BANK OF SCOTLAND unable to uphold PPI complaint. PLEASE HELP

[Eric40]

* Can you help please.

I am looking for advice on behalf of my partner.

 

He was diagnosed with a brain tumour back in 2009 and doesn’t need the added stress of dealing with debt so I have been managing it for him.

 

He has various debts which were originally with the Bank of Scotland.

They were passed on to Blair Oliver Scott when he failed to make his payments.

When he was in hospital for 5 months I was able to set up direct debits for him and now he has made serious dents in what he owes.

 

He has three debts to Blair Oliver Scott which he is paying monthly.

One is a credit card, the other two are loans.

 

I filled out a form online for him about 6 weeks ago re PPI on all three of these debts.

He received a letter from the BoS asking him to go into his nearest branch and update his address etc.

He did that straight away.

 

He then received another letter a few days ago asking him to do this again.

I was just about to post a letter from him, stating that he has already done so,

when he received a letter through the post from the same customer services advisor stating that they have

 

not ‘found sufficient evidence to agree with your allegations that your PPI policy was mis-sold. As such I am unable to uphold your complaint’.

The letter goes on to say:

‘As part of my review, I have considered whether you were eligible for the policy and whether the policy was suitable for you.

I have also taken into account each of the concerns you raised with us in your complaint

and I can confirm that I did not identify any other issues when reviewing your file.

 

Having completed all of these steps, I went on to look at your complaint as a whole to ensure that we acted fairly towards you in relation to the sale of your PPI policy,

giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence.

 

I am sorry that you felt the need to complain about your PPI and appreciate that my full decision may be of disappointment to you.

However, I can assure you that I have fully investigated your complaint and all the surrounding circumstances.

 

The letter also states that someone tried to call my partner but they were unsuccessful, he hasn’t received any calls.

 

They have given him an FOS leaflet and said he has the right to refer to the FOS.

 

I am still going to send the letter stating that he has visited his branch with identification etc because this letter re PPI not upheld only refers to his outstanding credit card and not the loans.

 

I know for a fact that he did not understand what PPI was, he is awful when it comes to finances and got himself in a bit of a state some years back.

He doesn’t even understand about interest etc and pretty hopeless when it comes to facts and figures.

 

I have sorted it all so that he has since Nov 2009 been paying monthly direct debts to all of these outstanding debts.

 

Can someone advise us on what to do next?

He first took out this credit card in 2002,

it states that ‘prior to 2005 the sale of PPI was not regulated by the FOS,

however, we were members of The General Insurance Standards Council (GISC)’.

 

The form that I filled out in his name re PPI and sent by email stated:

 

1) That he didn’t know he had PPI (This is so true, he doesn’t know what it is)

2) He was not told that PPI was included in the price he was paying (again so true).

3) The policy exclusions weren’t explained to him before at the time he took the insurance.

You were therefore unable to make an informed decision as to whether the insurance was appropriate.

(He doesn’t recall anyone sitting and explaining what it is or how it would be added to what he was already paying.

 

Also the letter states that he must respond within 28 days from the date of the letter (13 April) otherwise they will consider the matter resolved.

 

Can you please advise me on what to do next please,

I want to him help him with this because it’s shocking that he has paid out on insurance he knew nothing about.

 

For the record he did this with building insurance.

He was paying it twice, through his factor and on his mortgage,

I noticed it and got him a rebate from his mortgage company.

It just shows you that he really doesn’t know.

 

Thanks in advance.

Erica x

[ims21]

I would write back and say that you acknowledge what appears to be standard "bog off" letter which seems to indicate that a full investigation has not been carried out.

 

Ask them how they justify the fact that this PPI was put on the loan without his knowledge, why the true cost was not explained and why the exclusions were not explained. Tell them that you want specific answers to these points so that you can provide a full report to fos when you hand it to them.

 

Were these loans/cards taken out before his illness?

 

Also wait a while for the other two complaints to come back (they have 8 weeks)....if there is no response then you can hand them straight to fos with a note saying that the bank have failed to investigate within the permitted time.

 

Was it a fos questionnaire you completed online?

 

ims

[Eric40]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.

 

I have copied part of the letter here if it helps. Is this a standard bog off letter? I would imaging that they state similar to most that complain? My other half has a mountain of debts that he is paying off every month and meeting all the payments, he got himself into this mess paying insurance of debts like this and also high interest rates, he really doesn't have a clue about these things at all. He wasn't ill when he took it out although none of us know how long he actually had the brain tumour for. I don't want to bring his illness into things when he is now on the road to recovery. They are unaware that I am the one helping him with this. The questionnaire I filled in for him was on the Which? website. Thank you so much for your advice, it's all very overwhelming and makes me angry when I think about the amounts he has been paying and completely unaware of what he was paying. Thanks. Erica.

 

It states that it carried out a full investigation, taking into consideration:

 

• Your complaint
  
• Your consumer credit agreement
  
• Our knowledge of our sales process and documentation at the time
  
• Your sales documentation
  

All your complaint points have been fully considered. For clarity, I have addressed your allegations under the following headings.

