At last the Daily Mail has got the message

[osdset]

In the last few months of his life, Craig Monk attempted several overdoses and was described as 'vulnerable' by his family.

 

An accident a few years before had resulted in the partial amputation of his leg and he had suffered unnecessary, and anxiety-inducing, obstructions in receiving state assistance - even though his disability was clear for all see.

 

Over time he slipped further into poverty, the ends could no longer meet

 

 

 

Full story

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2117718/British-people-committing-suicide-escape-poverty-Is-State-wants.html#ixzz1plgD8i6b

[jadeybags]

Absolutely heartbreaking. When's it gonna end, & how far is it all going to go. I'm not even disabled...yet! (who knows what could happen in the future?) And I am quite worried about it all to be honest.

[RaeUK]

Thankyou, a good read. Didn't see it in the paper paper, so assume it was online only ...

[MegaCraggy]

the arrogance of this coalition government surpasses any before them including thatchers , what they are doing to peoples lives would have gone down well in nazi Germany. the lib dems are an utter disgrace for joining

hands with the conservatives , i hope they enjoy their time in power because after this, as a party they are finished, the sheer lies this government has told is beyond belief , they should all be[Removed inflammatory content], what they are doing to the NHS is awful, soup kitchens, people committing suicide, it's an out right attack on our basic human rights to a decent quality life, i hope people don't forget come the next election and get this government out.

[jadeybags]

the arrogance of this coalition government surpasses any before them including thatchers , what they are doing to peoples lives would have gone down well in nazi Germany. the lib dems are an utter disgrace for joining

hands with the conservatives , i hope they enjoy their time in power because after this, as a party they are finished, the sheer lies this government has told is beyond belief , they should all be[Removed inflammatory content], what they are doing to the NHS is awful, soup kitchens, people committing suicide, it's an out right attack on our basic human rights to a decent quality life, i hope people don't forget come the next election and get this government out.

 

I could be wrong, I am not a political person, but they couldn't really care less about votes for next time. They all know they'll only get one run in charge, they don't expect to be voted in next time. It's all about reaching the targets. In my job it's all about speed, although we don't get paid anymore the faster we go, it's not piece work. But human nature has us wanting to be the best/fastest, set ourselves targets, beat the set targets.

They are only in it to save/make as much money as they can whilst it's their job to do so. Doesn't matter who they step on & how they go about that to be quite honest?! Who can argue with the results whilst they are in power, after all? It's all very well not voting for these guys next time, but it won't change, whoever gets the job next time will do exactly the same things & so on & so forth, we really are on our own. And may the lord help us! ..

[count orlok]

Very interesting article

[MegaCraggy]

there use to be a time in this country where people use to fight for what they believed in, thatchers downfall was the poll tax and the riots it created, i lived through this era and have never forgot the misery this government caused the working classes , but this one wants to stamp all over anybody they perceive to be lower than them with their jackboots, labour is not perfect and there is some things i don't agree with, but the conservatives are about money and privatization and lining their pockets, they do not give a damn about the ordinary person.

they are causing thousands to lose their jobs, and then telling them to find a job when none exist, and treat them like scroungers, your NHS is about to be privatized , and it will, god help anyone who is poorly and has not got the means to pay, mark my words things are going to get much much worse, nobody except the rich will be left untouched by what this government is doing.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2110900/Suicide-training-Job-Centres-Cancer-patients-scrubbing-floors-Welcome-Cameron-s-Brave-New-World.html

[worried33]

They getting away with it as this time they have planned it better, they have been able to do it on the back of a recession which made people sick of labour and a massive media campaign to maniplulate peopel to think that nearly everyone on sickness benefits is frauding the system and that many on JSA are workshy. People dont realise until they find themselves on welfare how it is, they simply dont believe what the reality is.

 

eg. I tried to tell someone today that the job centre dont need to prove I got a letter, they only need to prove they had the right address, instead I have to (impossibly) prove I didnt get he letter, he simply refused to believe thats true and surely they need proof of delivery, but nope they dont.

 

The latest is now a further 10 billion pound cut announced in the budget as apparently welfare is a waste of cash. Presumably this funds the large corporation tax cuts and the top rate tax cut. Whilst the new high speed rail line to birmingham thats massively overpriced will make a few people rich as well. Of course the NHS privatisation, the 2nd big killer from this government.

 

Even if they not reelected they know full well the changes they made will stick, its unlikely a labour government will reverse all this.

