Washing machine now out of warranty but on going issues

[chomerly]

Hi all,

 

I have an Indesit IWC 61655 washing machine which was purchased at the end of July of 2010

but was kept in storage until the middle of August while renovation works was going on in my house.

 

I bought the machine from Comet, along with other household appliances from Comet and 365Electrical, before the renovation works were completed.

 

The machine was used for around 3 months before the first issue manifested itself.

 

The machine would go through its cycle and when it came to the spin cycle it would randomly trip the breaker in my fuse box for that particular power ring.

I contacted the electricians (the whole house had been completely rewired to current regulations)

who did a complete diagnostic on the entire system and said it had to be because of the washing machine.

 

I changed the fuse in the plug for the machine thinking it must be something simple as the machine is practically brand new.

 

Again and again it kept infrequently happening until i contacted Indesit in late February of last year who then sent out an engineer.

 

The engineer did an inspection on the machine and said that he couldn't find a fault and said that i should keep the spin cycle RPM on 1400 instead of the 1600 it was on.

 

Right at the beginning of March last year i called Indesit again as it was still happening and a different engineer arrived about a week later.

 

Again, an inspection was done but he too could not find an issue and said that because the model is new they don't stock the parts

so he would get a new motor on order and come back to replace it.

 

A few days later he returned and replaced the motor and said that i should keep an eye on it and call as soon as it happens again.

 

After around 6 to 8 weeks later the machine started to do the same thing so i called Indesit again.

 

At first, the call centre agent said that because the warranty was up (on that day) that i would be charged for the engineer.

 

I wasn't happy about that and told him that this issue has been ongoing from very early on in the machines use

and that the sales of goods act stipulates that goods must be fit for purpose.

 

He went off the line for a couple of minutes and then returned to say that an engineer would be booked free of charge and we went on to book a date.

An engineer came in August of last year and replaced the motor again and also, something that looks like a control board encased in white plastic.

Once this had been done the machine seemed ok and i haven't had that problem since.

 

However, last November, the machine would go through its wash cycle and every now and again,

when it came to the spin cycle, the machine would just pump out the water but wouldn't spin.

 

I tried turning off the machine for a few minutes then turned it back on and it would work fine.

 

It did it again in November and then again in January and then i began to get worried.

 

I checked the Self Help section on the Indesit webpage and it said

“Your Indesit washing machine has an in built feature to prevent it spinning with an unbalanced load.”

And

“....the control system senses the load within the drum and if it considers the load to be unbalanced, it will not automatically spin”.

 

I thought that it sounds about right as i would simply turn off the machine for a few minutes and then it would be fine.

 

That was until today when the machine would not spin at all and no matter how long i leave it off for, when i turn it back on it will not perform its spin cycle.

 

Now, this is where i need the help because i know that Indesit will no be willing to look at it unless i pay them to as it is out of warranty by 7 months or so.

 

The issues with this machine have been ongoing

but i wanted to ask the advice of some of you who may have been through something similar or had to deal with a stubborn manufacturer.

 

As a side note, the machine has never been overloaded and is always cleaned and maintained once a month, on the advice of the salesman,

using the cleaning products (Anti mold and limescale) which work for limescale but not mold.

 

The rubber door seal is horrible and it took a lot of soda crystals to get it to it's current state.

 

Thank you in advanced for any help you can give.

[dx100uk]

your first port of call should have been to the Retailer under SOGA not the manu.

 

thus why the manu is now saying not our problem, the warranty has run out.

 

under SOGA a product should last a resonable time without fault.

 

for a wahing machine this is certainly not less than 2yrs.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/forcustomers

 

dx

[chomerly]

your first port of call should have been to the Retailer under SOGA not the manu.

 

thus why the manu is now saying not our problem, the warranty has run out.

 

under SOGA a product should last a resonable time without fault.

 

for a wahing machine this is certainly not less than 2yrs.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/forcustomers

 

dx

 

 

Hi dx,

 

The manufacturer hasn't even responded yet although it hasn't even been a full 48hrs yet since i emailed them.

 

The seller, being Comet in this case, always refer you to the manufacturer for repair do they not?

I was always under the impression that the reason appliances like washing machines, fridges, dishwashers etc. were always emblazoned with 0800 numbers for registration and warranty service was so that it removed the middle man for quicker repairs and service.

[dx100uk]

comet will do anything to shirk their responsibility to customers with faulty good

 

it IS a SOGA issue to the retailer.

