@mbna Makkapakka Vs MBNA Charges

[makkapakka69]

Hi all,

 

I'm about to start a reclaim of credit card charges from an old defuct MBNA account. I've already sent a SAR request for copy statements etc and received these back, and I'm currently preparing a SOC. There are 19 charges for late payments/over limits ranging from £25 - £12 from between 2004 and 2007, totalling just under £500.

 

I've had a good read through the forums for tips and advice, but I could do with some help to the following questions as some things seem to be contradicting themselves in different threads:

 

1) When calculating the APR, do you use the purchase or cash rate? According to the statements, i've had up to 4 different rates at any one time due to various promotional rates, so choosing the right one is proving tricky.

 

2) Do you use the APR at the time of the charge, or the final APR from your final statement/ closure of account?

 

3) Is it wise to go for full restitution through the courts, or just simple interest throgh the FOS?

 

4) Do you claim compound interest from the date of the charge to the present day, or only for when the account was in debit, and then simple interest when in credit?

 

5) Do the FOS deal with non PPI complaints faster, or does everything go in one queue?

 

 

This account was charged off in 2008, and sold to a DCA. Unluckily for them, they bought a turkey as there was no valid agreement or original t's and c's. When I challenged them, they put the account on hold and then later confirmed to me in writing that they would not be persuing the account any further. RESULT!!!

 

These charges are the final piece of the jigsaw with this account and then it can be finished with for good.

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[ims21]

Hi all,

 

I'm about to start a reclaim of credit card charges from an old defuct MBNA account. I've already sent a SAR request for copy statements etc and received these back, and I'm currently preparing a SOC. There are 19 charges for late payments/over limits ranging from £25 - £12 from between 2004 and 2007, totalling just under £500.

 

I've had a good read through the forums for tips and advice, but I could do with some help to the following questions as some things seem to be contradicting themselves in different threads:

 

1) When calculating the APR, do you use the purchase or cash rate? According to the statements, i've had up to 4 different rates at any one time due to various promotional rates, so choosing the right one is proving tricky.

 

Purchase rate if not going for interest in restitution. Use the average of the rate they used over the lifetime of the card. If using full restitution and compensation for unjust enrichment you can use a higher rate than on the card. Sempra Metals is the case law

 

2) Do you use the APR at the time of the charge, or the final APR from your final statement/ closure of account?

 

See above

 

3) Is it wise to go for full restitution through the courts, or just simple interest throgh the FOS?

 

Your call really

 

4) Do you claim compound interest from the date of the charge to the present day, or only for when the account was in debit, and then simple interest when in credit?

 

To present day...they have had your money to the present day and earned interest on it

 

5) Do the FOS deal with non PPI complaints faster, or does everything go in one queue?

 

Fos is always slow

 

 

This account was charged off in 2008, and sold to a DCA. Unluckily for them, they bought a turkey as there was no valid agreement or original t's and c's. When I challenged them, they put the account on hold and then later confirmed to me in writing that they would not be persuing the account any further. RESULT!!!

 

These charges are the final piece of the jigsaw with this account and then it can be finished with for good.

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

ims

[makkapakka69]

Thanks for your reply.

 

I'd like to go for full restitution on this I think. Dont like MBNA!

 

Are there any success stories when doing this? Cant imagine they would give up their money easily, so are they likely to defend all the way?

 

What is the higher APR you can use? Is it the cash APR?

 

MP.

[ims21]

Hi

 

You may well have to see the inside of the court room and justify the principle of restitution to a judge. Even if it does not get that far you would still need to be conversant with the case law and principle just in case it does get to court.

 

My view is that you should always be prepared for them to defend.

 

Different banks deal with things differently...Barclaycard for example tend to cave in before court while Capital One have been defending with vigour.

 

What was the rate on the card?

 

Have you had a look through the MBNA forum for successes. Also there are some good threads in the Barclaycard forum which will outline the general principles of preparing the court case and the process.

 

Also have a read of No.4 in my signature.

 

ims

[makkapakka69]

The cash apr's ranged from 15.9% to 27.9% during the time the account was active.

 

The purchase rate is harder to work out as the SAR only gives the rates as A B C D and indicates when an increase occurred. I am assuming that D is the cash rate as this is the highest at any one time. MBNA always had an urge to offer special discounted aprs from time to time, so the card balance was always made up of different transactions with different aprs charged.

 

The statements are not printed as when they were orginally sent out. They are just one list, 8 pages long with all transactions dated and listed in order. I have been cross referencing them to the APR hikes listed in the comms log and applying the rate at that time.

 

Highest APR issued just before the account went under was definately 27.9% though.

 

MP.

[makkapakka69]

There is certainly alot of info in the links you mentioned. Looks like I might have a long road ahead.

 

So just to confirm, if claiming for restitution, I can claim at a higher rate than the purchase rate. I have worked out all the cash rates at each point of charge.

 

MP.

[ims21]

Yes you can claim a higher rate than the purchase rate but always bear in mind that it is you who may have to justify your claim to the courts

 

ims

[makkapakka69]

Right, thanks.

 

I'll get the letter and SOC typed up and posted out.

 

MP.

[makkapakka69]

Hi again,

 

I've been busy sorting out the SOC.

 

The total claim is just over £2,000 with the interest included. I used the compound interest calculator on egalegal.com, setting the rests to monthly and ticking the 360 day box.

 

An example:

Original charge date 19/3/05 of £25 @ apr 21.9% = £117.49

 

Does this sound right?

 

Also, do I make it clear in my letter now that I intend to sue for restitution if they do not play ball, or do I wait until the LBA letter to disclose this?

