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Prosecuted by Tfl but CRB disclosure clean

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You are required to declare the conviction if asked for a period of.5 years from the date of conviction.

 

SPRO,

 

I don't want to create an impression that I am trying to break the rules and avoid declaring my circumstances. I just don't want to declare something I may not have. So my question is really - whether or not it may be the case that despite being taken to Court I don't have criminal record. Or why it may be the case that despite being convicted my CRB has returned clean.

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BazzaS,

 

I think technically I am not lying as it looks like I just don't have a conviction at all. I am not a specialist but I may have been conditionally discharged by the Court because of pleading guilty at the first opportunity and also some other mitigating factors which I included in the letter to the court (I wasn't present at the actual hearing).

 

If the Court dealt with the case in your absence you will have been sent a copy of the resulting register.

 

I have never experienced any instance when a conditional discharge could have been imposed without the defendant being present to hear the conditions of the discharge from the Magistrates.

 

Check the notice that you received from the Court following the date that the case was heard and disposed of.

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Check the notice that you received from the Court following the date that the case was heard and disposed of.

 

Old-CodJA,

 

I only received "Notice of the fine and collection order" following the hearings in which it said the following:

 

Offences and Impositions:

"1 / Attempt to travel on railway without paying fare"

 

And then it goes on and specifies the fine amount. Does it actually mean that I have a conviction and a criminal record? If it so, why does my disclosure certificate not reflect so?:?:

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Yes, if you were fined, you were convicted.

 

There is a lot of variation in the resulting of these offences and a basic check may not show it, but an enhanced search will almost certainly reveal the conviction.

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Enhanced check will show it.


All I ask is to be treated fairly and lawfully.

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enhanced search will almost certainly reveal the conviction.

 

Then it all comes down to the type of jobs I am applying to. I definitely don't need Enhanced disclosure because I don't work with vulnerable people or children. So in my case I will only get checked with Basic or Standard Disclosure.

 

Now, my understanding is that the difference between those two is that the Basic one lists all unspent convictions whereas the Standard one lists both spent and unspent. So by definition (unless spent already) I don't have this conviction. I am really confused here - why do I need to disclose something that is not coming up on the type of CRB needed for my level of required disclosure?

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Hi,

 

I was taken to court and prosecuted by Tfl for using someone else's Freedom pass last October. As far as I understood from this forum and other sources this is a recordable offence and results in a criminal record. However, I have just received my Basic Disclosure Certificate form Disclosure Scotland and it is clean with no record on it!

 

My question is, should I still tick the box "Convictions" on any pre-employment screening forms? I definitely don't need Enhanced disclosure because I don't work with vulnerable people or children so in my case I will only get checked with Basic or Standard Disclosure.

 

My understanding is that the difference between those two is that the Basic one lists all unspent convictions whereas the Standard one lists both spent and unspent. So it looks like (unless spent already) I just don't have this conviction.

 

So the conclusion is that since it didn't come up on the Basic disclosure I don't need to disclose it?

 

Any input would be highly appreciated!

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You are required to declare the conviction if asked for a period of.5 years from the date of conviction.

If you do not & the employer finds out you can be dismissed and/or prosecuted for gaining a pecunary advantage by not declaring as required or even worse, under S76 of POCA.

 

This is a matter for you and your conscience. None of us can tell you what to do. I think SRPO made the point clear in the posting above.

 

If you declare 'no convictions' and an employer later finds that not to be true, it will be their decision what they do about it.

 

This is not a conviction for a very serious offence and very few potential employers in my experience will be put off by it, but a lack of transparency might be viewed differently, who can say?

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Sorry was this a civil case (county court) if so it wont show as a conviction on either basic or std CRB


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Old-CodJa,

 

I get the point and I think it is fair. Just to confirm - is Tfl prosecution always a criminal matter and result in a criminal record booked if taken to Court or it could also be a civil case?

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Sorry was this a civil case (county court) if so it wont show as a conviction on either basic or std CRB

 

It was dealt in Magistrates court so I am pretty sure it should be a criminal matter.

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These are always criminal prosecutions.

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Old-CodJa,

 

I get the point and I think it is fair. Just to confirm - is Tfl prosecution always a criminal matter and result in a criminal record booked if taken to Court or it could also be a civil case?

