Unfair, Wrongful or Constructive dismissal?

[lbruk]

Good Luck

[lindyhop]

Hi Caggers

 

today got the ET3. totally rubbished me and my claims. i was warned to expect a total denial, but even being warned of this cannot prepare you for the eventuality. its hard. i think the judge on reading will go for PHR and not straight to CMD its such a blow. but employers have an experienced solicitor writing theirs for them.

 

best start preparing my arguement as to why all of my complaints should be considered and not just the part that my employer is prepared to have considered.

 

Regards

[lbruk]

The employers in my case have an experienced law firm working for them, and so far, they have been useless lol. don't get to het up about them having solicitors, remember the tribunal is designed for employees to represent themselves.

 

Dont put your arguments forward yet, they might want you too so they know your plans for the actual hearing. Just state that this is what you are claiming, this is where it sits in the law, and this is what happened that i feel broke the law and was unreasonable. It doesn't matter if the solicitor disagrees with you, thats their job, you just stick to your plans and say what happened and let the tribunal decide for themselves.

Edited May 30, 2012 by lbruk

[lindyhop]

Breach of confidentiality and misuse of medical information

 

i have read through a couple of other threads on breach of confidentiality and Data Protection breach.

 

my managers having discussed my personal medical data with work colleagues at a team meeting (without my prior knowledge or authorisation) means i think a Data Protection breach(?) i am still waiting to hear back from the ET court about the breach and disability discrimination and including this in my current claim.

 

my question is however - should the ET judge not be happy to include the breach, is it possible for me to take seperate civil action for the data breach? how would i go about this LBA(?) go straight to the commissioners(?) and at what stage would i do this? is there a time limit?

 

Regards

[lbruk]

Data Breach will be dealt with by the ICO, but they are completely toothless to be honest, but its nice to have them investigate and send them improvement notices! You can only claim for actual losses in data breaches, if you have suffered actual losses then you can then claim emotional compensation. But you cannot just claim emotional compensation. This would be dealt with through the civil courts and normally only pays out about £300.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi Lindyhop,

 

in response to your questions I would like to know if you signed, a medical consent form?

If you did your employer can argue that they discussed your confidential medical info, in the course of their work and this was necessary for them to do their job, perhaps?

 

(Please find attached a annotated internal email from my ex-employer, where they actually admit the breach, this affected me deeply and really hope something is done about this disgraceful corporate bullying culture!)

 

In regard to the response and the E.T judge I am fairly sure that data protection issues are outside of the ET Judges' jurisdiction and therefore the judge would not be able to deal with D,P issues, only the discrimination issues.

 

If you lodge a complaint with the ICO, they will ask you to write to the company and try and resolve the issues. the company has 42 days (???) to give you a formal written response, if you are still not happy this is when the ICO will step in! I am unsure of time limits for making a data protection complaint (any help here CAGGERS????)

 

@IBRUK are you sure 300 pounds is top level of comp...I had the understanding that it could be many thousands. Data confidentiality is very serious!

 

Hope this helps and any advice/ corrections very welcome

 

all the best

boc .pdf

[lbruk]

@Billy, its not the top payment, and it does depend on the seriousness of the breach, but unless you have actually suffered financial losses then you cant sue them anyway. As i said the average payment is £300. My ex-employer has breached the act 3 times, and nothing can be brought against them because they have taken on the ICO's advice and are trying to sort it out.

[sallypotter]

I am suing the police for breach of confidentiality DATA PROTECTION in disclosing information to a third party who i had a non-molestation order out against which they knew about.

 

Are you saying i would only receive £300 in compensation for this?

 

I had a nervous breakdown when i found this out in court documents when it was disclosed what the police had said to this man about me which he was trying to use against me.

[lbruk]

Please read what I have written I have not said people only get £300, in cases of serious breach, such as the Sony breach or the other big cases - serious fines can be levied against the company that has breached the act and certain payouts are large if they have affected the subject badly.

 

Sally you are in a unique situation there, in my case the respondent did not disclose documents under a DSAR and now they are in the Bundle against me. My ex-employer caused several nervous breakdowns for me during my employment.

