Halifax allow Money Shop to DRAIN my benefits & create unauthorised OD against my wishes

[huxleypig69]

Ok, here's the deal - I opened a current account with the Halifax years and years ago.

 

I specifically stated that I didn't want an overdraft so I didn't go into any sort of debt and therefore no unfair charges could be applied.

The explicitly promised me that under no circumstances could I ever go overdrawn with this current account.

 

Over the years I have erroneously tried to buy something or withdraw using funds that I did not have and EVERY single time it has been rejected.

This is what I would expect to happen as I have no overdraft facility.

 

I took a loan out with The Money Shop.

 

I was paying it off but last week they tried to take £37.50 out of my account for a monthly repayment.

 

 

However, I only had £30.00 in the account and as such their request for the funds was refused. They tried to take it a total of 4 times, each time it got refused.

 

on Monday I have a benefit payment go into the account.

I tried to go to withdraw it but was horrified to see that I was somehow over £200.00 overdrawn!

On an overdraft that I never had, asked for or authorised.

 

It turned out that on the Monday The Money Shop attempted to take the whole of the loan amount from my account.

For some inexplicable reason the bank authorised the transaction this time despite there being only £50.00 in the account (£0.00 if it took place before my benefit went in).

 

I don't blame The Money Shop for trying to take the money, after all I owed it to them.

 

What I object to is the bank giving it to them despite me not having it.

 

To compound matters even more the amount that they have forced me to go overdrawn is greater then the benefits that have been paid in

so therefore I can't get access to these important funds that I need to survive!

 

I went into the bank to complain but they were EXTREMELY unhelpful.

After passing me off from person to person they made me use their hotline (to nowhere) and then after going round from person to person on the phone

I decided to speak to the branch manager.

 

She was borderline rude saying that if I owed The Money Shop the money then they had every right to take it.

 

True, they have every right to try to take it but if I simply don't have it then surely it is not ok for them to effectively force a loan from the bank in my name just to pay themselves off!

 

Then the bank get to charge me even more on the 'unauthorised overdraft'!

 

So I asked why the transactions had been refused every single time in the past but this time it had gone through?

She said that I'm lucky and every other transaction ever that I didn't have the funds for should have gone through and I should've got charged every time for it!!!

 

Of course, this isn't the way it works, if The Money Shop were under the impression that I owed them £1m then by this logic they could ask the bank for it,

the bank would pay them £1m and then I'd be forced to pay the bank the £1m back plus charges and interest!

 

The fact that I do not have the money is irrelevant?

 

They could not furnish me with any answers, were rude and thoroughly unhelpful.

 

So I find myself without the benefits I need to survive and in a debt that had been forced upon me without my permission.

 

I understand that they can take their bank charges and thus force you into an unarranged overdraft

but if the funds are not there then it is their fault that they have authorised a transaction for a substantially larger amount.

 

 

Sorry for the long post and any advice massively appreciated!! Cheers.

[dx100uk]

firstly fire off the notice of appropriation letter to halifax [see the library green tab top left]

 

see how that rolls out,

 

secondly

 

i'll move this thread to the PDL forum

 

as there are lots of the same issues there.

 

the od will need to be dealt with too with halifax that is out of order.

 

as for them allowing the payments to go out they are WRONG again:

 

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companie

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/s - it works!

 

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

This fsa guide has now been updated:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/consumer_...ghts_guide.pdf

 

Here's the text:

 

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

 

When you give your credit or debit card

details to a company and authorise

them to take regular payments from

your account, such as for a gym

membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’

or ‘continuous payment authority’.

These are often confused with direct

debits, but do not offer the same

guarantee if the amount or date of the

payment changes.

In most cases, regular payments can

be cancelled by telling the company

taking the payments. However, you

have the right to cancel them directly

with your bank or card issuer by telling

it that you have stopped permission for

the payments. Your bank or card issuer

must then stop them – it has no right to

insist that you agree this first with the

company taking the payments.

