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Representation rejected on ground of being outside 28days - It wasn't!!


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In January, i received a 'Notice to Owner' letter regarding a PCN i had supposedly got in November.

I never received a PCN attached to windscreen. However there was an open plastic PCN cover on the floor next to the car and a soggy bit of paper also on the floor. Due to the rain all print had washed off and could not be read. My suspicious mind made me take a photograph of these just in case........Then on the 19th January the 'Notice to Owner' came through the door saying the fine had gone from £35 to £70.

 

I replied (within 28 days), giving my representations. I acknowleged the parking fine but argued because i never actually knew i had a PCN i never had the chance to pay the £35, therefore i asked for the fine to be reset and i would happily pay the £35. I also sent copies of the photos of the soggy paper and open plastic protection film.

 

Today i have received a rejection on the ground of not responding within the 28 day period and the fine has gone up to £105.

They say i did not respond until the 23.02.12, when in fact they received my letter on the 15.02,12.

I have the proof of postage receipt saying 14.02.12 and a print out from the post office track and trace stating the letter was delivered on the 15.02.12.(Within the 28 days).

 

The letter claims they will not deal in this matter further so now im waiting for a letter from the court and a witness statement letter.

 

What is the best way to procede with this? Im not disputing the original fine but disputing i never had the chance to pay the original amount.. Now im arguing i did submit representations in the 28 limit. What will i have to do in the witness statement????

 

 

Any help please

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Can you be precise on what you have received?

 

I am guessing you had the Notice to Owner, which you appealed. Then the next thing you had was a Charge Certificate? Then a letter refusing to consider your appeal?

 

Is that correct? It is very important that we know the exact sequence in order to give you the correct advice.

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Can you be precise on what you have received?

 

I am guessing you had the Notice to Owner, which you appealed. Then the next thing you had was a Charge Certificate? Then a letter refusing to consider your appeal?

?

Is that correct? It is very important that we know the exact sequence in order to give you the correct advice.

 

 

I received notice to Owner.

I appealed it within 28 days.

I received rejection letter stating I never appealed within 28 days.. also the fine has now gone up to £105. (with no enclosed literature about appealing to the adjudicator)

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Where does it say that the fine has gone up to £105? Is it on a Charge Certificate? Have you received a Charge Certificate?

 

If not, I would advise you get onto the council and find out if they have issued one. If they haven't, they might well have fouled up the proper process which is good news for you. If they have issued one, you will need to take a different route - so we need to know for sure. It makes a big difference.

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Where does it say that the fine has gone up to £105? Is it on a Charge Certificate? Have you received a Charge Certificate?

 

If not, I would advise you get onto the council and find out if they have issued one. If they haven't, they might well have fouled up the proper process which is good news for you. If they have issued one, you will need to take a different route - so we need to know for sure. It makes a big difference.

 

Thanks JAmberson No i have not received a charge certificate...Whats is one of these?? To clarify in order 1. Received Notice to owner (First official knowledge of pcn given) 2. Filed Representations within 28 days 3. Received a definite rejection letter stating as i never responded within 28 days, my appeal will not be considered and as i have failed to reply within 28 days the fine has gone up to £105 Thats it. No Charge certificate

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Then see the second paragraph of my last post.

 

A Charge Certificate is the official document which states that the charge has increased. They must issue one to you. Can you find out if they have posted one out before sending you that letter?

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Then see the second paragraph of my last post.

 

A Charge Certificate is the official document which states that the charge has increased. They must issue one to you. Can you find out if they have posted one out before sending you that letter?

 

Thanks, I will give them a call to ask?

Also in my rejection letter they never enclosed anything about appealing to the adjudicator.. Am I right up saying they supposed to.

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If you have not yet received the Charge certificate then you can still pay at £70, its the CC that raises the cost not the Notice of rejection.

 

Only if they have not issued it. It could have been issued and gone astray in the post.

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Only if they have not issued it. It could have been issued and gone astray in the post.

