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    • ok well next time never use email esp when entering into what seems like pointless letter tennis on your behalf.?when you had no real need to reply to them in any manner or form.   it only encourages them you are a mug and gives them a free way to intimidate and harass you by email.   get some kind of records from saas/slc on what they believe is your current status as they do still do the Adminmost of these loans .      
    • ignore ...yes its not a letter of claim from a solicitor with their client being the Uni. until/if you get one of those pop back here.   no-one can add anything to any debt ...so can't increase it.   nothing to do with 'credit' but yes ofcourse you can request and they will have to produce all paperwork inc how they dealt with your dispute if the time comes and they move to court.   redwood or harwood are good names to put in our search top right in the red banner.        
    • Someone that specialises on the subject might be a better way to put it. 
    • Vauxhall's parent company has previously said its fate depends on the government's commitment to the car industry. View the full article
    • Apologies I hadn't seen that uploads need to be in PDF.   I have received the attached letter from STA which I assume is a standard letter as I've never spoken to them on the phone. I'm not sure what they mean by 're-commence recovery action'? Do I just continue to ignore them?   I have been in contact with the Uni who insist I need to pay the fees as I left the course after the first three weeks. They have not provided any evidence/documents that I signed an agreement to pay the fees or that I acknowledged that fees would be due if the course was left early. They referred me to their website which undoubtedly has changed since I was there.    I appreciate I shouldn't reply to STA however I'm not sure how to proceed with this overall.   I've read the claim form page and I'm not clear if I can request a copy of a credit agreement from the Uni as I'm not sure if its standard for a University to have required a credit agreement to be signed?    I'm not really clear what happens next and at what point I need to act. I've read about lots of different cases (fee related and non fee related) but can't find information on a case that is similar to mine. Do I wait until the Uni begins a formal action? I am concerned as I don't want the amount to increase from the already significant amount they are demanding.     Many thanks for any help you can offer.  staletter.pdf
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies

Do you have charges going back more than 6 years?


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Right, here's my tuppence worth on the statute of limitations.

 

I had an account with Lloyds from 1996 to 2001. I have requested a full disclosure. When I receive that, I will claim back from the current date to the point which would take me up to the 6 year limitation, that should be uncontested.

 

I will then attempt a further claim for the remainder without mentioning the statute of limitations. I would expect the bank to defend this using

Cave v Robinson Jarvis & Rolf [2002] UKHL 18, [2002] 2 WLR 1107 the gist of which is:

 

"If the claimant can show that the defendant knew he was committing a breach of duty, or intended to commit the breach of duty - I can discern no difference between the two formulations; each would constitute, in my opinion, a deliberate commission of the breach"

 

I suspect this would suceed, as we cannot prove that they deliberatly knew they were being unlawful. Unfortunatly ignorance of the law is allowed in the statute of limitations, just because they should have known isn't good enough.

 

What I would hope to rely on instead is a similar case

Sheldon v R H M Outhwaite (Underwriting Agencies) Ltd [1996] 1 AC 102

 

"concealment occurring one month or even one day, after the accrual would afford the plaintiff no protection at all. Perhaps a more cogent argument against the construction is that if it is correct even a concealment taking place more than six years after accrual of the cause of action would bring section 32(1) into play. But that is not a realistic objection, since it is not conceivable that a potential defendant would set out to conceal facts relevant to a cause of action when more than six years had elapsed since its accrual." Yet it is that inconceivable event which has occurred in this case; Cobert set out to conceal facts long after the time when it believed the German limitation period had elapsed."

 

Now here's the interesting bit. We're all telling them they're unlawful, applying these charges, going against the duty of care they owe us as our fiduciary and that they've been deliberatly concealing the facts by charging us and sending out the letters, but what are they still doing? Has any bank actually admitted fault yet or is it more a case of refunding claims as a goodwill gesture. :cool:

 

That's my thoughts anyway. Dave, perhaps you could ask closey to get her boyfriend (the barrister) to see how valid my argument is?

 

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Well put.

 

On the first scenario you have to consider the standard of proof. All that you have to establish is that the bank probably did know. - more than 51%.

 

For instance, if it can be shown that the bank was arguing all the time that the charges were intended to cover their administrative costs then if you can convince the judge that this was clearly untrue then this would be enough in my view to persuade a judge that they did know and that they were concealing the cause of action.

