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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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CapQuest / Shop Direct Help

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I recently contacted Moorcroft after they sent me several letters, I probably got about 4 letters in the month of August which all added £12 to the original debt from Shop F.S (Great Universal which was £157, I also have got 3 Court Action letters, that if I didn't pay by such a date I would be taken to court etc. etc. So the total balance I have to pay now is £241.


I was away when I had letters sent to me from Moorcroft and apparently they were abusive towards my mother when they phoned up to chase up the debt, I contacted Moorcroft and offered to pay £50.00 off the debt, followed by a payment of the full amount at a later date that I did not confirm as I stated I would be sending them a CCA Request and I wouls pay any outstanding balance if a CCA Request could be found.

That was the end of the phone call


I have recently just got back from working away to have a letter stating that Shop F.S (Great Universal) are unable to supply a signed credit agreement.


Here is the text from the letter they sent me


I write to confirm that our client (Shop F.S (Great Universal)) has been unable to supply a signed credit agreement for you. We have therefore returned the payment you have made.


We accept that under the Section 127 (3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt is therefore unenforceable via a court order. We must inform you however that the account remains outstanding.


It is our understanding that the goods which have been charged to your account have been ordered by and delivered to you. We can confirm therefore that a default remains in relation to this account and would remind you that making payment to clear the balance my assist in relation to your credit history.


Please confirm that you accept that goods were ordered and received and let us have your settlement proposals.


Now the advice I would want to know is, where to go I go from here?


Do I send them a letter back, stating what I would prefer to pay each week/month?


Would they accept my settlement proposals, no matter how small the amount say £10 a month for the next say 12 month for example?


Or is there a loophole that would make any outstanding balance unenforceable so I would not have to pay it like they want me to?


Thanks in advance for any help or assistance provided.

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If they have no CCA, there is no enforceable debt. You don't have to pay them anything.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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As said.... no CCA = no enforceable debt. Moorcroft will be well aware of this. Keep hold of all correspondence from them... incl. the rec. delivery slip of when the CCA request was made. If they decide to flog the account on somewhere else, it will still be in dispute from the original CCA request to Moorcroft... and you can point this out to anyone who subsequently hassles you for payment.

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Im having great fun with Moorcroft at the moment.

I even phoned them tonight to ask if i could put my dinner on without being disturbed.

When i asked for the ladies address and date of birth, she wouldnt tell me.

I wonder why ?

As above..You dont need to worry, but i would personally pay off any debt that i owed, " if possible. "

Good luck.

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.


NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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Heres a good read.

I suggest letter b, of £1 per month.You can always up it a bit later.


I Wish you everything you wish yourself.


NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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Hi, today I received a letter from there subsidiary, midaslegalservices stating that they have been asked to prepare a file prior to the commencement of any legal action and that I must contact them today regarding the full payment of an increased amoiunt of £302.97 or further action will be taken.


I would guess I should just reply and offer a settlement of £1 a month, otherwise this debt is just going to increase week by week and then possibly be sold off and I'll just have to deal with it for the the next 10 years I bet.

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They are just piling on the pressure in the hope that you'll cave in. As said, no CCA = no enforceable debt. Send the following by rec. delivery...


Dear Midas Legal,


Ref xxxxxxx


Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/2007, together with your proposals for legal action.


However, a legal request for a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974) was received by xxxxx on xx/xx/2007. Since I now have it in writing that no such Agreement is available and that the account is therefore "unenforceable via a court order", the above account remians in dispute and no payments will be forthcoming.


I trust that this clarifies your position and mine. Please note however, that any further attampts to pursue me for payment on a disputed account will be forwarded to the appropriate authorities without further notice.


Yours faithfully,

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  • 3 weeks later...



Just an update, after sending a letter to Midas Legal, I have now received another letter from Moorcroft stating they are prestarted to start legal proceedings against me and I will be visisted by baliffs within the next fews days.


So what do I do now? It seems they are ignoring any type of letter I am sending them regarding them having to proof of any CCA.