 

• Policy and Features and Limitations - Were the policy benefits and exclusions explained to your clearly?
  
• Cost of the policy - Was the cost of the PPI policy explained to you?
  
• Consent to cover - Did you agree to take out the PPI policy?
  

Complaint point 1 - Consent to cover:

The Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) shows that we require additional consent in the form of a tick in the box and then a signature to confirm you wanted a PPI policy to be added to your credit card. I am persuaded that this required a verbal explanation ensuring that you were made aware of what you were purchasing.

It can therefore be concluded that you did knowingly consent to the addition of a PPI policy to your credit card.

Relating to complaint point 2 - Cost of the policy

When you purchased the policy you were provided with a CCA. You were required to sign this document. The cost of your PPI policy was explained in its own section before the tick box. This allowed you to read the information before ticking the box to state that you wanted the cover.

In light of the above I am satisfied that you were informed of the cost of you PPI policy.

Relating to complaint point 3 - Policy Features and Limitations

The documentation that you were provided with both at the point of sale and after purchasing your PPI policy, such as the summary of the policy and policy booklet, fully explained the benefits of this policy. I am also of the opinion that where it was practical the features of the policy were discussed at the point of sale.

Having considered all the available evidence including the policy booklet, I have come to the conclusion that the features of the policy were adequately presented to you.

Conclusion

In light of my findings, I feel that our adviser acted fairly and reasonably throughout the sale.

I believe that the information provided at the time of sale was a fair presentation of the features of the policy and explained the policy excursions and the cost of insurance. I am also of the opinion that it was clear, fair and not misleading therefore allowing you to make a fully informed choice.

My review has not highlighted any failings with the sale that would lead me to believe your decision to purchase the PPI policy would have changed.

I trust that I have clearly explained the reasons for my decision. However, if you do not agree with my decision please contact us on **** or write in providing further supporting evidence to support your claim. I will consider any additional information and advise you whether that changes my decision. If I do not hear from you within twenty eight days from the date of this letter I will close your compliant and consider it resolved.

In the event that you remain unhappy with my decision, you have the right to refer your complaint to the FOS. Any referral to the FOS must be made within six months of the date of this letter. I enclose a copy of the FOS's leaflet about its service.

[ims21]

Our knowledge of our sales process and documentation at the time

 

That means nothing.

 

I still think it is a "bog off" letter which, if it were me, I'd challenge as above.

 

Sometimes they change their stance if they know you are going to make a pest of yourself

 

ims

[Eric40]

Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated. I will write back stating what you said above re standard bog off letter and

PPI explanation etc. I will let you know what happens.

 

Many thanks again. Erica

[Eric40]

Hello, I thought I'd post an update on the above and let everyone know how we are getting on with my partners issues. We contacted the FOS, filled in all the relevant forms for his accounts he was most definitely mis-sold PPI for. They have sent him a letter back saying they now have all the relevant info they need to set up a case, I sent them as much as we could. I can imagine this can all take some time, but just glad things have moved forward quite a bit. He continues to pay a DB every month to Blair Oliver and Scott who are looking after his accounts. I sent them letters quite a while back asking for statements of all the payments he has made for each of the three accounts he is paying. Whilst my partner was sick in hospital he was paying a lot towards each of them to try and bring them down and we want to see exactly what he has paid. The Bank of Scotland on the back of the letter to Blair Oliver and Scott sent back a copy of the statements for only one of the accounts, I asked for it to be dated back to the start of 2009 until today. We are still waiting on statements for the other two accounts, this has been going on since May. We sent out another letter in July direct to the person at the Bank of Scotland who sent out the copies for one of the accounts. We have still heard nothing back. I'm getting a bit suspicious and think something is wrong. I have noticed extra payments coming from his bank account during 2009/2010 that I cannot account for but going to one of these accounts. I am a little suspicious and think that he may have actually finished paying one of these debts and overpaid. Will keep you up-to-date with progress.

[Eric40]

Hello, another update for ims21 and any one else out there with PPI complaints. My other half has received 3 cheques for PPI which is fantastic news, we only chased this up in June so this has been very quick. It's very odd though and perhaps someone can help. He was claiming for three different debts he is paying off and we went through all the forms with the FOS. To be honest we thought it would be a long time before we ever heard anything back. The three cheques have different account numbers from what he is claiming for, in fact they don't match up at all. I gather that the FOS contact the BOS and it stems from there? I gather that a loan/credit card can have a roll number, sort code, account number and big long number? Not complaining, he is delighted to have received something back. He's waiting on letters coming from them to state how they calculated the figures, as it was not for as much as he anticipated. Do you know how they work this out?

 

Thanks in advance.

Erica

[ims21]

This is good news and well done for sticking with it

 

As far as matching the payments to the accounts on which you claimed, I would wait for the letters from the lender for each individual breakdown. That may well give you the clues to match the refunds to the relevant accounts.

 

For loans you should get back all of the premiums paid plus any associated interest charged by the bank. In addition you would get back 8% interest on each payment made running from the date of payment to the date of settlement. This total is reduced by any rebate of PPI which may have been made if a loan was settled early.