[lindyhop]

Hi Caggers, following your inputs i contacted the ICO, as they didnt give as example my type of situation on their website. they confirmed that my situation appeared to be a breach, that i should make a formal complaint to my employers and allow them 28 days to resolve the situation - if they do not then i make a formal complaint to the ICO. the officer i spoke to advised that they were unlikely to look at complaints of this nature that were over a year old.

 

yes, i think i did sign a medical consent form, which i amended to restricted contact - but surely this would not have included my employers discussing my medical condition with my work colleagues if they had been transparent about wanting to do this i would never have agreed to sign anything! as far as i am concerned it is an abuse and they could have done their job without the need to go into my medical history - let them argue. as a point - i didnt get a copy of the medical consent form as part of my SAR's this could be because the consent was done with the Occ Health and not my employers, will this make a difference? the Occ health are 'agents' for my employers

 

this really is frustrating, and so wrong.

 

Regards

 

PS i really do appreciate the feedback from you guys - sometimes i really do believe i am going mad, am i really being that unreasonable?

[lindyhop]

Hi Caggers

 

got a copy of the letter sent to my employers solicitors - their request for PHR DENIED! my first smile for months.

 

the case is to go to a full merits hearing(?) what on earth is one of them?

 

 

secondly, employers may be playing for time, but have come back to me further to my complaint of DP breach and want to know what i consider resolution. i know this is going to sound really stupid but i havent thought about it, and have no idea what would be reasonable. an apology to start with i guess, financial recompense, but what is reasonable? for them telling a whole department that i have mental illness and my allegations must therefore be imaginary - hence the perpetrators neednt worry as management were not taking it seriously!!!

 

any links i can be referred to for this?

 

Regards

[lbruk]

Excellent, that a first victory to you then its basically just the full hearing.

 

Well, thats a hard question to answer, what do you want? An apology and admittance of wrong doing would be a good start as you say. Do you want financial recompense? If so how much would be reasonable? It's impossible to know.

 

I would write back and say that and apology and an admittance of wrong doing, as well as a copy of an email sent to all the people originally sent the inflammatory email saying that they had made a mistake etc... Then go onto to say how outraged you are at their behavior and would appreciate an offer of financial recompense that they feel is adequate to cover the distress caused by their actions

[papasmurf1cx]

Tell them that you are not interested in settling this matter at this stage. You would only consider remedies as and when they want to settle all matters. Explain that their actions never have indicated a desire to settle the allegations you have made and that as far as you are concerned the ET is the correct place for all matters to be heard and judged upon.

 

The point is that they are sounding you out on how they can cheaply settle matters. Will you jump at it or not, are you desperate or not... it is a game. Don't play their game play yours.

 

The way I read this is that they want to settle but try and put you on the defensive. In the 'endgame' they will always want YOU to set the numbers and they will say 'oh no no no no!!!!' and come back with a ludicrously small number. You are blind because you don't know what a case or aspect of a case is worth. Find out what the ranges are and what COULD be the settlement number. You will never get that but you may get an idea of what you DO want for the matter.

 

Once you have that number in your head you can make judgements as to what you can reasonably achieve ABOVE that number, but have a number which you will not fall below.

 

They are playing you....... play hard to get and jerk them off with further legal bills... for them. The longer it goes on in the ET case the more expensive it gets for them and a trial ...... and preparation for trial is the most expensive area.

 

If they come back to you with some sort of indication that they want to settle the whole matter then you MAY be making progress..... just don't jump at what they deem to give you. They can hurt as much as you and preparing statements and the like, for them, will be most uncomfortable.

 

I always said it... get to ET and outside their control and they hurt like anything.

[lindyhop]

Hi Ibruk and Pappa

 

only others on here can appreciate how valuable the service being provided here is.

 

as stated in my earlier post. i really have no idea. i have been so busy on concentrating and focusing on the 'fight' and the injustice of it all that little consequence has been given to a figure that i would settle at, i have thought if anything at all that the court would determine this anyway.