 

The daily mail blogs that support welfare never seem to make the printed paper, it remains very anti welfare.

[numbers666]

Devils Advocate - Where DO YOU want to see the MONEY coming from ???? Answers on a Postcard Please to THE TREASURY c/o HM GOVERNMENT.

 

PERSONALLY - This Country is BANKRUPT - MORE MORALLY than FISCAL I would argue...

 

Changing Leadership ? How would it help ? Increased Debt ? Decreased Productivity ? None of the Above ?

 

Conversation on 81 bus last night, 5.30pm , two 20ish year olds

 

'Alright mate wot you doing this weekend ? ' ' Just got me crisis loan - gonna get bladdered ' 'Ive got nowt - spunked my giro on tuesday - 'nother 10 till i sign on'

 

TAKE THE CASH OUT OF THE JSA SYSTEM - ESSENTIALS ONLY

 

WELFARE for those in genuine need YES ABSOLUTELY - bend over backwards to help....

 

WORKSHY / BLAGGERS / CANT BE BOTHERED - STARVE

 

N

[sadone]

*sigh* Move along folks, nothing to see here.....

[jadeybags]

Numbers666 has a point, it's not actually the government that's caused all the problems with welfare in the first place, it's those chavs on the number 81 bus. Plus some...

Another of the problems is the fact people get on their high horse & think that's aimed at ALL benefit claimants. Until it's accepted that people took/take the rise, not everyone on benefits, but a huge amount, it'll always be unfair.

[Nystagmite]

Of course, this is nothing at all to do with the millionaires claiming child benefit which they claim they "need" to fund their child's trust fund...

[sadone]

but a huge amount,

 

What? Care to back that up with some figures then?

[oldgirl]

Very interesting article but months old, from last year in fact.

Edited March 24, 2012 by oldgirl
Missed word

[Nystagmite]

Numbers666 has a point, it's not actually the government that's caused all the problems with welfare in the first place, it's those chavs on the number 81 bus. Plus some...

 

which is the fault of the government. If a system can be exploited, it will be.

[numbers666]

Its a major social issue that will be discussed far after i've gone, I can see all sides, but yes, whilst a system can be abused due to the form of the system, the system is wrong. That system was introduced by the government. The system MUST get the aid / support / help to those that need and are indeed entitled to it in a short timescale BUT it must also wittle out those that abuse it or basically take the ****.

 

Agreed millionaires DONT need CB, there should be an upper limit of net income to which payment is not made. It should however also not be paid to those that have never worked or contributed and have multiple children, in other words, a system needs to be in place where it is not benefical to have more children for the sake of higher benefits, this is a point that personally gets me. I would love to start a family, we cannot afford to, so why should MY taxation be put toward those that rely on benefits and bear more children without contributing back ?

 

I dont wish to sound harsh / unsocial / selfish but the system rewards those who dont contribute but takes more from those that do.

 

Years ago, if you had children, you struggled, but the kids turned out alright ( i am one of them, being a 70's child to a single mother - frowned upon)

 

My mother bless her worked 4 part time jobs cleaning offices, rented a two bed council flat in the eastend of worthing, she made sure i never went without. She did. She recently told me she would go without food for days between pay, so that i would be able to eat. Maybe there was less help or it was SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE to be on benefits back then ?

 

I just hear more and more, see more and more, and wonder how all this happened, how did we get to this point, in this country, where pride seems to vanish year on year, the rich get richer, the poor and needy get poorer, the feckless get fatter, and the average worker bends over and takes it for the benefit of all.

 

N

[Nystagmite]

Why should the children suffer? That's the problem if you limit benefits. Of course, if someone has a lot of money, they shouldn't get money for having children.

 

There wasn't much less help in the 70s - instead of tax credits, you had tax allowances and if you were on out of work benefits, you were given extra money for your child/ren. There was also some form of help with mortgage interest. (I don't know anything about that - but have heard of it)

[numbers666]

Why should the children suffer? That's the problem if you limit benefits.

 

I know !!! Thats why there is no happy middle ground! This is this country's catch 22 and perhaps the biggest challenge

it will face in its history.

 

Damned if and damned if not....

 

N

[sadone]

Figures for fraud...

 

 

Oh now there's a surprise. Benefit fraud is tiny in comparison to Tax fraud.

 

I just hear more and more, see more and more, and wonder how all this happened, how did we get to this point, in this country, where pride seems to vanish year on year, the rich get richer, the poor and needy get poorer, the feckless get fatter, and the average worker bends over and takes it for the benefit of all.