 

On the second point I don't think that there is any problem. It is clear that the banks are still concealing. in fact their is no difference in their position at any point in the last 25 yrs at least

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Not sure what you have in mind, but keep us posted. Good luck.:-)

 

Have a look in the Nat West forum and the thread entitled "Nat West Offer Received and Rejected".

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Questions:

 

If a court was faced with deciding whether a charge was a penalty and that charge arose more than six years ago, which issue would they consider first- the Limitation Act or the contract term?

 

If someone brought an action for charges covering a period of more than six years, is there any way that the bank could only defend the Limitation Act aspect of the claim?

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They can admit part of the claim and defend the rest.

Alan, Derby, UK.

 

 

 

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From the guidance on replying to a county court claim:

 

If you admit only part of the claim, complete Form

N9A and Form N9B (see ‘Disputing the Claim’ overleaf)

and send them to the court within 14 days. The claimant

will decide whether to accept your part admission.

If it is accepted, the claimant may request the court to

enter judgment against you and the court will send you an

order to pay. If your part admission is not accepted, the

case will proceed as a defended claim.

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Excellent!

Alan, Derby, UK.

 

 

 

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Sorry, but I cannot deal with your case by PM - please ask questions in your own thread. If you do not get a reply within 48 hours send a PM, with a link to the relevant thread, to any Site Team Member.

 

DO NOT SEND QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR CLAIM TO ADMIN, or our WEBMASTER - YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A REPLY.

 

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Hmmm, question here.

 

If we lodge a claim in the small claims court and win setting aside the statute of limitations, it will almost certainly be appealed.

 

Now if that ruling is set aside in a higher court, would we be liable for costs even though the original claim was under £5000?

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

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I used to have an account with Abbey (in fact I think I may still have an account with them with £50 in it, but have no idea of the account number - a long story). Due to my then-partner's ability to spend everything we earned before it hit our accounts, I was hit with huge fees every month.

 

Now, I changed bank account in 1999, so I know the charges are outside the statute of limitations, but was reading somewhere on the site that there may be a way around that.

 

Is it worth me paying for a DPA request, or am I likely to be told to sod off when I try and claim fees back because they were levied more than 6 years ago?

 

Edited to add that this account started out as my personal account, but was later turned into a joint account. Will they require signatures of both parties? I have no idea how to contact my ex and would not wish too. Anyway, when they decided to come after us for the debt, it was me that paid it all - they made one attempt at contacting him and decided to write him off and came after me for the lot.

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If its a joint account it only requires one party to ask for copy statements so you can ask for statements all the way through the time you had the account.

 

Basically for them to send you copy statements (if they still have this information!) you're going to need to send then £10 fee with your DPA request. I suppose as the statute of limitations is yet to be tested in regard to bank charges its unsure what the outcome of a small claims case against them would be, so you would be risking the DPA fee, plus any court fees.

It depends how many charges you are looking to claim back - i think it may cost the bank more money to defend it than it would take just to pay you. Then again I doubt the banks would be happy if it were to become common knowledge that people could claim back as far as they liked without challenge from the banks.

 

Also another note, in 1999 bank charges were nowhere near the level they are now. But they WERE still unlawful!

(Yes I work for a bank but am here to help! Please be nice to me! :))

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A question on joint and single accounts. My wife had her own account with Abbey for over 15 years, then we made it joint about 2 years ago. If we want to start claiming for anything over the period before I joined the account would it all need to be done by my wife herself, or could I still do it all in my name?

 

Thanks,

 

Neil.

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A difficult one to call. At first I thought your wife would need to claim for anything back further than the two years it was joint. But the more I think about it the fact that it's now joint allows you to ask for statements as far back as possible so you could imply that you could make a claim.

 

Hypothetical Situation:

What if your wife asked to be removed from the account completely and you agreed? (note: i'm not suggesting you do this, just going off on a tangent that's all! :-o ) The account number would still be the same but it would now be in your name only. Could you then still sucessfully claim back charges from when you were not even listed on the account?

I'd say probably not but any legal eagles out there want to comment?

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Hmmm, question here.

 

If we lodge a claim in the small claims court and win setting aside the statute of limitations, it will almost certainly be appealed.

 

Now if that ruling is set aside in a higher court, would we be liable for costs even though the original claim was under £5000?