 

naturally and as always i will be following the excellent advice given. the point that i let them know that if they are serious it should all be settled together. however the DP as i understand it is outside of the ET jurisdiction

 

in the meantime, i am unbelievably pleased for it to be confirmed that it will go to full trial. others on here may think i am potty (join the list of my managers that have put this information about). but for me the opportunity to get to the hearing and have them explain themselves in front of me and any observers is very very important.

 

the list of witnesses that my employers will have to put on call to attend the hearing is horrendous, - for them.

 

for me to start to heal i need answers - whatever they may be. the answers may help me be more prepared and less vulnerable in the future should i be faced with the same set of circumstances again.

 

Regards

[lbruk]

I was just about to say that a Data Protection breech is not within the ET's jurisdiction, they will decide on the employment problems, although they have the power to issue personal injury compensation as well.

 

Data Protection breaches are not that well followed through by people, as you have to take them through the civil courts and that takes a bit of time. However if you can get something out of them without going to court over this one matter then I would say it is worth it.

 

The breach that has happened, although upsetting and totally unjustified, is not that "serious"

[papasmurf1cx]

however the DP as i understand it is outside of the ET jurisdiction

 

 

 

Yes that may be the case....... but that does not stop you stating that you feel that it should be settled 'in totality' as it is a cathartic process for you to have these things dealt with together.

 

delay delay and delay in my opinion because they want shot of it and you want shot of it ALL. Keep to your agenda not theirs.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

@lindyhop,

 

glad for you, for keeping on battling.

I was the same everybody told me to drop it but the more I heard their words the more it pushed me forward.

I do hope you get justice as unfortunately I didn't as the whole tribunal was completely rigged. Even my request for review was completely ignored by the judge...I have now put my case through to the EAT (the tribunals appeal), but I doubt this will accomplish much.

 

I too also have data protection issues (see my last post for the attachment) and am wondering if anyone can offer guidance in the way of drafting a complaint letter to send to the ex-employers?

 

Yes it is true Data protection is outside of the Employment tribunal.

 

Ibruk I find it very strange that you say breaches that cause severe emotional distress for the ones on the receiving end are not classed as "serious"in the eyes of the law. Are you saying this is the view the ICO people will take also?

 

As much as I hope you wipe the floor with your employer Lindy, please dont get your hopes up as the judges are not as lenient as I thought they would be and on three occasions including my own case they sided with the employer. Many people on this site told me this prior to my hearing but I didnt hear it and was massively dissapointed when the judge's verdict came through.

 

All I can say is keep plugging away and hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

Any help with a Data protection complaint letter fellow CAG'ers?

 

best regards

 

BB

[lindyhop]

Hi Ibruk and Pappa

 

i have drafted the following as a reply.

 

Dear ( )

 

in response to your question as to what i view as a resolution to this matter, be advised of the following:-

 

A written apology from (named manager that initiated the conversation)

 

A written apology from (named managers) as CEO, senior managers and managers who should have known to desist from participating in such a deliberate, damaging and defamatory action

 

An written retraction of the medical statements made and recorded by (named manager) that initiated the conversation stating clearly

(named manager) is not a medical expert in this field

Did not have authorisation to disclose any medical condition connected to (me)

(me) has not been diagnosed with having 'mental illness'

 

Copies of the retraction and apology to be sent to the non management (team colleagues) Staff, .

 

Copies of the retraction and apologies to be permanently and securely attached to the minutes of the meeting on the (date) where the comments are recorded and kept as part of my personal file with HR.

 

Equally important as part of the resolution is the importance that other members of staff are protected from such repeat actions by management. Alerting the ( ) team to your wrong doing will help ensure that should they be faced with the same set of circumstance their awareness that redress is available to them.

 

Finally to compensate the defamation and vilification: an offer of financial recompense that is adequate to cover the severity of damage and distress caused to me and any possibility at all, that I could realistically return to work within the (?) team without being viewed as ridiculous by my colleagues.

 

as a reminder satisfactory resolution is due by the ( ).

 

Regards

 

(will be sent by email)

 

 

 

　

[papasmurf1cx]

Go girl Go !!!!!!!

