HB

[firstclassx]

Were you arrested by the Revenue Protection Inspector? 5(2) gives them the power of arrest for failing to have a ticket and not providing your (correct) details. I would be interested to know whether SWT do this, although it isn't really relevant.

 

I don't think you will be charged with 5(3a) as well as 5(3c), because it is effectively the same offence, except in addition to not having a ticket, you provided false details, making it more serious than 5(3a).

 

5(3c) also does not require proof that there was any "intent" to avoid paying the fare. Unusual for 5(3c) to be used in my experience though. A 5(3a) offence is usually more typical, supplemented with Transport Act 2000, S219/ Byelaw 23 breach.

[Stigy]

Were you arrested by the Revenue Protection Inspector? 5(2) gives them the power of arrest for failing to have a ticket and not providing your (correct) details. I would be interested to know whether SWT do this, although it isn't really relevant.

 

I don't think you will be charged with 5(3a) as well as 5(3c), because it is effectively the same offence, except in addition to not having a ticket, you provided false details, making it more serious than 5(3a).

 

5(3c) also does not require proof that there was any "intent" to avoid paying the fare. Unusual for 5(3c) to be used in my experience though. A 5(3a) offence is usually more typical, supplemented with Transport Act 2000, S219/ Byelaw 23 breach.

Although it my look a bit ambiguos on paper, the idea is that the 5(3)a and 5(3)c go hand in hand in most cases, as if somebody goes to the extent of supplying incorrect details, proving they intended to dodge the initial fare is much more easy, due to the dishonesty involved. You can use the two offences together, as 5(3)c alone doesn't necessarily prove intent. Only 5(3)b can obviously not be used as well as 5(3)a.

 

SWT inspectors won't have arrested.

[Old-CodJA]

Although it my look a bit ambiguos on paper, the idea is that the 5(3)a and 5(3)c go hand in hand in most cases, as if somebody goes to the extent of supplying incorrect details, proving they intended to dodge the initial fare is much more easy, due to the dishonesty involved. You can use the two offences together, as 5(3)c alone doesn't necessarily prove intent. Only 5(3)b can obviously not be used as well as 5(3)a. SWT inspectors won't have arrested.

 

Stigy is spot-on. This will normally see two charges. 5.3.a 'intent to avoid a fare' and 5.3.c 'gave false details'. They are two distinct offences, 'c' is supplemental to 'a' and on conviction, both carry the same potential penalty.