 

sadly as you'll read here comet are very poor.

 

any warranty is in ADDITION to your statutory rights and not in-place of them.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

i have moved your thread to the comet forum

 

have a read of a few threads here.

 

dx

[chomerly]

i have moved your thread to the comet forum

 

have a read of a few threads here.

 

dx

 

No problem DX,

 

Thank you for your advice by the way.

 

I've emailed Comet and had a response today.

 

Though they are more willing, on the face of it, to help and try and sort the issue out, they are insisting that i have to pay for an inspection of the washing machine.

I'm not happy about this because i don't think i should be out of pocket because of issues that first started within the first 6 months of its use.

 

Let me just break down the time frame of this machine and the issues i've had with it now that i have the actual dates in front of me.

 

 

• The machine was purchased on 20th July 2010.
  

 

• It was delivered on the 30th July 2010 and was stored in its original packaging, along with a dishwasher, fridge, dryer and cooker.
  

 

• Building works on my home were completed on the 3rd of September and all appliances were taken out of storage and installed by me and the plumber and electrician on that afternoon. The appliances were all registered on the same date.
  

 

• Issues of the machine tripping the electrical breaker in the fusebox started in December 2010 and at random times until the electricians were called in towards the end of January of 2011.
  

 

• The electricians performed a complete inspection and diagnostic of the electrics of my home with nothing being found.
  

 

• Indesit were contacted in February 2011 and the first visit was on the 28th of February 2011
  

 

• Engineer stated that there was nothing obviously wrong and suggested we turn the spin cycle speed down to 1200RPM from 1600RPM and if it happens again to call back.
  

 

• Washing machine did it again that evening and Indesit were called again.
  

 

• A date for the 4th March 2011 was set but then moved to the 8th March 2011.
  

 

• Engineer said that parts have to be ordered due to the machine being a brand new model and there are no known issues as of yet.
  

 

• Engineer returned on the 12th March 2011 and fitted new motor.
  

 

• Machine was fine for a while but then started to behave exactly the same as before.
  

 

• Indesit were called and an engineer came out on 2nd August 2011 and replaced both the motor and a circuit control board.
  

 

• Machine was fine but in November 2011 it would, at random, not perform its spin cycle.
  

 

• Machine did the same again in January 2012 and i checked the self-help section of the website that seem to suggest that this was an issue of unbalanced loads and the machine stopping itself from causing damage.
  

 

• Machine did this again on the morning of the 15th April 2012 and has not worked since.
  

 

• Indesit contacted and they are basically saying warranty is up so tough.
  

 

• Comet contacted me today and they are now saying i have to pay for an inspection and then a decision would be made on how to resolve the issue.
  

 

 

So, this where i am at.

I have started writing an email in response to their message but i wanted to get your thoughts on where i should go from here.

 

 

Edited to add:

 

Here is the email i received today.

 

I was concerned to learn of the problems that you are experiencing with your Indesit IWC6165S.

 

In order to move forward with this matter, I can confirm that we would be required to inspect your washing machine, in order to determine the nature of the problem. Upon completion of the inspection, a decision as how best to resolve the matter will be made, and you will be informed of any repair charges that may apply, depending upon the fault.

 

Therefore in order to arrange a suitable date for an engineer to inspect your washing machine, I would respectfully request that you please contact our service department on 08712 009 009, selecting option 3. Please be advised that an inspection fee will apply.

 

Whilst I also note your comments regarding the Sales of Goods Act, it states that wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

 

Goods cannot always be expected to work fault-free. They can break down through normal use. Buyers cannot, therefore, expect to hold the seller responsible for fair wear and tear. There needs to be a fault that was present on the day of sale even though it only became apparent later on, or a misdescription of the goods, or a lack of durability that suggests the goods were not of satisfactory quality to start with.

 

In your case there is no evidence to suggest that the fault has been caused by any manufacturing defect, we would consider the product to have been of satisfactory quality when sold.

 

Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience that this matter may cause you. If you require any further assistance, please feel free to contact me using the Ask a Question facility on the website http://comet.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/comet.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Comet Customer Services

Edited April 22, 2012 by chomerly
Spelling mistakes

[dx100uk]

sadly i agree

but, they are correct

 

you'll have to pay.

 

else short circuit the whole lot

 

and write to the ceo direct

 

dx

[chomerly]

If i choose to pay for the inspection that Comet want doing, what can i expect?

 

Are they just getting me to pay for an engineer to come along, tell them what he thinks and then i end up being told that i have to pay to repair it?