 

It was called the Banks. I'm sure people would work hard If there were any damn jobs going out there that were actually above minimum wage and above 16 hours a week.

[numbers666]

Thanks for the fraud figures - TJN is this quoting global or UK ?

 

http://www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-benefit-fraud/index.html

 

The difference for me, is:

 

tax avoidance / fraud (money not paid in taxation) this has not been passed to the revenue, whilst benefit fraud, is taken from the pot available to distribute from welfare, so to me is the more serious. It is a theft from the public, whilst (and i do not support it) tax avoidance schemes are not, as the statutes are within law to enable.

 

N

 

'just because you can doesnt mean you should milk the benefits '

[sadone]

Thanks for the fraud figures - TJN is this quoting global or UK ?

 

http://www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-benefit-fraud/index.html

 

The difference for me, is:

 

tax avoidance / fraud (money not paid in taxation) this has not been passed to the revenue, whilst benefit fraud, is taken from the pot available to distribute from welfare, so to me is the more serious. It is a theft from the public, whilst (and i do not support it) tax avoidance schemes are not, as the statutes are within law to enable.

 

N

 

'just because you can doesnt mean you should milk the benefits '

 

 

Good grief. Talk about splitting hairs. I bet the Tory spin doctors must flaming love you. Luckily the Inland Revenue aren't quite so lax in their outlook and see avoidance as theft in It's own way.

Edited March 24, 2012 by sadone

[Nystagmite]

Thanks for the fraud figures - TJN is this quoting global or UK ?

 

http://www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-benefit-fraud/index.html

 

The difference for me, is:

 

tax avoidance / fraud (money not paid in taxation) this has not been passed to the revenue, whilst benefit fraud, is taken from the pot available to distribute from welfare, so to me is the more serious. It is a theft from the public, whilst (and i do not support it) tax avoidance schemes are not, as the statutes are within law to enable.

 

N

 

'just because you can doesnt mean you should milk the benefits '

 

Why is tax avoidance any better? You're basically doing the same - taking money (well, avoiding giving money) to people in need.

[osdset]

Thanks for the fraud figures - TJN is this quoting global or UK ?

 

http://www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-benefit-fraud/index.html

 

The difference for me, is:

 

tax avoidance / fraud (money not paid in taxation) this has not been passed to the revenue, whilst benefit fraud, is taken from the pot available to distribute from welfare, so to me is the more serious. It is a theft from the public, whilst (and i do not support it) tax avoidance schemes are not, as the statutes are within law to enable.

 

N

 

'just because you can doesnt mean you should milk the benefits '

 

I think you are getting tax avoidance (legal) mixed up with tax evasion (illegal).

 

As for the 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' argument, this can be levied equally at those who claim benefits who don't need to, those who claim child benefit who don't need to, those who accept a freedom pass that don't need to, government ministers that fiddle expenses that don't need to...........the list goes on.

 

There will always be those that 'use' the system to their advantage whether it be JSA claimants, ESA claimants, businessmen, the wealthy, or politicians, but the perception seems to be the lower down the food chain a person is the more reprehensible the 'crime', I for one am sick to death of every person who has the misfortune to find themselves having to live on the breadline being labelled as ****, workshy, scroungers, ponces, cheats, liars and thieves, it tars every decent person out there with the same brush, that's what's morally bankrupt in this society.

[numbers666]

I am not doing the same personally (PAYE all the way).

 

Benefit fraud is illegal.

 

tax avoidance isnt (yet) but steps are being made albeit slowly to increase revenues and close the loopholes (good).

 

So hopefully all the holes will be closed, the benefit fraud will reduce to zero, all our taxes due to increase taxation due to closed avoidance schemes

will be reduced and somewhere over the rainbow cats and dogs will be loving each other.....

 

Been really nice to have a grown up discussion this afters..... appreciated..

 

n

[sadone]

I for one am sick to death of every person who has the misfortune to find themselves having to live on the breadline being labelled as ****, workshy, scroungers, ponces, cheats, liars and thieves, it tars every decent person out there with the same brush, that's what's morally bankrupt in this society.

 

Dear god THIS!! I'm so sick of this damn government trying their best to spread inaccurate propaganda and out and out lies to suit their own twisted needs. Luckily and may I say finally more people are starting to get wise to their spin doctoring and question their figures.

Edited March 24, 2012 by sadone