Vodafone - termination fee

[Moebius]

Hi,

 

I have been behind with vodafone payments after some financial disasters, but i was trying to keep up up todate and eventually catch up.

 

They changed tactics recently and cancelled my contract, despite me having previsouly asked them for help and to go on to a lower tariff they were not at all helpful.

 

Now i have been told by Commercial Credit Management Ltd that I owe

Debt collection fee: £97.94

Termination Charge for not completing your contract: £577.97

Unpaid usage and line rental: £74.94 - total £750.85

I don't dispute that I owed them money I just wanted some help in sorting it out.

Is this all quite normal with mobile phone companies and their credit agreements?

Regards

Moebius

[locutus]

Follow this advice

Hi CAG members,

We thought it would be nice to introduce ourselves and to assure you all that our presence on CAG is with the very best of intentions.

vodafone UK has recently introduced a dedicated Web Relations Team which is keen to seek out customers who’re having difficulties with their accounts and feel that they have no other place to turn to than CAG and other consumer forums and blogs.

Naturally, it’s not possible for us to help directly with account specific queries on CAG and as such we would encourage those members who feel we can help them to contact us privately at [email protected] quoting ‘WRT135 – CAG Forum’ in the subject line to ensure that it reaches the Web Relations Team.

When emailing us we would also ask that you either provide us with a link to your post or thread – if you’ve posted in another member’s thread please also provide your CAG username so that we can check what your query is.

 

and see if Lee can help.

 

Personally, I see no point whatsoever in paying a debt collector. If Lee cannot help, personally I'd ignore it. They're on dodgy grounds asking for the entire cost of the contract IMO so I doubt this will see the inside of a court, They are defiantly on unlawful grounds adding a "debt collection fee" as you have no contract with them numpties so how can they charge you a fee?

[BankFodder]

The termination fee is unenforceable unless they can show that they were put tho these expesnes as a result of any losses incurred. If Vodafone approve of these or support then in any way then both the debt collector and Vodafone should be reported to Trading Standards and to the OFT.

This fee is unenforceable. Do not pay it.

However, be prepared for strong-arm tactics to harass you into paying.

They won't take you to court but they will very likely take all other action short of going to court in order to force you to pay.

Why won't they take you to court?

Because the fee is unenforceable and they would lose in court

[Moebius]

Thank you both for your help, i have written to their webteam as you say and I will notify the debt collector that the account is in dispute.

[2Grumpy]

Hi,

 

I have been behind with vodafone payments after some financial disasters, but i was trying to keep up up todate and eventually catch up.

 

They changed tactics recently and cancelled my contract, despite me having previsouly asked them for help and to go on to a lower tariff they were not at all helpful.

 

Now i have been told by Commercial Credit Management Ltd that I owe

Debt collection fee: £97.94

Termination Charge for not completing your contract: £577.97

Unpaid usage and line rental: £74.94 - total £750.85

I don't dispute that I owed them money I just wanted some help in sorting it out.

Is this all quite normal with mobile phone companies and their credit agreements?

Regards

Moebius

 

They were particularly unhelpful in not reducing your tariff

 

The termination fee is unenforceable unless they can show that they were put tho these expesnes as a result of any losses incurred. If Vodafone approve of these or support then in any way then both the debt collector and Vodafone should be reported to Trading Standards and to the OFT.

This fee is unenforceable. Do not pay it.

However, be prepared for strong-arm tactics to harass you into paying.

They won't take you to court but they will very likely take all other action short of going to court in order to force you to pay.

Why won't they take you to court?

Because the fee is unenforceable and they would lose in court

 

Maybe this should be the next campaign

 

Orange backed down when challenged in these circumstances. They would not supply an invoice or breakdown detailing exactly what the disconnection charge was for

 

We all know that this is really partly their expected profit and partly the recovery of the cost of the phone that was supplied "free" in order to circumvent the CCA & paying for the cost of the phone monthly. (Orange's first response was that they might drop their charges if the phone was returned, which obviously confused me)

 

Mobile companies seem to want payment for not providing a service. They should either provide the service and recover the debt or cut you off & cancel the contract. The same goes for cutting you off if you are late paying your bill.

 

The whole area of pricing is a nightmare with few people using all of their bundle (they are costed like that) and usually high prices for calls that exceed the inclusive allowance. It all looks like cross-subsidisation to keep the headline price low for new customers and an incentive to go for higher packages to avoid their out of package charges.

[Bang!]

Its quite strange that the cancellation fee seems based on the remainder of your contract, and they want to charge you - but not let you make the calls.

 

So its clear there's no incentive to drop the monthly fee to an affordable tariff, when they can seek the higher amount, and offer nothing back in return.

 

Buying your phone, then using PAYG tends to avoid most abuse by mobile companies. Avoiding the big four and using a piggybacking service is normally cheaper too.

[locutus]

Avoiding the big four and using a piggybacking service is normally cheaper too.