Be aware, though, that you will still be

responsible for paying any money that

you owe.

 

dx

[huxleypig69]

Email and letters written and sent. Thanks guys, much appreciated.

 

Unfortunately I need this money ASAP and I don't think I'm going to get it any time soon. As things stand I've not even charged them for my expenses or from the domino effect of having my money denied to me (I'm now overdue on my rent, electricity and gas and facing charges off them because of Halifax's mistake). The way I see it this is THEIR screw up and as such I should be slapping them with charges left, right and centre.

 

I now have to change the details of where my benefits get paid because it'll take a further £170.00 just to get my account back to zero and I can't afford what they've done already!

 

What has annoyed me the most is the attitude of the workers inside my local branch. Especially the manager; She first said that the bank always honour debit transactions but when I pointed out that they didn't honour the 4 attempts last week, or Tesco's when i went 46p over what my funds would allow she then changed her tune to saying when I signed the agreement with The Money Shop it somehow authorised them to enforce an overdraft on me in order to pay them!! Even though they didn't do this 4 times last week! She squirmed and waffled and was so condescending and patronising it was untrue. It ended with her saying that if I went back the next day then I could speak to someone in head office who would talk me through the relevant bits of my terms and conditions with the bank (regarding my current account)!!

 

So I was wondering if there would be anywhere is said terms and conditions where it states that the bank will honour ANY transaction (or some and not others) no matter how much the company are requesting and no matter what funds you have available? I look forward to what they say but TBH I don't really have the time or inclination to be spoken down to again for hours.

[citizenB]

In situations such as this you should only communicate in writing. That way you have a paper trail of what is said. and you would not have been subjected to the same kind of attitude received in branch .

[DarrenAs]

@ Dx100uk

 

Just to say that sadly that method - telling a bank not to make payments / withdrawing continuous payment authority does not work with Santander.

 

I've written about it elsewhere on these forums - but Santander refused requests to do that on the phone, by secure online message, and ignored the letter I sent by recorded delivery. I quoted all the FSA guidance, and their own terms & conditions - and they denied all knowledge. In the end they told me to complain to the ombudsman if I wasn't happy.

 

They said that as soon as I sign a contract with a PD loan company, there is no way for Santander to stop them taking their money, even if the money is not there.

 

I just wanted to make sure the moderating team here know that this is happening. In theory the legislation is on our side. In practice the banks aren't interested.

 

(And very best of luck to Huxleypig in getting your situation sorted out)

[renegadeimp]

@ Dx100uk

 

Just to say that sadly that method - telling a bank not to make payments / withdrawing continuous payment authority does not work with Santander.

 

 

I've written about it elsewhere on these forums - but Santander refused requests to do that on the phone, by secure online message, and ignored the letter I sent by recorded delivery. I quoted all the FSA guidance, and their own terms & conditions - and they denied all knowledge. In the end they told me to complain to the ombudsman if I wasn't happy.

 

They said that as soon as I sign a contract with a PD loan company, there is no way for Santander to stop them taking their money, even if the money is not there.

 

I just wanted to make sure the moderating team here know that this is happening. In theory the legislation is on our side. In practice the banks aren't interested.

 

(And very best of luck to Huxleypig in getting your situation sorted out)

 

Tell then the FSA say different and if they refuse your instructions then a full complaint will be filed.

[huxleypig69]

Here's a good one. I got in touch with them, sent my letters and such and they've replied saying they can't look into my complaint until they get confirmation of my address and telephone number!!!

 

So I've written back telling them that the one they currently have on file is correct but why this should stop them investigating baffles me.

 

Knowing full well my desperate circumstances I suggested that they should have investigated as a matter of urgency and sought any address confirmation afterwards.

 

Oh yeah, they said if I don't reply and confirm within 2 weeks then they'll assume that I'm happy and they can forget it!!!!!

 

Jokers or what?

 

They're now incurring charges, expenses and are liable for all the charges that I have subsequently incurred due to their errors and incompetence.

 

And this total is ever growing...

