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    • Spoke to my SIL a short while ago Andy and he had the following to say.....     No, he had left their employment by this time, in fact he left January of this year.     August 2013 up until January 2020     Yes, in fact he had a staff MORE card.     He laughed and said "Hell Yes" This even extended to the pubs deputy manageress whom he described as the worst offender and knew that my SIL was doing it as well as other staff members.   There is a story here....   He told me that after he had left, the company fraud guys came in to do an audit with her unofficially being the main target. He has an idea that she may well have been caught with her hand in the till and so she sang like a canary to save her own arse.
    • this is what shell have just sent me in email, confirming mistakes were made it the final response / deadlock letter, they are only telling me this now, 6 months after the deadlock letter was sent to me and long after court action started   please is the actual deadlock letter binding, or can they just noll and void it like this?   Thank you for taking the time to speak with me this evening regarding your account. As agreed, I am emailing you with the details of what was discussed during our phone call so you have a copy in writing. I advised that you previously had an account with Shell Energy (formerly First Utility) for property  and this has an outstanding debit balance of £187.24. However, due to the age of the account and when the invoice was produced on this account, this balance is being cleared. This balance will be cleared within 10 working days and the account will be closed at a zero balance. In regards to account  I advised that back billing credit of £630.45 that was applied in April 2020 was applied in error and was later withdrawn. I explained that the reason it was applied in error is because the back billing period this amount was calculated for, is the same period that the back billing was previously calculated for and a credit applied to the account in February 2017, with the amount of £1192.32 being applied to the energy account. I advised that at the time the deadlock letter was written, the information within this letter was accurate based on the account at that point. After receiving the deadlock letter, you then escalated your case to the Ombudsman. It was at this point, an agent investigated your case and realised that the back billing credit of £630.45 was applied in error. This was addressed within the Ombudsman's findings in writing and they confirmed that the £630.45 was an error and it is correct in being removed, leaving the account balance at £644.48 which is valid and liable to be paid. I appreciate that you have advised the Ombudsman case is null and void as you did not accept their decision and you are right in saying that the actual final decision that they issued was non-binding upon Shell Energy. However, this does not change the outcome of their findings or the fact that the back billing credit of £630.45 was not due to the account. You queried if our call was recorded as you would need it for a judge, to which I confirmed it was recorded. If you want me to raise a SAR for a copy of this call recording, please do not hesitate to reply directly to this email and let me know and I can arrange this for you. I advised that as your case has now been escalated to Shakespeare, legal fees have now been incurred. I advised of the breakdown of these fees: Legal representative cost £70 , Court fee £60 and interest £146.06. I also confirmed that these legal fees were on top of the account debit balance, resulting in an overall balance of £920.54. As discussed, due to the case now being with Shakespeare, I am unable to offer any settlement figure internally. However, I can arrange for Shakespeare to call you directly to discuss your account and options available. You queried if they would be able offer/discuss a settlement figure/payment plan, to which I confirmed that I could not comment on this as I do not know their process, however they will be able to discuss the options in more detail with you directly. As agreed, I will arrange for Shakespeare to call you tomorrow; Friday 27th November 2020. If they are unable to get hold of you, they should be able to leave a voicemail for you. During our call, you also queried who would appear in court to represent Shell, whether it would be a member of staff directly from Shell or whether it would be a representative from Shakespeare on our behalf. I have gone away and spoken to our legal team who have confirmed that it would be Shakespeare who would lead with a representative on behalf of Shell. I hope the information in this email clarifies our position. As advised within our phone call, I am genuinely sorry for the shortfalls you have experienced and I fully appreciate the frustration this has caused. As above, if you would like to request a copy of our call recoding from today, please not hesitate to let me know and I can raise a SAR for this. You can reply directly to this email or you can call on 0330 094 9158. Our lines are open Monday to Friday, 9:00am to 6:00pm. Please note that my working days are Wednesday to Friday each week. Yours sincerely,  
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Hi,

 

I hold a gold card on South West Trains which I currently pay £4,224 a year for. One day around 6 weeks ago I forgot my wallet and didn't realise until I was on the train as there are no barriers at my station and it was around 6.30am (still slightly sleepy).

 

The guard was quite friendly and issued me with a penalty fare but said this would be wiped if i went into the station I kindly thanked the guard and went on with my journey (sleeping).