 

None of these matters are civil cases.

 

Allegations resulting in prosecution for breach of Byelaw, or prosecution of an allegation of 'fare evasion' are summary matters heard in a criminal Court listing by Magistrates. A Summons to answer the allegation will be issued and the normal penalty on conviction is a fine. For a subsequent conviction in fare evasion cases a custodial sentence can be considered, but this is exceedingly rare.

 

I can understand why it happens, but the problem is that far too many people confuse 'fare evasion' with issue of a Penalty Fare Notice (PFN).

 

The PFN should NEVER be issued where staff suspect, or have gathered evidence of fare evasion.

 

A PFN may be issued ONLY in areas where authorised by DfT scheme and ONLY by an authorised person as a means of resolving what would otherwise automatically be reported as a breach of Byelaw.

 

A PFN is a civil remedy, but if the notice is not successfully resolved within 21 days by full payment, or successful appeal, the Rail Company is at liberty to cancel that notice and proceed to prosecution.

Edited by Old-CodJA

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Hi,

 

I was taken to court and prosecuted by Tfl for using someone else's Freedom pass last October. As far as I understood from this forum and other sources this is a recordable offence and results in a criminal record. However, I have just received my Basic Disclosure Certificate form Disclosure Scotland and it is clean with no record on it!

 

My question is, should I still tick the box "Convictions" on any pre-employment screening forms? I definitely don't need Enhanced disclosure because I don't work with vulnerable people or children so in my case I will only get checked with Basic or Standard Disclosure.

 

My understanding is that the difference between those two is that the Basic one lists all unspent convictions whereas the Standard one lists both spent and unspent. So it looks like (unless spent already) I just don't have this conviction.

 

So the conclusion is that since it didn't come up on the Basic disclosure I don't need to disclose it?

 

Any input would be highly appreciated!

 

What sentence did you receive? If it was an absolute discharge, the rehabilitation period is only 6 months, which you may have just come out of.

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What sentence did you receive? If it was an absolute discharge, the rehabilitation period is only 6 months, which you may have just come out of.

 

SKJP,

 

How do I find out if it was an absolute discharge? I wan't present at the hearing but I did plead guilty at the first opportunity and also sent a remorse letter to the court.

 

I received "Notice of the fine and collection order" following the hearings in which it read the following:

 

Offences and Impositions:

 

"1 / Attempt to travel on railway without paying fare"

 

And then it goes on and specifies the fine amount. Would the letter say that I have an absolute discharge? If it's not the case, it is really strange that my disclosure certificate not reflect the conviction.

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SKJP,

 

How do I find out if it was an absolute discharge? I wan't present at the hearing but I did plead guilty at the first opportunity and also sent a remorse letter to the court.

 

I received "Notice of the fine and collection order" following the hearings in which it read the following:

 

Offences and Impositions:

 

"1 / Attempt to travel on railway without paying fare"

 

And then it goes on and specifies the fine amount. Would the letter say that I have an absolute discharge? If it's not the case, it is really strange that my disclosure certificate not reflect the conviction.

 

OK, I THINK that if you got a fine, it's NOT an absolute discharge. An AD is basically no further action - the lowest form of sentence that can be passed in a criminal court, as far as I'm aware.

 

You could contact the court in question.

 

However, are you 100% sure that it was dealt with as a criminal matter, despite the presence of Magistrates? Magistrates can deal with some civil matters.

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As far as I know prosecution for an allegation of fare evasion are always heard in a criminal Court by Magistrates. So it's very unlikely to be a Civil matter.

 

Would you suggest I contact the court and ask why the conviction doesn't come up? I guess I still need to tick the box "convictions and fines" if asked.

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As far as I know prosecution for an allegation of fare evasion are always heard in a criminal Court by Magistrates. So it's very unlikely to be a Civil matter.

 

Would you suggest I contact the court and ask why the conviction doesn't come up? I guess I still need to tick the box "convictions and fines" if asked.

 

I note that this seems similar to:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?344682-Tfl-prosecution-but-CRB-clean&p=3779443

Mods, do these 2 threads need merging?

Edited by BazzaS

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you need to disclose it sadly.

 

it is a criminal matter.

 

dx


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