 

For a credit card you get the premiums back plus any associated interest. In addition the account is reconstructed with the PPI removed and if for any period the reconstructed balance shows it to be on credit then 8% interest is awarded on that credit balance for that period. If the card has been paid off, there will be a difference between what was actually paid off and the reconstructed balance at that time and 8% simple interest is awarded on that difference running from the date the account was paid off right up to the date of settlement of the claim.

 

How did you work out how much you should be receiving?

[Eric40]

Oh thanks for replying so quickly. To be honest I didn't work it out for him, I had no idea how to do that and no documentation. His loans were pretty massive and he is still paying them off to a debt collector linked to BoS but they stopped the interest etc on them so he just pays a standing order every month. Once the letters come in with breakdowns it will be interesting to see how it is calculated and will definitely look at the info you have provided me with so thank you very much.

I have written letters to Blair Oliver Scott the debt companies for him requesting settlement figures and hoping he can perhaps pay at least one of them off. So all his cheques will basically be going straight back towards any debts, a shame really but so worth it. I have also written to Blair Oliver Scott for the third time since July requesting statements for each of his debts, showing what payments he had made etc, I gather he is in his rights to do this? It's strange they send one lot of statements out which came direct from BoS so Blair Oliver Scott must have passed the letter on, but he's had nothing back re the other two. They are dragging their heels with this which is very strange. I want to trace what he has actually paid. Looking through his bank account their are amounts paid to debts which I can't account for. Can you advise on this, do debt collection companies have to show statements? I have asked for details back to January 2009. Many thanks in advance. Erica:-)

[ims21]

Hi

 

Well Blair Oliver Scott are in fact Bank of Scotland....same company.

 

If you want to get absolutely all data that the lender holds then send them a Subject Access Request (SAR). There is a template in the CAG library, the link to which is at the top of every CAG page in green. The cost is £10 and they will have 40 days to comply.

 

Make sure there is a line added to say that the SAR is to include copies of all and any agreements you have ever had with them.

 

You may find that there are unlawful charges on the account which could be reclaimed too (plus the interest on them).

[Eric40]

Oh thanks you know I think I'll do this. Can I send one SAR for all his three accounts with £10? I think over the years he has had tons of charges, he got himself into such difficulty and a little scared to be honest instead of confronting the situation.

[ims21]

Yes you can do one SAR for all accounts. You can list known account numbers at the header of the letter but stipulate in the body of the letter that it does not only relate to those accounts but ALL and ANY accounts ever held by them.

 

So one £10 payment is all that is needed.

[Eric40]

Oh brilliant, I've just printed his letter off and it's ready for posting. I'm now away to try and tackle his Northern Rock debt and have a sore head just thinking about it.

 

Thank you so much for your help, you have no idea how much it's appreciated, having someone give advice like this means everything I couldn't of helped him without you. Have a lovely evening! Erica

[ims21]

Thank you and good luck.

 

Please keep us updated and if you need help with the NR stuff just shout.

[Eric40]

Thank you I most certainly will especially if it helps others. The NR stuff I do need help with and not sure where to start to be honest. I got my other half to write to them a while back requesting a copy of his original agreement which they sent out. I still cannot understand why he signed it, the interest is unbelievable, but he honestly doesn't know any better and trusts too much.

He took out a mortgage in November 2004 for £71,245.00 along with an unsecured loan £22,498.00

He sold his flat back in December 2008 but still now has the unsecured loan to pay. The initial interest rate was 7.1% but having paid off the mortgage with the sale of his flat the it states that the unsecured loan will increase to 5.00% above the current standard variable rate for mortgages. He is not making the slightest dent in what he owes the interest he is paying is shocking and he will be paying it off for the next 20 years. He had no idea what he was letting himself in for and has got himself in a right mess with this one.

I have bits and pieces of statements and I'm sure you can imagine the interest he is paying is on par with the monthly DB he is paying so it's going to take forever just based on the interest rate, it's criminal!

Also I've noticed on a statement back in 2007 where he must have asked for help and on the statement they have charged him £52.88 for debt counselling and £30.00 for solicitor help, I can only guess that he's seeked help from them when falling behind with payments and they've increased his debt by charging him for the service, that's nuts!

Should I be issuing some sort of SAR on this based on the charges and is there something else I can do to help him re the interest rate?

 

I'm on a role tonight and doing as much as I can.

 

Many thanks again!!!

Erica

[thomas0309]

Yes this a standard bogof letter. I have received an almost word for word letter from the Bank of Scotland.

[thomas0309]

I applied to the BOS to reclaim PPI I had on a credit card. I was informed by letter that my claim had been turned down as I was self employed and my PPI did not cover this. This was even when I pointed out that I had an Annual Review of Optional Payment Protection Insurance on your Credit Card and and the section on ELIGIBILITY states "TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR COVER YOU MUST BE ON THE START DATE" in paid work under a contract of employment or self employed paying the the appropriate class of national insurance. Recently I have been advised to resubmit my claim amid recent reports of an investigation into the call centre's who were handling PPI claims.