 

Personally I find Customer Support even worse in these scenarios. If you get a problem the virtual provider blames the network and the network blames the virtual provider. Asda (virtual provider using Vodafone) and Tesco (virtual provider using o2) are big enough names to offer high enough service levels, but they're not as cheap as other "virtual providers" such as GiffGaff so regarding the customer service aspect I guess you do get what you pay for on some level.

[Moebius]

Thanks for you help in this, it is much appreciated.

 

The Debt Collection agency has responded:

 

You have entered in to a 24 month contract and failed to complete the time in full. Your termination fee is the remainder of your line rental added together.

The fee you have received from our company is also in your contract stating ‘failure to pay the amount owed to Vodafone will result in your account being passed to a third party and will incur additional fees’.

Does this change anything?

I was thinking of making a formal complaint to Vodaphone. (Although I will wait to hear back from their Web team before I do)

 

Regards

Moebius

[BankFodder]

It changes nothing.

 

You are only required to cover their losses.

 

See also reg.5 UTCCR and appendix 2 - possible para.e (I can't remember offhand)

 

The DCA are acting as agents for VF. I think that this is very possibly an unfair commerical practice - per CPUT

[Moebius]

Thankyou for that information Bankfodder.

 

Looks like i should pay the unpaid useage and line rental, and dispute the rest. The latest response from the DCA says

"I would strongly advise you to read your Terms & Conditions before any complaint is logged or OFCOM will not look at your dispute without any hard evidence in which you feel Vodafone are unable to enforce this debt."

[Moebius]

Latest response. (Ignored my question about being an agent)

Whoever/Wherever you are getting you information you are being wrongly advised.

You have entered in to a legally binding 24month contract and have failed to complete this term, as a result you have been charged for the remainder of that contract.

This is the same for all mobile phone providers not just Vodafone. This is all stated in your Terms and Conditions.

As previously advised the best option is to put your case forward to OFCOM who are the governing body for telecommunication companies and mobile phone providers.

If they believe you have a valid dispute then they will contact Vodafone on your behalf.

[BankFodder]

I think that to claim the moral highground, that you should formally ask them to justiufy their charge by means of a proper detailed invoice.

Once you get that, you will pay it.

 

They will be unable to provide you with this - or they will refuse or fudge.

 

Do that now - and keep on at them.

Yes of course, you should pay for usage but only line rental for a reasonable cancellation period - say, 1 month.

Make sure that you have itemeised commpletely the basis for your payment and ask them for a similarly itemised invoice which you will be pleased to pay.

[Moebius]

Thanks.

I will do as you suggest.

Do you mean I should itemise the payments I have made so far or my final offer of payment?

[2Grumpy]

Write telling them that you do not have an invoice for the termination charge and cannot consider payment until you have received a proper, fully itemised invoice and a justification for the charge and that regardless of any contract conditions you will not be liable for any unlawful or unenforceable charges.

[silverfox1961]

Hi

The Vodafone Debt Collection/Termination/admin fee is nothing of the sort.

 

Vodafone charge 15% or £100 whichever is the lower. They cannot do this as it is profiteering. This is not the actual cost to them for pushing a couple of buttons.

 

Now, the DCA (Freds in this instance) charged Vodafone a 12% fee for collecting the debt which is fair enough. That is a business deal. Vodafone charge you 15% (3% over what Freds charge) so even there they are trying it on

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Moebius and all,

 

It's just a quick update to this thread to confirm that this matter is in hand.

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[ShaneG2009]

The termination fee is unenforceable unless they can show that they were put tho these expesnes as a result of any losses incurred. If Vodafone approve of these or support then in any way then both the debt collector and Vodafone should be reported to Trading Standards and to the OFT.

This fee is unenforceable. Do not pay it.

However, be prepared for strong-arm tactics to harass you into paying.

They won't take you to court but they will very likely take all other action short of going to court in order to force you to pay.

Why won't they take you to court?

Because the fee is unenforceable and they would lose in court

 

Bank Fodder...interesting post.

 

The Default Sum i have with VF consists of over 60 - 70%% of this so called Termination Charge. I've been through the mill and back again with them to get the DN removed but they never budged an inch, not even the top bloke would respond to me. I'm now 3 weeks into a review period with the ICO looking into this issue and i eagerly await to see what their position is.

 

Even if they (the ICO) dont provide a satisfactory response (something inside me says this might be the case) i am prepared to take Vodafone to court.

[BankFodder]

You will have to take them to court. The ICO will do nothing.

 

VF will take you to the line and if they eventually offer to pay you out, you should not accept any deal unless they clear your credit file.

[ShaneG2009]

BF

 

I expect ICO to take that line - i assumed this when i sent them a 5 page (A4) dosier on my dealings / complaints against Vodafone and their complaint summary covered half a page. I made sure i re-attached my complaint in full when i signed their authorisation forms etc.