 

I completely forgot about this until I received a letter stating I owe IRCAS £93, £63 for the journey and £30 in admin fees. What bothers me is I was sent no reminder of this ticket and would have therefore gone into the station or written them a letter to say I had a valid season ticket. It now states I am outside of the appeal time.

 

I just feel I pay a lot of money to South West Trains to be treated like this, Is there anything I can do?

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You must nicely ask South West Trains to remit the charge. Most (not all) of the time, these people try to be reasonable, and if you can demonstrate that you had paid for the journey in question, they're not going to look for an argument.

 

Good luck :-)

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Hi,

 

I hold a gold card on South West Trains which I currently pay £4,224 a year for. One day around 6 weeks ago I forgot my wallet and didn't realise until I was on the train as there are no barriers at my station and it was around 6.30am (still slightly sleepy).

 

The guard was quite friendly and issued me with a penalty fare but said this would be wiped if i went into the station I kindly thanked the guard and went on with my journey (sleeping).

 

I completely forgot about this until I received a letter stating I owe IRCAS £93, £63 for the journey and £30 in admin fees. What bothers me is I was sent no reminder of this ticket and would have therefore gone into the station or written them a letter to say I had a valid season ticket. It now states I am outside of the appeal time.

 

I just feel I pay a lot of money to South West Trains to be treated like this, Is there anything I can do?

 

Yes, it's perhaps unfortunate that it has got this fare, but as FxFiqXSKXMFF says, you can only ask them to remit the penalty.

 

Sadly, they don't have to agree, but I would hope they will be reasonable.

 

The reason they don't have to agree is because you would have been handed a printed penalty fare notice advising that you must respond within 21 days and it seems that you did not do so. No reminders are issued in these circumstances.

 

I would write an apologetic letter for forgetting to respond within the stipulated time and ask them to consider this was a one-off incident of forgetfulness in relation to your annual ticket.

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Why do you feel badly treated?

You forgot your ticket, then later you forgot to deal with the penalty notice by simply sending in a copy of your season ticket.

 

Why should they pay for your mistakes?

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Yes, it's perhaps unfortunate that it has got this fare, but as FxFiqXSKXMFF says, you can only ask them to remit the penalty.

 

Sadly, they don't have to agree, but I would hope they will be reasonable.

 

The reason they don't have to agree is because you would have been handed a printed penalty fare notice advising that you must respond within 21 days and it seems that you did not do so. No reminders are issued in these circumstances.

 

I would write an apologetic letter for forgetting to respond within the stipulated time and ask them to consider this was a one-off incident of forgetfulness in relation to your annual ticket.

 

Would there be any benefit in stressing that you did already have a valid ticket (albeit not with you), and as you hadn't responded in time, would they consider accepting the £30 (admin fee), as a measure of your contrition for your forgetfulness, and that you'd do your best to avoid similar happening again, and would they consider waiving the 'fare' portion of the charge?

 

Old-Codja, any views on which would more likely be accepted? A request to remit the whole lot? or payment of the admin fee?

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In practice they can insist on the fare because the Byelaw offence is 'Fail to show a valid ticket'. Not 'fail to hold' or 'fail to pay', but fail to show a valid ticket on demand.

 

Failure to pay or successfully appeal the notice means they could proceed to prosecution. The company will normally expect to recoup the fare and their admin costs because if they charge the strict liability offence it is relatively simple to prove and they will normally get their costs awarded too.

 

Although that is the case, I personally think it a bit harsh in the case of an annual season ticket holder, but at the end of the day it is your responsibility to show a valid ticket and your responsibility to answer the notice, no one else has failed to comply with the rules

 

I suggest asking them to waive the charge in this case, but if they refuse (which they are entitled to do) then offer the fare plus £10 as a contribution toward their costs.

 

Good luck

Edited by Old-CodJA
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Cant really add to what has been said, the PF system allows for instances of forgetting your season ticket (2 a year with most TOC's) but it is down to you to appeal the notice, why should the TOC bear the costs of having to chase you when at the end of the day you forgot to bring your ticket?

Views expressed in this forum by me are my own personal opinion and you take it on face value! I make any comments to the best of my knowledge but you take my advice at your own risk.

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