 

If the engineer does say that it is down to a part that wear and tear shouldn't be a factor, and that Comet does have a legal obligation to fix, does it mean that i lose that money that i have paid out?

 

 

I've tried reasoning with them over the fact that i don't believe that i should be held liable for any costs as this is the third failure i have had to put up with since the machines first use but the reply i got was

I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy with my colleagues previous response.

 

Having reviewed the entire matter, while I am of course very sorry that you disagree with the information in my colleagues previous e-mail, I am satisfied that it is correct and am therefore unable to help you any further on this matter.

 

Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience you have been caused.

[rebel11]

Hi chom

 

It isn't great, but they should refund the cost of the inspection.Check with them that they are going to do so. Don't get them to inspect it, get it done independently. They sold it to you, I would love to know on what date they (retailer) checked the product before selling it to you and why they want to check it now.

 

'they are insisting that i have to pay for an inspection of the washing machine'

[rebel11]

I'm saying that goods have been purchased on a 'trust' basis by the consumer in the first place, they haven't been tested by the Retailer, when the goods fail, theres a 'song and dance' about getting the consumer 'up and running' with their product that they've paid good money for. So, when they haven't tested every product, why do they make a 'song and dance' about resolving issues.

 

Again rebel, are you saying retailers should quality check every unit they buy (open the box/packaging) before selling it?

[rebel11]

I agree to some extent with what your saying, lets see how chom gets on.

 

But at the same time, the retailer must protect themselves against faulty items that aren't suffering from a manufacturing defect or faults relating to mis-use or damage. They are complying with the law to cover themselves and the consumer.

 

If it were me with a faulty item, claiming under the SOGA I would want an independent to look at it. Someone who has NO invested interest in the outcome and the report will mean so much more in proving your case. I know some people will say they can't afford to be out of pocket or don't want to be. By why would you want the company, who you are hoping will fix your product free of charge (in this case Comet), inpecting the item anyway, it just doesn't make sense. Getting a 3rd party to check it over covers BOTH parties IMHO. I really cannot see the problem here, (other than obviously the OP having lots of issues with his good which is bad, but does happen)...

[GorgieBoy]

chom is now caught between a rock and a hard place , COMET the Retailer has no case History on the ongoing faults with the washing machine as it has been the manufacturer that has now had three failed attempts at repair .

 

They now are washing their hands of the issue as the machine is now outwith its 1 year MANUFACTURERS Warranty which in itself is extremely poor customer service.

 

Hindsight is a great thing had chom gone through COMET in the first instance there would be a a repair case history on the machine with regards to the ongoing faults which COMET would have to now admit that they have not resolved and further FOC repairs would have to be done.

 

COMET have NEVER attempted repair on the machine yet , so therefore they are requesting an Inspection fee now .

 

Even though COMET the Retailer under SOGA has an obligation to help chom regarding his faulty machine I still feel Indesit should be doing a lot more as it was they that failed to repair the machine in the first instance .

 

If they failed what chance is there , all in all very bad .

 

As the machine now is not working at all a decent Engineer should hopefully correctly diagnoise the fault whether it be an INDEPENDENT , COMET or INDESIT one , how much this may cost well that is another story .

 

As I have mentioned before "Comet Response " used to monitor these threads and could be very helpfull at times but unfortunately have gone missing as of late.

[GorgieBoy]

I dunno. If Comet were going to do something above and beyond the SOGA, then they could have gotten all the details of the calls/letters by the OP from Indesit. They could have had the case history if they such wanted to action something for the customer. Let's what the report says and hopefully it's good news.

 

Yes agree CCM ,

 

That may have happened in the old days and they could do that quite easily , but unfortunately nowadays COMET Service is such a mismash with nobody really knowing what is going on with regards to Customer Service and the fact that they have got rid of and in the process of getting rid of 95% of their skilled workforce is a main contributer for the extremely poor "After Sales Service" customers now receive in many instances.

 

The majority of posters on the COMET threads end up here on CAG as they have been getting the runaround for months in many cases and are looking for help and advice as all other avenues have been exhausted .

 

Indeed COMET will have hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers as they still are a major Retailer (at the moment !) however as the many posts show they have their failings when it comes to solving customer issues once the money is in the till and that is not including their obligations under SOGA when goods they have sold breakdown .

Edited April 25, 2012 by GorgieBoy

[chomerly]

Hi all,

 

I have some news regarding my washing machine.

