Log Book Loans - removed my car from outside house - previous owners debt!!

[Spider_Kel]

Hi Guys

I can see lots has already been posted on the subject of' Log Book Loans' mine is a slightly different one as I have owned the car for a year and they [edit] it from outside of the house last week with no prior notification. They are now going by the name of Hermes Property/CC Collections as well as Nine Regions Ltd trading as Log Book Loans.

 

I have a copy of the bill of sale signed by the previous owner dated 16/12/2010, logged at the high court with a stamp 22/12/2010. I have not seen a credit agreement. I have contacted HPI and they have confirmed a claim was put on the vehicle by this mob 16/12/2010.

 

The police have been next to useless and not interested calling this a cival matter, at what poit does it become a legal issue of theft? including the personal contents in the car and the fact that I am paying the road tax and insurance but do not know where the car is being stored.

 

The collections company Grosvenor credit management and investigators do not want to know and have now passed back to CC Collections and funny enough their phone line is now dead.

 

I have emailed the OFT today and Consumer Direct with all the info and a copy of the Bill of sale. I have found citizen advice not so helpful and although the rep who they transfered me to at Consumer Direct was trying to be helpful came back with no information to help me get the car back other than speak to the garage as it is their responsibility. The garage do not give two hoots as they have their cash from me for the car. Basically both myself and the garage bough the car in good faith 'innocent purchasers' after using a car check mycarcheck.com which was not and is still not showing any outstanding finace owing.(I do not have a copy of the original check but did one a few days ago)

 

Please help me I am going crazy with frustration CC Collections are telling me to wait 14 days for them to get back to me aaaahhhhhhh

Edited March 25, 2012 by honeybee13
Removing contentious word.

[Hip_Hop]

Spider Kel,

 

I am going to cut to the quick here. You are a victim of of a previous registered keeper of your vehicle that took out a loan secured by way of a Bill of Sale. This Bill of Sale gave the lender the right to secure possession of their property if certain triggering events occur. The Bill of Sale is the transfer of ownership to the lender. The lender allows the borrower to continue to have use if they keep up payments and once loan has been fully repaid, the Bill of Sale is settled as the loan has been completed so no need for security.If they fail to keep up repayments they can possess their property provided they follow certain protocols. This is a civil matter so the police will not be interested.

 

You need to go to the court tomorrow and fill in a claim. You need to write immediately by recorded post that you have started legal proceedings against Hermes and want them to stop the sale of the vehicle at auction. You need to find out which car auction the collection guys taken your car to and write to them too to tell them that you have commenced legal proceedings and that they must stop from selling your vehicle as it is a matter of legal dispute. If you wait one more day you will find that your car has been sold and you will be chasing shadows. Look and read relevant posts on the CAG but act NOW! Or you will be too late.

 

A change in log book details gives the collection guys all the info they need. If they took the car off of a public highway than they are perfectly entitled to do so without a court order. Off of private property and it is a different matter, a court order is required.

 

I am writing this quickly so that you have the bare bones to work on as I see no one has responded to your posting. See my earlier postings for further advice etc

[Spider_Kel]

Hi Hip Hop

 

Thanks for responding as you see this is keeping me awake at night! Congratulations for your success - great determination and gusto demonstrated here!!!! These people are really discusting taking advantage of peoples predicaments - such shonky practice and they are still advertiisng I thought the OFT had revoked their license to canvass new business- cant they see it on Google??????? Ive reported it to OFT!

 

Todays update I have gone back to them stating that the bill of sale is not enforceable as the wittness is not a credible wittness, this has been signed by an agent of LogBook Loans/Nine Regions at a branch of CashCheckers with no name and no personal address details provided. As the bill states that representatives who benefit or are associated with the credit agreement or act as agents can not sign as a credible wittness, this renders it void. There are also several inconsistencies in the wording which do not follow the guidleines for a Bill of Sale.

 

Thefore, I can only conclude that the vehicle has been removed illegally with no warrent or court order for removal. Also the act states that the item should remain at the property for atleast 5 days to allow for representation prior to removal, in which case we would have sought a court injunction to prevent removal. We can not afford to continue to be without a vehicle as stated previously this is costing us a significant amoun tof money in travel and loss of earnings.