 

Funny thing is i've told VF on a number of occasions i WILL NOT seek recovery of the terminations fee's / compensation in return for the removal of the Default however they have continually refused. That said, they never even gave me a proper response to the letters i issued under the DPA.

 

I am more than sure if i do need to go to court i can rely on the assistance of you guys when drafting the particulars etc.?

[locutus]

Follow this advice

Hi CAG members,

We thought it would be nice to introduce ourselves and to assure you all that our presence on CAG is with the very best of intentions.

vodafone UK has recently introduced a dedicated Web Relations Team which is keen to seek out customers who’re having difficulties with their accounts and feel that they have no other place to turn to than CAG and other consumer forums and blogs.

Naturally, it’s not possible for us to help directly with account specific queries on CAG and as such we would encourage those members who feel we can help them to contact us privately at [email protected] ne.co.uk quoting ‘WRT135 – CAG Forum’ in the subject line to ensure that it reaches the Web Relations Team.

When emailing us we would also ask that you either provide us with a link to your post or thread – if you’ve posted in another member’s thread please also provide your CAG username so that we can check what your query is.

and see if Lee can help.

 

Personally, I see no point whatsoever in paying a debt collector. If Lee cannot help, personally I'd ignore it. They're on dodgy grounds asking for the entire cost of the contract IMO so I doubt this will see the inside of a court, They are defiantly on unlawful grounds adding a "debt collection fee" as you have no contract with them numpties so how can they charge you a fee?

Have you tried that Shane?

[ShaneG2009]

Hi Locotus

 

Yes, i've been in contact with Lee through various stages but unfortunately he is restricted in what he can do due to Vodafone's global policy. They simply dont being told when they are wrong and they seek to go through down the long road to getting things resolved.

 

I really wish someone in a position of power would take them to task so they cease poor / unlawful operational practises. We can dream i suppose.

[BankFodder]

BF

 

I expect ICO to take that line - i assumed this when i sent them a 5 page (A4) dosier on my dealings / complaints against Vodafone and their complaint summary covered half a page. I made sure i re-attached my complaint in full when i signed their authorisation forms etc.

 

Funny thing is i've told VF on a number of occasions i WILL NOT seek recovery of the terminations fee's / compensation in return for the removal of the Default however they have continually refused. That said, they never even gave me a proper response to the letters i issued under the DPA.

 

I am more than sure if i do need to go to court i can rely on the assistance of you guys when drafting the particulars etc.?

 

What on earth makes you think that VF are interested in saving a few quid off you on any kind of deal. I hear this all the time with people challenging their banks and offering to waive a few charges or not to close their account in return for removal of a credit file entry.

 

Don't you realise that you are offering them less than bonbons? Don't you realise that the real issue IS you credit file and that they would rather kill their grandmothers than alter a credit file entry.

 

I think that you are going to have to re-align your thinking if you want to deal with this problem at all - and that goes for anyone else in remotely the same boat.

[ShaneG2009]

BF

 

In some industries offering something in return is an accepted form of negotiation. Please be assured that this offer was made clearly out of naivity. When i started this i thought VF were a reasonable business (you assume this because they are allowed to trade on a daily basis). I have quickly learned this may not be the case and that is why i spent a day going through every single detail on my credit file. The mistakes / abnormailities / unlawful practises that i think i have uncovered within my dealings with Vodafone are truly unbelieveable hence the reason why i have stepped up my pursuit of the default removal.

 

Shane

[ShaneG2009]

BankFodder

 

So it appears your advise of 6 months ago was spot on.

 

Took my complaint to the ICO and the Ombudsman and this is the summary: -

 

ICO were useless and had no appitite to punish VF for obvious breaches of the DPA

 

The Ombudsman took on my complaint and after 3 months issued VF with their final decision. Part of this final decision was for VF to provide me with a detailed history of the default including a calculation of the termination fee. Vodafone missed their deadline but this morning the Ombudsman have issued me with a letter advising they are happy for Vodafone to have an extension because VF have them told theyve sent the letter out...what a load of BS!!!!

 

I've now sent details to my lawyer and will see how things go from here. I am determined to get this sorted / resolved even if the outcome is that i am barking up the wrong tree and Vodafone are allowed to act in this manner.

 

I'd be interested to hear how SilverFox got on with his 2011 complaint for a similar issue.

 

In the last 6 months i have worked to resolve my 'credit score' which now stands at 994 or Excellent with Experian. Despite this, i still cannot get any form of credit because of this Default. This is despite me having little debt, a good job / salary etc.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[HIteshChauhan]

I have had reason to call Vodafone today about cancelling my contract. They were rude and slagged me off without putting me on hold!

I am a One Net customer and pay just under £70 per month in rental... for what I do not know!

Managers have promised ot call me back to no avail- the are too busy and Vodafone expect me to sympathise with their staffing levels!!