 

They know you mean business.

[lindyhop]

Hi Billybob

 

i am very sorry to hear that your case was not successful. the success of the case for me will be bringing my employers to court to answer publically their actions. actually there have been so much disappointment listed here that to win financially is viewed as a bonus. but just because success seems to be few and far between wont put me off - if anything it makes me even mored determined - its all about what is right for you as the individual who has suffered the experience.

 

ibruk has cautioned that if i get a financial settlement at all from my employers for DP breach it will be very small. i am prepared for them to stitch me up completely and offer nothing. without the information on this site i wouldnt even have known that this avenue was available to me anyway - do you follow my drift. if the matter remains unresolved after the 28 days i just make a formal complaint to the ICO, even if my employers are only issued with a notice as far as i am concerned there has been some justice.

 

now i just have to wait to hear about my trial date and whether or not the additional DDA stuff is being allowed.

 

maybe we can help with your letter of complaint re DP breach to your former employers what were the circumstances? i have drafted my own version - can you adapt it for use to suit your case?

 

Pappa

its good to get positive responses, even your few words, its equivilent to being lifted out of the quagmire for a few minutes. Thank you.

 

Regards

[papasmurf1cx]

Lindy ... expect a knock back on the DP issue. They will know that if they don't comply and you complain to the ICO then the worst they will get is a wrap on the knuckles. The ICO will take an age to reply to you expect that to go on for a year !! That was happened to us. You end up working for nowt. The ICO are useless.

[lindyhop]

Hi again Pappa

 

ias i have already stated, i am already expecting a knockback. the point is that i am being an irritant to them - i am taking the matter outside of the organisation and exposing them - so they may only get a notice and it takes a year - its still out there - a wrap on the knuckles is a wrap on the knuckles and i know that my employers will not be happy about that!

 

its not something that i am prepared to let go - for me it will still be a result. its not only the 'big things' that derive satisfaction.

 

Regards

[lindyhop]

CMD coming up next month

so i have the date for this now. i have phoned the court and their advise that this is not the actual hearing, but to discuss what is due to be heard at the hearing - but i still dont get it. i have already stated what i want the hearing to cover with my ET1 and subsequent request for the inclusion of the DDA. will some of the areas i want raised be 'chucked' at the CMD? how then is this different from the PHR?

 

my brain is boiling over!

[lbruk]

OK,

 

Do not worry to much about the CMD.

 

The CMD is there to get all the issues that you have out in the open and where they fall in the law. Firstly i would recommend that you update any reference to the DDA to the Equality Act 2010 as the DDA has been superceeded by the Equality Act.

 

So, Write down all your issues in a list, not the events that led to the issue but the issue itself. ie:

 

Disability Discrimination

 

Direct Discrimination - My boss Mr Joe Bloggs called ma a disabled idiot and a burden on the company (for instance)

 

Indirect Discrimination - The procedure in the company didnt allow for any reasonable adjustments to be allowed

 

Harassment - Over a period of time I was subject to humiliating and degrading comments by Mr Joe Bloggs.

 

Reasonable adjustments - I received no capability meeting for them to know what my limits were or the help needed.

 

 

Try to relax a little. I was het up about my CMD but when i actually did it - it was fine.

[lindyhop]

Hi Ibruk

 

thanks for the advice. it turns out i was lucky that my employers didnt get thier PHR, following the submission of my objection they submitted an objection to my objection rquesting that as a least the ET have a joint PHR and CMD!

 

WOW!

 

anyway will start on my issues.

 

a couple of things i found out today, but not sure if they are correct. i can issue my DDA questionaire at anytime???? and that i can be sacked on grounds of capability - this bit was a major shock - i had assumed that as the OCC Health had the opinion that it was the enviroment of my workplace and not my ability to do the job, this was not an option for my employer - i was wrong.

 

the other issue that is still outstanding is the issue of directions from court for inclusion of my DDA - not having heard from them - i assumed that this would be raised by the judge at the CMD - nah - i need to chase this now!

 

there really are so many pitfalls - it really is never ending - i need to double the dose of my happy pills:-(