 

The role of Grosvenor in the removal of the vehicle can not be ignored, as the title of the vehicle was unclear and they have acted on behalf of CC Collections in an unfit and unfair manner against the OFT Debt Recovery Code. By removing the vehicle without any prior notification, or notification on the night, at a unsuitable hour, not giving us the opportunity to make payment, provide keys or remove personal belongings. By causing significant embarrassment and a great deal of distress and has resulted in loss of earnings forthe owner as the vehicle is a necessary tool for his day to day work committments and function and I understand these types of goods are exempt from being used as colateral by a bailiff in any event. So I am logging a complaint against the baliffs. I emailed them yesterday - they are yet to respond.

 

I have also been made aware that CC Colections do not currently hold a Consumer Credit License, therfore they are operating illegally which according to OFT is a illegal and imprissonable offence. Hermes property do have a CCL but the number that CC Collections have given is registered under Spring Capital Finance as per the OFT database.

 

The garage that I purchased the vehicle from have gone bankrupt so I have no way to take any action against them for selling me the vehicle.

 

So basically I have a couple of good points of law, the car is only worth approx £1000 why should I pay for someone elses debt or be without a car for months on end while i take this to court and it could go on for months. PLus the time order costs about £150?? I need to weigh up the cost in regards to the stress, loss of earnings, phone bills, travel costs and course of action to get a vehicle hired for the next few months as to whether it is worth progressing or they can keep the car and get a couple of hundred for it at auction.

 

I have the morning booked off work tomorrow so will have one last chat with them and see what their stance is if not i'll make a decision to say goodbye to the car, go to court for the time order or get a letter from Consumer Direct putting the auction on hold for 30 days while I complie my case.

 

Why doesnt the government protect innocent consumers - I am so dissapointed

[Hip_Hop]

Hi Hip Hop

 

I thought the OFT had revoked their license to canvass new business- cant they see it on Google??????? Ive reported it to OFT!

 

You are being distracted Spider_Kel. Whom are you accusing of canvassing new business? Also, I am not aware that Hermes Property or CC Collection have had any license revoked. Reporting it to OFT will not get your car back they dont take up legal cases for the individual in the arena of Logbook Loans in any case. as part of a process to revoke yes but not for the individual, alas.

 

Todays update I have gone back to them stating that the bill of sale is not enforceable as the wittness is not a credible wittness, this has been signed by an agent of LogBook Loans/Nine Regions at a branch of CashCheckers with no name and no personal address details provided. As the bill states that representatives who benefit or are associated with the credit agreement or act as agents can not sign as a credible wittness, this renders it void.

 

Alas, It doesn't render it void, only a judge can render it void and he won't if it has already been registered. IMHO

 

There are also several inconsistencies in the wording which do not follow the guidleines for a Bill of Sale.

 

This and your other anomalies are what you should put in your claim and a photocopy of this should be sent to all parties as it may take too long if you wait for the court to serve it on them as you will find the car has been sold in the interim and they get served days later with no car to retrieve!

Try and find out who the account manager at auction house is for Hermes/Logbook Loans and send him a copy too that will send shivers up his backbone and put added pressure at the auction house if it is still there. Remember this is just a game to them. Most they win and occasionally one they don't, but on the whole they win because by the time the patsy has figured out that the queen was never there the 3 card conman has scarpered!. That's why it was a 20 Million pound a year business for LBL and they will use whatever other tricks/distractions are available. The OFT know this!

 

Thefore, I can only conclude that the vehicle has been removed illegally with no warrent or court order for removal.

That is your conclusion but the legal case is the legal case and that is for you to put in your Particulars of Claim and await a hearing and their legal argument too.

 

The role of Grosvenor in the removal of the vehicle can not be ignored, as the title of the vehicle was unclear and they have acted on behalf of CC Collections in an unfit and unfair manner against the OFT Debt Recovery Code. By removing the vehicle without any prior notification, or notification on the night, at a unsuitable hour, not giving us the opportunity to make payment, provide keys or remove personal belongings. By causing significant embarrassment and a great deal of distress and has resulted in loss of earnings forthe owner as the vehicle is a necessary tool for his day to day work committments and function and I understand these types of goods are exempt from being used as colateral by a bailiff in any event. So I am logging a complaint against the baliffs. I emailed them yesterday - they are yet to respond.