 

A friend popped over yesterday and she recommended that i take out an insurance plan with Domestic and General (sorry if this is plugging the company as that is not my intent).

They provide an insurance service that will allow the policy holder to get repairs at a time that is convenient to both them and you as the customer. And this is before you have even made, in my case anyway, the first payment.

 

The company, Domestic and General, charged £174 for the year with the option of paying monthly direct debit instalments just shy of £14.

They only use fully qualified manufacturer engineers and original manufacturer parts.

 

I had a call this morning saying that there was an engineer in the area and that he could come and take a look. Bearing in mind that i only took the policy out last night.

When he arrived, i explained what the problem was and what had been done with the machine previously.

He checked the machine over and found the fault to be the module.

I asked what this module was and he said that he would show me as soon as he removed it and replaced it with the part he already on the van.

 

Anyway, when he showed me i couldn't believe it.

The part he had to swap out was the exact same part the was changed, along with the motor, when it had to be repaired last August.

I asked him if this was a common problem and whether it was down to fair wear and tear.

He stated that he didn't know if it was a common problem or not as he hasn't worked on many of these specific models. When asked what would cause it he again said that he doesn't know. he said that "They just go".

 

As soon as he replaced the part, he checked the plug, the plug socket and then performed some kind of diagnosis on the machine via a laptop.

Once that was completed he said that was it and that it should be all good before leaving.

He was really friendly and polite and equally he was honest.

 

He left me a worksheet and also the old part that was replaced because i asked him if i could keep it.

 

So, in one way i'm happy that i now have a working washing machine but in another i feel that it was entirely unnecessary for me to take out an insurance policy to get something done that i feel should have been sorted by either Indesit and/or Comet anyway. Especially if you base it solely on the amount of times it has had to have the same parts each replaced twice.

 

What do you think my next move should be now?

Technically i'm out of pocket, though not by a great deal, but as for customer service, there pretty much wasn't any until involved a third party.

Edited April 26, 2012 by chomerly

[GorgieBoy]

Hi chom ,

 

This is growing arms and legs now , looks like at the very least as you have signed up to a D&G policy the saga is going to cost at least £168.00 your machine has now been repaired by one of their contracted repair companies .

 

This is different from an Independent report with regards to your faulty machine and whether you can use D&G for any kind of redress with COMET I would doubt and as such COMET have still not attempted repair or even examined the product which as of now has had 4 repairs carried out.

 

I also see you were looking for further advice here ,

 

http://www.washerhelp.co.uk/forums/topic/955-indesit-iwc-61655-and-persistant-faults/

 

Where I think Andy has misread your post and assumed it was COMET that had attempted three repairs on your machine under the first year and not the manufacturer INDESIT.

 

What your next move now is I have no idea , as far as any redress with the Retailer COMET you may just have to bite the bullet on this one and put it down to a bad experience the plus side is you have a valid breakdown Policy with D&G albeit at a cost of £168 per year at the moment .

[chomerly]

Hi chom ,

 

This is growing arms and legs now , looks like at the very least as you have signed up to a D&G policy the saga is going to cost at least £168.00 your machine has now been repaired by one of their contracted repair companies .

 

This is different from an Independent report with regards to your faulty machine and whether you can use D&G for any kind of redress with COMET I would doubt and as such COMET have still not attempted repair or even examined the product which as of now has had 4 repairs carried out.

 

I also see you were looking for further advice here ,

 

http://www.washerhelp.co.uk/forums/topic/955-indesit-iwc-61655-and-persistant-faults/

 

Where I think Andy has misread your post and assumed it was COMET that had attempted three repairs on your machine under the first year and not the manufacturer INDESIT.

 

What your next move now is I have no idea , as far as any redress with the Retailer COMET you may just have to bite the bullet on this one and put it down to a bad experience the plus side is you have a valid breakdown Policy with D&G albeit at a cost of £168 per year at the moment .

 

 

Hi Gorgieboy,

 

I don't believe D&G have repair companies per say, the people they use to repair customers' machines are the manufacturer engineers.

In my case, the engineer was from Hotpoint/Indesit who were sent by Indesit on the previous times that my machine had to be repaired.

 

Can i ask, You say that that by having an engineer repair the machine is much different to having an independent report (i can understand that for obvious reasons) but can i not use the information on the worksheet, and also the fact that the part replaced is the same as the one previously replaced as a means of arguing that this machine is inherently faulty?

 

I'm not sure how i should write it in a letter but i think it is worth pressing the matter.