 

Sorry yes thats true should have highlighted that point but my point still remains they cannot just raise the charge in a letter it requires the issue of the charge certificate

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Thanks Guys I will try and post a copy of the rejection letter up but having trouble. Here is the wording roughly.......... Title : Notice of rejection of charge certificate I acknowledge receipt of the response to the Charge Certificate in respect of the the above penalty Charge Notice. A Notice to owner was sent out on the 19.01.12 and this gave you the opportunity to make formal representations to the City Council within 28 days. The notice was not responded to until the 23..02.12, and i regret therefore you have lost the legal right to make further representations against the issue of the PCN. The penalty charge has been increased to £105 via the charge certificate issued to you in accordance with the provisions of the Traffic Management Act 2004 and this must be paid within 14 days beginning with the date on which the certificate was served, in order to avoid registration of the debt at the County Court. .....The rest details how to pay. As you can read, they claim my appeal responded to the charge certificate (1st line), but then go on to explain that i never responded to the Notice to Owner until 23.02.12. (It was the Notice to Owner i responded to). So if a charge certificate has been issued, the 14 days will likely be up..i will give them a call later. I'm still concerned i have not been given my right of appeal. 1. Can i ring up and ask for all copies of documents to be sent out to me. 2. Will i be able to send a copy of proof of postage and proof when they received my representations in the witness statement. 3. Can i still write to the adjudicator with copies of proof stating the council have not followed their own procedure as i enclose proof i had replied within 28 days. Thanks

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You don't need copies of the documents. Just clarify if and when a charge certificate was issued, and let us know.

 

They say in their letter that the NTO was sent out on 19 Jan. In your first post at the top you said it came through your door on 19 Jan. I assume both can't be right - it would take at least one day to be delivered. Can you clarify this?

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You don't need copies of the documents. Just clarify if and when a charge certificate was issued, and let us know.

 

 

 

 

They say in their letter that the NTO was sent out on 19 Jan. In your first post at the top you said it came through your door on 19 Jan. I assume both can't be right - it would take at least one day to be delivered. Can you clarify this?

 

Have rang up and they say a charge certificate has not been issued. Upon looking at the details in front of her she tells me she realises I have made representations inside 28 days and a new decision will be made and sent out..

 

As for the NTO its dated 19th.. I received on 20th

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Well, the council has acted improperly. I suggest you don't put anything in writing to them on the matter (eg, don't say you're happy with their decision today) and wait and see the outcome of your representations, which I guess rests on the question of whether they will accept payment at the original discounted rate.

 

You can, if they fail, refer the whole case to adjudication, and the council's impropriety might win it for you if nothing else does.

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  • 1 month later...
Well, the council has acted improperly. I suggest you don't put anything in writing to them on the matter (eg, don't say you're happy with their decision today) and wait and see the outcome of your representations, which I guess rests on the question of whether they will accept payment at the original discounted rate.

 

You can, if they fail, refer the whole case to adjudication, and the council's impropriety might win it for you if nothing else does.

 

Hi, me again.

Well, after the above post saying they will review my representations again as they realise they had received them within 28 days, i have just received a charge certificate stating my £70 fine has increase to £105 and to pay within 14 days.. So im assuming i as you say acted totally improper on these grounds.

 

 

1. The notice of rejection (07.04.12) states i responded to the charge certificate, and that the charge has been increased to £105 via the charge certificate issued to me.........In fact i responded with my representations and no charge certificate has been sent until 25.05.12

2. I did sent my representations within 28 days as proven by royal mail tracking on recorded delivery and also the councils customer service rep admitted on the phone. (I have time and date so can i get a transcript to prove this?)

 

 

The question is, what do i do now. Write to the adjudicator explaining (This option was not given as they say i failed the representations) or wait until a court order/witness statement arrives and fight it on the ground of them acting improper...Thanks

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You are in a similar situation to before.

 

You can either phone them and enquire whether they did in fact send you a resonse to your representation, but you just didn't get it for some reason, and see what they say about that -

 

Or, you can wait and file a witness statement as you suggest.

 

You can't take it to the adjudicator at the moment as you are not in the right stage of the appeals process.

 

The council seems to have fouled up again - this is heading your way and will probably end up being cancelled now. Meantime, it's up to you how you want to play it. If it were me, I would phone them and find out if they sent you a reply to your representations. Assuming they say no, I would politely say that they are not following die process and have twice issued a charge certificate illigitimately - and that you will take this to adjudication if they pursue it further. Point out that if they don't cancel it, they are just asking you to jump through hoops, because you will have to wait for the order for recovery then file a witness statement, then make another representation alleging impropriety, then if that fails go to adjudication.

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