 

Why is the title of the vehicle unclear? It's their property If they have a Bill of Sale that acts as security, and their property was on the highway they will claim that they have possessed their property. You are not the defaulter so they don't need to inform you they will say. They will suggest that your case is against the garage that sold you the car that was not theirs to sell.

 

They will make a case that they have bought the loans from Nine Regions who are under administration(I believe) and they were making good a Bill of Sale that they purchased with the book loans of Log Book Loans. You will probably find that no Bailiffs were involved just collection agents. Remember you must make a valid legal case that they have acted illegally., I can't make that assumption for you just by what I have read here.

 

I am not making light of your predicament, it's just I call a spade a spade and I tell it as it is. It avoids false hope and gets people to focus on what options are truly available.

 

You need to get the legal process started let them know that you have issued a claim against them and that under no circumstances are they to dispose of your property whilst it is a matter of legal dispute. That should buy you 5 to 10 working days. Everything else is a red Herring.

 

 

I have the morning booked off work tomorrow so will have one last chat with them and see what their stance is if not i'll make a decision to say goodbye to the car, go to court for the time order or get a letter from Consumer Direct putting the auction on hold for 30 days while I complie my case.

I assume their stance will be that they have the vehicle and it is being auctioned or put on ebay if it of low value and any monies secured will go against unpaid debt with a further claim to be chased if there is anything else outstanding. You will not be chased as you are obviously not the defaulter.

 

Sorry for the long response but I do feel passionately that good advice is always helpful no matter if it isn't what people always want to hear.

 

 

Just so you are abundantly clear on this. They will not be in the slightest concerned or worried that you feel they have acted illegally. None of these types of businesses are. It is only a legal claim and the possibilities of having a judgement made against them and costs that will make them stop in their tracks.

 

It's all about losses. If their loss potential is greater than what they will achieve on disposing of this vehicle than they will think twice before selling it. Hot air alone will not cause them sleepless nights. A claim for loss etc will make them stop though and contemplate their next move.

 

Remember this is just my humble opine nothing more.

Good luck Spider_Kel!

 

Hip_Hop

[Sza15521]

Good advice hip hop

[christiansasha]

Hi there... I am in the same situation, cccollections have took my works van and all plant inside. I was one of the stupid ones that took a loan out with them for £900.00, I paid £1400 and they want £2856.00 because of some missed payments. I have tried every option and everytime I hit a brick wall. No one wants to know. They have stole my vehicle and all my belongings. I have now signed on, about to lose my rented apartment, I am so depressed I dont know if I can go on anymore with this company cccollections laughing at my misfortune. THERE IS NO HELP AT ALL.

[Hip_Hop]

Hi there... I am in the same situation, cccollections have took my works van and all plant inside. I was one of the stupid ones that took a loan out with them for £900.00, I paid £1400 and they want £2856.00 because of some missed payments. I have tried every option and everytime I hit a brick wall. No one wants to know. They have stole my vehicle and all my belongings. I have now signed on, about to lose my rented apartment, I am so depressed I dont know if I can go on anymore with this company cccollections laughing at my misfortune. THERE IS NO HELP AT ALL.

 

Hi Christiansasha,

 

Welcome to the CAG.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your plight.

 

The advice you will find in this forum will provide guidance and assistance. Obviously every situation is individual, but the only common thread is that many have travelled this road, so you are not alone in your circumstances. Others can and will help where possible.

 

In the first instance, read everything on the forum you can. I know there is a lot but it will help you to know your options.

 

Secondly, post a new thread as you have added to an existing one so it may be overseen as a consequence.A new posting on a new thread will get more attention.

 

Thirdly without giving away personal identifying details, please give the forum more information. Without it none us will know the true situation and the options open to you.

 

The advice given above to Spider_Kel would be the same for you as you want to stop them selling the vehicle and losing your equipment.

 

Post all the details i.e where was vehicle when it was possessed Private or public land?? Is there a registered Bill of Sale if so can you post it on here (with Personal details deleted). How many missed payments etc How long ago was it taken?

 

Get your letters off pronto if it was very recent as I have advised Spider_Kel.

 

Lastly you have options, you just don't know what they are but you have asked in the right forum. Just give as much information as possible so that others can help. Remember time is of the essence but you are not alone.

 

Hip_Hop

[seekeroftruthandjustice]

The garage that I purchased the vehicle from have gone bankrupt so I have no way to take any action against them for selling me the vehicle.

 

Spider - this is the crux.

