Failure to notify. Another case!

[Number6]

I just want to check the current status.

 

Usual story - sent notification of disposal of vehicle to DVLA

Received Mags Court summons

Wrote to "The Prosecutor" stating I intend to plead not guilty and defend the case, seek to recover costs, etc.

Received reply from "The Prosecutor" saying it's my fault, they will proceed to prosecute the case but offer me "the opportunity" to have the case withdrawn if I pay them £55!

 

I'm not paying them anything! I will plead not guilty and attend the hearing.

 

In my defence I intend to quote the Interpretation Act and section 22 of The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.

 

Is there anything else I should be preparing or doing?

 

Thanks for your help.

[Raykay]

If the prosecutor starts on about their 'confirmation letter', ask what legislation requires them to send one, or you to do anything if you don't receive one.

 

Another ploy of theirs is to say that you did not 'deliver the document to the secretary of state as required by the regulations' ask how do you do that other than posting the document to DVLA at Swansea.

[Number6]

Thanks Raykay. Will do.

[Number6]

I attended court on Thursday. Was accosted by the DVLA prosecutor who asked me a couple of questions. I just gave him a blank stare.

 

Anyway, I entered my not guilty plea and the trial is set for 24th May.

 

Any tips, apart from the obvious, about how to approach setting out my defence?

[Raykay]

The 'claims' by the prosecutor often are "you are guilty because":

 

"You didn't chase up the confirmation letter" - as above, you don't have to.

 

"You cannot prove it was delivered" - you don't have to - s.7 Interpretation Act 1978.

 

"The Interpretation Act doesn't apply in this case" - it does - s. 7 Interpretation Act 1978 covers it quite well:

'Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post', especially or any other expression is used . They give a postal address so they require it to be sent by post.

 

"You did not deliver the document to the Secretary of State as requirede by the regulations" - on the V5C, the instructions on page 2 and on the back of parts 9 & 10 are that you must return the relevant document to DVLA at Swansea when you notify any changes. The DVLA is an Executive Agency of the Department for Transport, so by sending a document to DVLA you have, in effect, delivered it as required.

[Number6]

Thanks for the advice Raykay.

[Number6]

Hello again

 

I'm up before the bench on Thursday afternoon (if anyone wants to come and watch, you're welcome) and, having never been before the mags before I wonder if anyone can advise me of the procedure and what I should do?

 

I am preparing a small bundle of documents to take with me as requested by the Clerk at my plea hearing - should I prepare just two sets, i.e. one for me and one for the bench as a whole, or should I provide a set for each of the three magistrates and the prosecutor?

 

What will happen at the court. I know I have to present myself a half hour or so before the allotted time, but what will happen then? Will I hand my bundle over to the Clerk? Do I take it into court with me?

 

When I'm called in for trial, any pointers as to how things will proceed?

 

Any advice will be appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

[Number6]

Oh, one more thing - What would it be reasonable to ask for in recompense for my costs when I win?

[millitant]

i will bet my house you will get a phone call from the DVLA prosecutor tomorow

 

he will ask about your defence then he will withdraw the summons

 

that what happened with me after i refused to be bullied by them

 

i take it this is a magistrates court

[Number6]

Yes, Magistrates.

 

OK, we'll see

 

What had you prepared for the hearing though? Just in case it all goes through to hearing.

[Raykay]

You may find that the prosecutor will speak to you before you actually go into court and and again offer to drop the case if you make a settlement payment. If you refuse that, they may ask you what your defence is and try to rufute it, if they realise that you know what you are talking about and are prepared to go into court, they often drop the prosecution - they are well aware of the ramifications if the bench are made aware of validity of the defences to their claims, and don't want anyone letting the cat out of the bag, which could result in a string of not guilty verdicts and an end to their money making racket for rest of the day!!!

 

 

 

Just remember:

There is no legal requirement to do anything about their acknowledgement letter.

You don't have to prove the document was received - they have to prove you didn't send it.

You delivered the document to the Secretary of State by sending to to DVLA at Swansea.