[renegadeimp]

Change bank accounts. Halifax have become terrible over the last few years.

[huxleypig69]

Well I've got a Natwest account now but I think I'm right in saying that they're part of the same group anyway aint they?

[renegadeimp]

Nope. Natwest in my experience ( held a current account for over 10 years) have been very good.

[johnvernon74]

I have mentioned this numerous times about PDL companies.

 

They are illegally taking money from accounts when they are aware that the OP has no money.

 

When they get a decline, they then manually do an offline transaction with a MADE UP authorisation number.

 

An example of this is that if I was to do an offline transaction in work for say £10,000 and the person had no money as long as I keyed in a Authorisation number it would go through.!!!

 

So the PDL are committing fraud as they are making these authorisation numbers up.

 

They way you could confirm this is ask the Halifax what the authorisation number is.

 

Then ask them which merchant processed the transaction (probably streamline) and then send them a SAR asking if the authorisation number is genuine.

 

I guarantee it will not be real.

 

Let Halifax know that this is what happened and make sure they investigate as transaction should not (and was not) authorised.

[huxleypig69]

So I told Halifax and they just totally ignored the fraudulent bit. Said that they couldn't explain why the other 4 transactions didn't go through (maybe because the funds weren't there?) but that continuous payment authorities can take you averdrawn without an overdraft facility!!! I got an offer of £20 for poor service in the branch!

 

So I called them. Told them to 1) supply me with the overdraft agreement I signed (doesn't exist) 2) supply me the terms and conditions (with my signature on it) where it says continuous payment authorities will be honoured no matter what the amount and 3) that the transaction WAS fraudulent and that me telling them that had been continuously ignored. I also stated that they are continually incurring charges which I am going to hold them liable and that it's going to the FSA, the FOS and the small claims court. So they said they'd rather it dodn't go that far and that they'd re-assess and get back to me TUESDAY!! That's no good to me, I need this **** sorting NOW!

 

Can I confirm that The Money Shop will have done this with a fraudulent authorisation number?

[renegadeimp]

CPA's cant take you overdrawn. If they do then theres something not quite right. Especailly if they wont let you cancel them. On my natwest account, the transactions get pre-authorised as usual then after 3 days fall off and get declined.

[johnvernon74]

CPA's cant take you overdrawn. If they do then theres something not quite right. Especailly if they wont let you cancel them. On my natwest account, the transactions get pre-authorised as usual then after 3 days fall off and get declined.

 

I diagree, if the PDL company do it as a manual off line payment and "make up" authorisation number any transaction will go through. I agree with what you say about CPA's but these PDL are overriding the system and manually cheating it.

 

The OP must ask for the authorisation numbers, and see what they relate to - I guarantee they are mad up

[sillygirl1]

Halifax are very poor at dealing with this type of issue - so anyone who does online transactions needs to have an account purely for online transactions separate from the account they have their income paid into. It is a pain but it is the only way to protect your income.

[FrugalJo]

Okay this interesting. As I'm on the threshold of my battle. About to send letter to withdraw my consent for PDL's CPA. I think I'll include a a paragraph to advise that should any of these payments go through I will be asking for authoristion numbers.

[sillygirl1]

I've been saying for ages now you MUST get a new bank account number, simply changing your card is not enough nor will wrtiting to the bank stop it as the companies will simply use their 'parent or sister' company to gain access to your funds (it is buried in their terms and conditions now so they are 'allowed' this abuse).

 

It is the only safe way to regain control of your finances.

 

Use the old account to pay them from, putting funds into it the day before, using cash if that is possible.

[FrugalJo]

Hi Sillygirl. I do have a totally new account, new bank etc. Have control of incoming funds. Just looking at what may happen if they push my toxic account into unauthorised OD.

[2009dg]

Just to say that sadly that method - telling a bank not to make payments / withdrawing continuous payment authority does not work with Santander.

 

And Natwest, they replied to my letter saying they continue to pay PDLs and I have to take it up with them. They did only mention 2 of the 4 I named so it might just depend on the PDL company.