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They can only send bailiffs round if they have a court order - they are bluffing. If a bailiff turns up it is only one of their doorstep agents - usually via Scotcall. Tell whoever (if they call) that the debt is in dispute and no CCA has been produced and that should court proceedings take place you will gladly see them there.

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What complete cobblers.

Their own letter gives you a cast iron defence.


As tiglet says take them to TS and OFT for starters.


Send them this.

Edit as needed.




Dear Sir/Madam


You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.


On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).


On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.


To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.


These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.





You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.


If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.


These limits have expired.


As you are no doubt aware section 77(4) states:


If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)


(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.




(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.


Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.


As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.


Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.


Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.


Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.


This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.


Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.


It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.


Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.


Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.


The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.


* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.



I will be reporting your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.



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Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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Thanks for the help, they have already sent me a letter that they have no original CCA for the amount they are trying to claim, also every letter they've sent me after confirming they have no CCA for the debt, they are adding £12 for each letter sent so the debt has now gone up £24 more.

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  • 1 month later...

Just a follow up, this outstanding debt has now been sold to another company.


The name being iQor Recovery Services Ltd.


Shall I follow the same steps as a Moorcroft, or just pay it? As it seems it's just going to get past from debt collector to debt collector.

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Throw this at Igor


Edit as needed


Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX


I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998


My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.


As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.


Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.


If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.


After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines


I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.


I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.


Yours faithfully

*- Delete as needed


Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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Not sure if things have crossed in the post, but got a different type of letter from iQor today, talking about the debt has been legally asigned to Phnenix Recoveries (UK) Limited, acting in the name and on behalf of its compartment "SDFS Recoveries" asking to send payment within 7 days or they will proceed with legal proceedings. I will just wait a few more days for another letter from them and see what happens.

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It makes you wonder, why they are bothering threatening you with legal action, when, in their own words it is unenforcable via a court order, surely a court order is legal action?


TF x

All my knowledge has been gained from personal experience and the sharing of advice from fellow members.

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Take all the letters to Trading Standards, a clear breach of OFT guidelines has taken place (as pointed out by Tiglet) and they should all be included in separate complaints (at £400 a time - a lot more than the alleged debt!).


You have my support on this, 9 times out of 10 the new DCA company (or pre-legal agents) are part of the same organisation and are based in the same offices - check the addresses on the letter and the names of the directors and you will be surprised at the links.

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9 times out of 10 the new DCA company (or pre-legal agents) are part of the same organisation and are based in the same offices - check the addresses on the letter and the names of the directors and you will be surprised at the links.


How very true.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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Just a follow up, I have two letters in my hand from iQor


One of them is saying that their actions will continue whether i read this notice or not about them commancing legal proceedings as applicable without further notice.


And another one about they are conducting an investigation into the matters I've raised about the proof of a CCA and will let me know as soon as any information is available.


The legal proceedings threat is dated 22nd November, and the one that is investigating the CCA is dated 26th November. So I would of though the case is now on hold. And to just put the legal proceedings letter to one side at the moment.

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I would read it taht way too - but don't hold your breath that they will - there is often miscommunication between departments.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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  • 6 months later...

Another update, about 8 months later.


Got a letter from Red Castle Recoveries.


Dear Mr. XXXXX


Our Client: Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Limited S.A Account was previously owned by: Great Universal

Total Debt: £242.94

Client Ref: XXXXXX


Your overdue account has been referred to us by Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Limited. Due to the time this debt has remained unresolved and unpaid, IMEDIATE action is now required.


If YOU make contact with us within 7 days with:

* Full settlement of a suitable offer of repayment

* A brief description of your circumstances and contact telephone numbers


Then WE will:

* Apply an immediate discount to the the debt

* Suspend any further action in recovery of this debt


If you fail to respond as indicated then we are instructed to continue with all available recovery methods, which may result in one of the following actions being taken:


* Instruction of our solicitors to commence legal proceedings against you

* An appointed agent visiting you at home


Please take this oppurtinity now and telephone us on XXXX where our trained advisors will resolve this matter with you.




So I believe just to sent off another letter to them, to provide a CCA? And that should keep them quiet for a while.

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