The question is, who with?

[GorgieBoy]

Hi chom ,

 

Correct , D&G do not have repair companies as such but they do use Manufacturers Authorised Service Agents throughout the UK to carry out their Service work these can be small Independent Companies or indeed COMET in many instances.

 

I still feel Indesit should have done much more for you as they have been involved from the outset and obviously have a repair history on record with regards to your faulty appliance.

 

However your contract of sale was with the Retailer COMET with regards to SOGA and as such they have not attempted repair or examined the product .

 

I can only suggest you email the Directors Office and also write a letter to them with your concerns and repair history of the machine

and see what their response is.

 

[email protected]

 

Also there is Trading standards office or whatever they are called now and see what they suggest .

Due to all the different events and time scales even taking COMET to a small claims court would have its own problems as the washer has now been repaired by a third party and us such COMET have not been involved with regards to any repairs.

 

Perhaps one of the Site Team guys can advise you further on this matter , as your case is different compared to others here on CAG as in where customers have dealt only with COMET with regards to a faulty appliance within and outwith the 12months standard Warranty , this is when SOGA can kick in with some force .

[chomerly]

Thanks buddy.

 

I'll send an email later on and as soon as i get a response i will let you know what, if any, the outcome is.

[GorgieBoy]

Just to add fuel on the fire here , good or bad a " 5 Year Extra Service Plan" bought at the time of purchase as your washer would have cost £169.99 your D&G Policy which you have now purchased is working out at £168.00 per Year.

 

Good luck with any redress keep us informed .

Edited April 27, 2012 by GorgieBoy

[chomerly]

Well here's the update.

 

Just received a call from someone at Comets head office. Probably public relations of some sort.

She basically said that because it couldn't be proven that there was a manufacturing defect at the time of sale, and that the manufacturer hasn't reported any issues which would give them a reason to repair or replace the machine, they would not be refunding the cost of the warranty plan i have taken with Domestic and General.

She also made a point of telling me that they had not had the opportunity they requested to inspect the machine on the previous occasions that it needed to be repaired.

 

It's funny they say that they requested the repair when in my initial email i said that i was happy for them to come and inspect it at there convenience.

The only other thing she said with h regards to that was that the inspection would cost £69.

It was this charge that i had issue with which is why they never came to inspect the machine in the first place.

 

I said that regardless of whether or not there is/was a manufacturing defect present at the point of sale, it still does not excuse the fact that this machine has needed to be repaired 4 times in less than 2 years.

I also said that the sales of goods act states goods must be 'fit for purpose' and be expected to last a reasonable length of time and in no way can anyone consider this machine to have lasted a reasonable length of time when both the motor and the module have now had to be replaced twice.

 

She basically repeated what she had said earlier and i asked her to put it in writing. I wasn't going to waste my time arguing a point that was obviously not going to make a slight difference in the script she must have been reading from.

 

So that's where i am at.

They are basically saying what Indesit have said which is a polite version of say off.

[dx100uk]

lets see if they do put that in writing

 

dx

[chomerly]

I figured i would update this thread as i had forgotten to do it initially after the last update.

 

After the phone call conversation i had with the Comet representative, i awaited the letter that she said she would send which would detail our conversation.

And after waiting the obligatory 4 weeks i had received nothing.

 

It's not surprising that i haven't received anything from them as they were obviously not going to accept any sort of reliability.

The annoying thing is that after the repeated repairs, i'm still left with a bill of insurance for covering the machine (which i felt was necessary to take out as a result) and a washing machine that i had no confidence in.

 

Today, which hasn't really come as a surprise considering this machines history, the machine has decided to stop working again.

I have no idea what the problem is this time but the behaviour seems the same as the previous one.

I will report on it as soon as i have a definitive answer.

All i can say at this point is DO NOT BUY one of these machines.

 

I used to believe that Indesit were one of the best manufacturers of washing machines, which is why i bought one along with other Indesit appliances, for reliability and quality and i have been proven very, very wrong indeed.

 

I don't about you but if my machine does not qualify under the category of inherently faulty then i do not know what does.

Edited September 20, 2012 by chomerly

[GorgieBoy]

Hi chom ,

 

Good to hear from you even though it is more bad news , at least you have a D&G policy to cover repair costs on your machine .

 

All i can say at this point is DO NOT BUY one of these machines.

 

You forgot to mention from COMET

 

Another harsh lesson I am afraid .

 

I really do not know where you can go from here perhaps one of the Site Team Guys do