 

 

Anyone?? :???:

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


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barclays: just recieved statements today, they total £1200 from june 1999, can i go back and claim that far, or only to apr 2000, any help woild be apreciated

unpaid dd: £20 in 1999 and £25 in 2002

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A difficult one to call. At first I thought your wife would need to claim for anything back further than the two years it was joint. But the more I think about it the fact that it's now joint allows you to ask for statements as far back as possible so you could imply that you could make a claim.

Appreciate your thoughts. Once I've settled with HSBC I'll start with Abbey :)

 

Neil.

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Appreciate your thoughts. Once I've settled with HSBC I'll start with Abbey :)

 

Neil.

I'll be doing the same, but rather I'll be hitting HSBC twice. This will have to be estimated, as I have already requested a DPA + 6 years history, to be told it is no longer held...should be brilliant fun :rolleyes:

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All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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barclays: just recieved statements today, they total £1200 from june 1999, can i go back and claim that far, or only to apr 2000, any help woild be apreciated

unpaid dd: £20 in 1999 and £25 in 2002

 

You can calim what you want. It is up to them to raise the issue of limitation and it is up to you whether to settle for the 6 years or to go for the rest.

You couild decide to go for the 6 and then try for the charges byond 6 as a separate and subsequent claim. ^ yrs is just about certain. Pre-6 is experimental.

 

however, I can tell that there one user who has succeeded in getting a defulat judgment for claims well beyond 6 years - even though the bank and their lawyers were well aware of the claim.

They even referred to the limitation period in their correpsondence and then on the day, didn't defend.

We are now waiting to see if they will apply for a setaside.

Watch this space. I can't say more at present.

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You can calim what you want. It is up to them to raise the issue of limitation and it is up to you whether to settle for the 6 years or to go for the rest.

You couild decide to go for the 6 and then try for the charges byond 6 as a separate and subsequent claim. ^ yrs is just about certain. Pre-6 is experimental.

 

however, I can tell that there one user who has succeeded in getting a defulat judgment for claims well beyond 6 years - even though the bank and their lawyers were well aware of the claim.

They even referred to the limitation period in their correpsondence and then on the day, didn't defend.

We are now waiting to see if they will apply for a setaside.

Watch this space. I can't say more at present.

 

have drafted a prelimenary letter going all the way back to 1999 with out any dates, only mentioning the account is now closed, leaving it up to them to realise the limitations, if they raise the subject then i will be re-evaluating the situation in my lba.

we will have to wait and see

TOTALLY debt free as of 2007, Fantastic,

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I have recieved today a letter for an old account closed in 2003 with £124 worth of charges on it, after reading this disscussion I phoned the Halifax and asked for a full disclosure ( wonder why they want to take my £10 now) they say they can only go back 6 years as thats all thats required by law all data before that is destroyed so I asked for my original contract as well, will keep you posted as to what happens BTW I had to hold on for about 10 minutes because the phones were busy ...........I cant think why LOL :eek:

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest BlueRuby

Well, I've got ALL my statements from RBS right back to when they were Williams & Glyn! So once my current claim against them is settled, I wouldn't mind trying my luck a bit further. Just looking through the 3 or 4 months of 1999 I have to hand, I've found over £100 of charges.

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  • 2 weeks later...

closed my account in 98 with rbs asked for statements from 98 till when i opend my account, just received them but only from june 96 looks like they keep up to 10 years worth of info. 1800 in charges over the 2 years, 25 for unpaid direct debit 15 referal fee i was only earning 5 pound per hour at the time 150 pounds in charges in 1week.what b------s.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Being a rather sad person :) I have kept every statment ever received from my building society account since it was opened in 1997. My wife has had to apologise now after readingt that we might be getting a pile of cash back now because of it ;):D

 

After some lurking I have recently put a claim in for all the charges dating back to 2000 which amount to about £1300. I was vbery dissappointed that I would not be able to claim the other £1700 that I was charged between 97 and 2000. (The interest on that if they let it go to court is almost another £1k)

 

If however there seems to be a chink of light regarding trying for these older amounts then please let me know. My LBA is due to go out Monday next week so I cannot change my claimed amount now but i'd be very interested in going back for another bite afterwards :D

 

Cheers, Shanks

Prelim sent May '06

LBA sent June '06

Fob off now rec'd to the prelim

Copy of fob off now rec'd as response to LBA!

Full repayment of all charges since 1997 now received.

Account Closed

Donation made :)

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