 

Thanks.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Good preliminary letter in post #31 here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309037-Charges-older-than-6-years-***WON***-Compound-Int-t-and-**NO-SET-OFF**/page2

 

Just amend to suit. Note the bits about going back further than six years if you have charges beyond that time.

 

If you read that thread it will give you a lot of information and guidance

 

Use this spreadsheet to work out your claim amount

 

CISheet v101.xls

 

You can just amend the prelim letter to say that you want the charges back plus interest in restitution amounting to £x

 

ims

[makkapakka69]

Excellent!!!

 

Just the type of letter I was searching for. I'll pull the best bits out and re-work it into what i've already written.

 

Looks like an excellent thread to read through, many thanks for the link.

 

I've already manually typed up a SOC using the compound interest calcalator. I previously tried the spraedsheet link, but it wont load as I dont have Microsoft Office or Excel on this laptop, and my desktop keeps crashing when it tries to load it. Just wanted to check my calculation above was correct.

 

MP.

[ims21]

An example:

Original charge date 19/3/05 of £25 @ apr 21.9% = £117.49

 

Does this sound right?

 

 

Looks about right to me

[Madge67]

Hey Makka - Hows it going so far. Im just about to complete my N1 form to claim charges between 2003 and 2005. MBNA have already paid up from 2005 onwards but are refusing to repay more than 6 years. I have decided to claim interest at 24.9 even though the rate at the time I took this out was a whopping 34.9%. I want to appear fair and also this keeps it below 5000 (the limit for small claims). Ill be keeping an eye on your thread to soo how you get on - good luck with your claim

 

Madge

[makkapakka69]

Hiya Madge,

 

Sent my prelim letter last off last week. Have given them 21 days to respond because of the Easter weekend. Trying to be nice to them!

 

I have decided to use the apr at the time the charge was added to the account, so mine varies from 15.9% to 27.9%.

 

Did they refund you the charges within the past 6 years without the fight then, and did you get back the full amount plus restitution interest?

 

MP.

[Madge67]

Ohhh you are so very kind arent you ? MBNA ared REALLY slow at responding I think it takes a fortnight for a letter to work its way to the right dept. Good luck though, lets wait and see what they come up with for you.

My story is

1) Prelim letter sent asking for charges 2003 - 2011 plus interest at 34.9

2) Letter recd offering demying the charges were unfair and offering goodwill pyt of 225.00

3) Letter sent saying bogoff and remiding them of the guidelines and if they dont pay up - off to curt we go

4) Letter recd saying awwww ok then we will pay you all charges from 2005 plus interest of 34.9 (actual) total 2100.00

5) Letter sent saying thanks very much, now pay me the rest that you owe me under section 32 of llimitations act or off to court we go

6) Letter recd saying no way, we dont have to pay you for charges older than 6 years

 

So thats it really - They still owe me more than 4'000 so I am happy to put a claim in. Just a matter of getting N1 and POC completed properly.

 

Madge

[Madge67]

Oh dear - sorry about the typing - i must be reeeeally tired - Im off to bed zzzzz gnite folks

[makkapakka69]

Gives me a bit of hope that they will come back with some sort of offer before letting it go to court.

 

My charges range from 2004 to 2007, so some are over the 6 year limit. I've quoted the Kleinwort Benson case in my letter for the earlier charges.

 

TBH they replied to my SAR well within the 40 days and did send everything I requested, unlike LLoyds - buts thats another story..............................

 

Good luck with your case, i'll be keeping this thread updated with any progress on mine.

 

MP.

[makkapakka69]

UPDATE:

 

Well, the 21 days have come and gone, with no reply from MBNA so it looks like its onto the LBA.

 

Will a fresh copy of the prelim letter surfice with just date and heading changed?

 

MP.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Yes it will. As you say, change the heading to "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" and put a final paragraph to the effect that if they do not reply you will issue proceedings without further recourse to them.

 

Of course, only threaten court action if you intend to go through with it

 

ims

[makkapakka69]

Thanks, will do.

 

Do I need to update the SOC or would this be done automatically at a later date?

 

MP.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Yes send them an updated spreadsheet showing the interest right up to date.

 

ims

[makkapakka69]

UPDATE:

 

I've received a reply from MBNA. The usual stuff - thank you for your letter, we will respond within 28 days.

 

Now, the letter is dated from before I sent off the LBA, so must be in response to my prelim letter. Do I sit back and wait for a reply within the 28 days, or do I stick to my timeframe of 14 days?

 

Also, if they offer partial settlement, can I re-negoiate with them before starting the claim even though i've already sent them the LBA?

 

Thanks,

 

MP.

[ims21]

Stick to your own time scales.

 

You can negotiate with them right up to the court doors.

 

ims

[makkapakka69]

Thanks ims.

 

They received the LBA on Tuesday this week, so i'll see if they reply back within 14 days from then.

 

12 days and counting............................

 

MP.

[Madge67]

Hi Makka

 

I decided to give MBNA time to reply b4 starting a claim - just to avoid the time and money really. Ive submitted my claim this week after they refused to pay my charges back further than 6 years. They agreed to pay from 2005 onwards after I sent a letter that someone advised me to do from here. I thinks its still on my thread if you need it at any time. the main thing is dont give up, especially as they offered a puny amount at first, then because of sending that letter from this forum, they offered a lot more. Although it still isnt enough, it just goes to show hoe wonderful this site if for its advice and guidance through these processes. I bet they offer you the same as me which was the difference between the actual charge and the 12.00, from 2006 plus interest.

 

Madge