 

"Hip hop" is talking impractical and ill informed rubbish as usual.

 

Get some proper advice from Trading Standards, much better than ill-informed online nonsense

[Hip_Hop]

The garage that I purchased the vehicle from have gone bankrupt so I have no way to take any action against them for selling me the vehicle.

 

Spider - this is the crux.

 

"Hip hop" is talking impractical and ill informed rubbish as usual.

 

Get some proper advice from Trading Standards, much better than ill-informed online nonsense

Spider's car is possessed around the 18th March and you come along nearly two months later and state that I am "talking impractical and ill informed rubbish as usual."???

 

Chances are as Spider_Kel has posted no further updates in April or May, that his car has probably already been auctioned/sold? (I hope it hasn't and he was able to stop it, but the portents are not good?)

 

Any cagger is to be applauded for positively contributing to these threads (in good faith), with help and/or guidance. But it is simply not on to make personal unsavoury comments regarding another Cagger's integrity, intellect, period.

 

Your offering some 2 months later with "get some proper advice from trading standards" when Spider_Kel was looking for advice on how to stop his car from being sold, is hardly high up on the scales of practicable advice at this late stage, was it?

 

As someone who has facilitated the same return sought by Spider_Kel and others, that of a vehicle possessed using a registered Bill of Sale, I would suggest, most would concur that relaying that same advice in an urgent and timely fashion back in March, was a good thing for Spider_Kel to be made aware of?

 

By all means Seeker, feel free to challenge mine or any advice posted, and do give reasons why that advice may be ill conceived or in fact plain wrong. But when a Cagger informs another Cagger in good faith on a self help forum, especially those in desperate need of urgent direction, on how to get their vehicle back, you simply are not free to make Personal remarks about that Cagger regardless, or in fact any personal remarks personally directed at another Cagger for their contribution. Far better to reflect on the opinion or advice given without the personal jibe or even better, why not proffer advice of your own?

You appear to advise people on a self help forum, to seek help offline elsewhere. This means that their experiences can't be shared. Great.....on a self help forum?? This is even strange as you have been a member of this forum since 2009 but generally appear only to critique other Caggers, but don't generally post an independent opinion of your own of how to proceed outside of simply suggesting they seek advice externally on a self help forum...Interesting.

When you did give advice recently, you couldn't resist commenting on how grammatically wrong another Cagger's petition was and demeaned both their and your contribution by doing so, it simply wasn't necessary.

 

Just a note, the moderators of this forum didn't feel it was necessary to deride that Cagger's efforts when they included a link to that very same petition in their last newsletter. Unlike you,they did this without a patronising comment to boot? But you felt uniquely placed to deride that cagger's efforts nevertheless? Shame on you seekeroftruthandjustice, more so if you don't use better judgement now and remove that offending post forthwith!

 

Most on here, myself included, offer our time freely. All advice requires those who wish to use it, to do so after due diligence and applying common sense before taking any action, but it is for those looking for options in very distressing times when cars/bikes are possessed that this advice is aimed at.

Urgent remedial action may not always necessarily be as easily available to some as by popping in to a local Trading Standards Office to get advice.

Equally, most are in difficult circumstances already and simply do not have recourse to the funds required to finance initial legal representation in the first place which is why this forum is so pertinent.

 

I was fortunate and secured my car back and got compensation to boot. If my advice aids another person to get their car/bike back than I for one am chuffed to bits for them.

My battles with LogBook are truly over but I will never forget the pain and anquish suffered as a consequence. That, SeekerofTruthandjustice, is the only reasons why I contribute where I can. Hopefully, to good affect.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Hip_Hop

[stu007]

Hi

 

I would have to Agree with Hip-Hops advice.

 

Now just a question on the repo of your vehicle did you have any personal belongings in that vehicle at the time and if so have you been given the opportunity to retrieve your personal belongings?

 

(Just remember because of this situation yes they are entitled to the vehicle but not your personal belongings)

 

You would really need legal advice on this as your only recourse for the vehicle repo would actually be against the person who sold you the vehicle.

 

Did you pay by cash or by credit card? If it was credit card try to do a chargeback.

Edited May 6, 2012 by stu007

[dx100uk]

also think that if the vehicle was on private property i'e' your drive, then the repro man acted unlawfully.

 

if it was on the road then sadly they can.

 

dx