[renegadeimp]

Thats a problem with the specific branch then 2009dg. Under FSA rules, they have to cancel it when you ask. There is no requirement that you need to tell the initial party first. It's in plain black and white in the FSA guide.

[huxleypig69]

OK, so I got my latest joke of a reply from Halifax. They say now that the payments are all "guaranteed payments" and as such can take me overdrawn into an overdraft that I do not have! Ironically, they have sent me a different letter telling me that I'm still in an unauthorised overdraft and in this letter they go on to explain that should a transaction 'bounce' due to there being lack of funds in the account then it's a £10 charge. So why does this charge even exists if all of these payments are "guaranteed"? Surely this situation would never arise, why even mention it?

 

Their reply also states that balance checks are only ever done in a tiny proportion of cases. But why are they done at all if all these debit transactions are "guaranteed"? What would be the point? It is my responsibility to ensure that there are enough funds in the acount to pay for any transactions that may happen (even if they're out of the blue and for amounts I didn't authorise). I know it is just flannel and they are trying to fob me off. No transaction is ever guaranteed, if that was the case then the banks would be in even bigger trouble than they already are. We all know that this is simply not how it works.

 

They also agree to my right of appropriation but (get this) if I assert it more than once they will withdraw my banking facilities with them!! How bad is that?

 

So I've replied telling them to:

1) Give me solid proof that these transactions are guaranteed despite the amount and despite of the available funds in the account. That they can forcefully take me into an overdraft that I do not have.

2) A copy of the contract (signed by me) agreeing to point 1.

3) A copy of the contract (signed by me) agreeing to the overdraft.

4) Proof that the authorisation numbers are genuine.

5) A valid reason as to why I was explicitly told that in no way could I ever go overdrawn when in all likelihood the chance is 100% because at some point a transaction will be attempted that is greater than my available funds and as these transactions are all guaranteed it WILL take me overdrawn.

[renegadeimp]

Pity theyre not guaranteed payments at all. Especially since you expressely said to block all payments. Really, you need to consider action for fraud/theft against them now as you have advised both sides NOT to debit money yet both sides have ignored you.

 

Get another bank account, get all your money into that account for day to day usage , and find a very basic account somewhere that you can send money to for bills when YOU want to pay them. Close that halifax account down and have NOTHING more to do with them.

 

As for the notice of appropriation thing, i would be on to the FSA about that.

 

Edit,w hen you read my post, you will see the word halifax is now a link, mouse over it for some interesting details.

[huxleypig69]

Oh, I have already done that, I'm with the Natwest now. It's just a basic account with no overdraft. Just like the one I set up with The Halifax!!

[renegadeimp]

Sounds like the one i have. However, go into your branch and discuss what has happened with your bank manager. They may have procedures to help you out. Especially if you notify them well in advance of what previously happened. Just make sure that NO bills apart from rent, gas etc come out of your new account. Create a completely new and separate account for your other bills.

[uaruman]

if you read of my experiences with the Halifax Bank (Wills and Probate) you will find that the Halifax Bank totally ignore the law, ignore solicitors letters and refuse to assist even Administrators. The eventual outcome takes several years and the result is rarely satisfactory. They have an answer for everything. Just find another bank and get a new account. My step-daughter, who is severely disabled (brain damage as the result of a car accident) was given an o/d of £2500.00. She could neither afford it and it was never requested. The same bank refused her a loan because of her supposed inability to pay and yet were more than happy to charge her exorbitant o/d fees whilst (unbe-known to me) refusing to let her withdraw her incapacity benefits (a very simple picture of the true facts)

 

Needless to say, after several letters, the use of the Disability Act and the threat of press involvement, the Halifax Bank have withdrawn all threats and (for the time being) gone away. Banks are there purely to make money. There is no such thing as a 'good' Bank. The Halifax, at least for me, is the absolute bottom of these particular feeders.

Edited April 29, 2012 by uaruman
clarification on the use of the disability act