[Number6]

Thanks Raykay.

 

I'd still like to prepare my documentation correctly though, just in case it's needed. I could do with some advice how I should do this. Anyone?

[Gazette]

Thanks Raykay.

 

I'd still like to prepare my documentation correctly though, just in case it's needed. I could do with some advice how I should do this. Anyone?

 

I haven't had a hearing like this, but when I took a travel company to court I prepared three of everything. One for me, one for the opposition and one for the court. I won... L

[Number6]

That's my thinking too. But there are three Magistrates so I'm wondering if I should prepare a copy for each Magistrate?

[Gazette]

That's my thinking too. But there are three Magistrates so I'm wondering if I should prepare a copy for each Magistrate?

 

Yes if you want to... But they can share if need be. In criminal cases mags quite often share case notes. Up to you...and your budget/time.

[Number6]

Just back from Court 5.

 

I lost!

 

The magistrates had sympathy with me but decided that in the strict interpretation of the law I did not "deliver" the document.

 

I asked for, and was granted leave to appeal.

 

What does the panel suggest I do next? Any thoughts?

[millitant]

what do you mean in the strict interpretation of the law I did not "deliver" the document.

what reason did the magistrate give for the interpretations act not being applicable

 

def appeal

[Number6]

All that the magistrate said was that "while they have sympathy for my case they have to apply the law". He went on to say that the strict interpretation of the word "deliver" means to "hand over to another party". He said nothing else.

 

Even the DVLA guy agreed with me that I posted it, I have a witness to the fact but apparently merely posting it is not good enough!

 

I'm not happy as you can imagine. I have 21 days to consider appealing. Problem with appealing is that I would have to get a solicitor or barrister to represent me and I simply can't afford that along with the risk of costs being awarded against me if I still go on to lose.

 

Another question is - do I appeal the conviction or do I go to the Divisional Court to appeal on a point of law?

[Number6]

I'm thinking of getting local / national media involved. Good idea or maybe counter productive if I intend to appeal?

[millitant]

the appeal will be to the crown court

 

the magistrate has def got it wrong

 

the interpretations act is statute legislation and cannot be rebuked

[Number6]

I know an appeal against conviction will be at the Crown Court, but my question is should I appeal the conviction? - in which case it will effectively be a retrial, or do I appeal it to the divisional court on a point of law?

 

Appeals to the High Court

 

Where you consider that either the Magistrates' Court or Youth Court, or the Crown Court when hearing your appeal, have made an error of law, acted in excess of their jurisdiction or failed to exercise their jurisdiction in deciding your case, you can appeal on a point of law to the Divisional Court of the High Court. This is done by way of asking the lower court to 'state a case' for the Divisional Court's consideration.

 

The latter course would not involve a retrial but OTOH I won't be able to re-present my evidence.

[millitant]

this will put a smile on your face

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?319264-DVLA-Failure-to-notify-Advice-required.

[Number6]

OK, that's an interesting thread

 

Well Mr John Dyson (DVLA Prosecutor), I hope you are reading this thread and I look forward to meeting you in the Crown Court for the appeal hearing as soon as possible!

[Tony P]

As with the Paul Kennedy case I am happy to 'chip in' something towards any unrecovered Appeal Costs.

 

In apealing the conviction it will be at a higher Court than today's, before a professional Judge (not lay Magistrates) and, most importantly to everyone, when successful that becomes a legal precedent binding on all equal and lower Courts.

For that last reason alone you will be subjected to much fishing, offers and bartering by DVLA to avoid the Appeal being heard and ruled upon. Read about how they 'withdrew' when Paul went into the Courtroom, thereby avoiding a Judge setting a precedent.

 

Scandalous. This must be brought to an end.

 

"Don't make any deals with them. Don't be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered."

You will have much support from here.

[Number6]

Thanks for the reply Tony. I have followed the advice in my sig all the way so far and have no intention of giving up now.

 

Reading Paul's thread it doesn't seem like he employed a barrister or solicitor - do you know if this is the case? He was LIP all the way?