£130 installation fee, but no need for new line!

[TheV5]

Hi all,

I have a small problem with BT.

Just over 7 months ago we moved into a newhouse (rented). I needed to change mydetails with BT who said they could keep my number as I was staying in the samevillage. However they said that I wouldhave to pay £130 for a line to be installed. They arranged for an engineer to come out the following week. This engineer did not turn up! The next engineer turned up without anappointment, but spoke to the guys next door who said the house already has a phoneline! I have received bills for theprevious tenant, so I plugged my BT home hub in and hey presto, I have broadband! The phone line is live although there is afault on it. So a line is definitely here.

After 3 or 4 weeks I suddenly have nobroadband or phone line. I call BT who tellsme everything is done and the account is running and deny there is aproblem. After a large number of phonecalls to BT, I am told that the line needs to be installed! Two engineers turn up without appointmentswhilst I am not at home. After 4 monthsof going to and fro, an engineer comes out and looks at the set up and saysthere is nothing wrong with my phone line. He went off to the box and reported a fault between the exchange and thebox and it was down to BT to sort this. It took another month and another visit from an engineer who couldn’twork out why he was sent out as the fault lied at BT’s end. I had to stay in for this engineer as BTinsisted it was a fault at my end. I amself employed and have had 3 days off work waiting to have a phone lineinstalled (which was already there) and to have a non-existent fault repaired.

So after 5 months of phone calls, losingmoney from not working and general incompetence, BT repair their fault and Ihave Broadband and a Phone Line. Butthey still had the audacity to charge me the £130 installation fee, whilst atthe same time offering to waiver the fee on their website! I have written to them, but they are assumingno responsibility and state they had to install a line and I had a fault with the wiring in the house! Not a good installation that they insited they needed to do then!

Does anybody have any ideas of what I cando next? If a line had to be installed,then fine I would pay up, but after 5 months of being mucked around and thework never being undertaken as it was not needed annoys me somewhat.

Many thanks.

[locutus]

OK, you have a phoneline but BT cannot find it on their systems... pick up the handset, dial 150 and see who answers (as that will be the provider for that line) IF it is BT, let them know your account number and see if they can marry up the details there?

 

Another route would be to email the CEO [email protected]

 

Let us know what works for you

[goodwill]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2007/nov/10/moneysupplement.internetphonesbroadband

BT gets its lines crossed with a fee for all

Home movers must pay £125, even if it is already a BT line.

10 November 2007

 

People moving home are being charged a £125 reconnection fee by BT - even if the previous owner was a customer of the telecom giant. Those who call BT to complain have been left waiting on hold for hours.

 

Two weeks ago, Guardian Money told how BT was penalising people moving into a new home where the previous occupant had switched their landline to a rival supplier.

 

Now it appears the former monopoly provider has been taking advantage of consumer confusion, and its dominant position, by applying the same charge randomly to thousands of customers moving house.

 

The £125 fee, which, some might say, makes a mockery of Ofcom's attempts to bring down the cost of phone and broadband services, came about because it seems no one at the regulator considered what would what happen to "movers" under its new regime.

 

It does not help that the BT department responsible for connecting new customers appears to be in chaos. People are complaining it is impossible to contact - and those that do get through are often given contradictory information.

 

Some customers told Guardian Money they have spent more than 10 hours on the phone trying to resolve the problem, while others complain the £125 fee was "absurd" and "exorbitant".

 

Meanwhile, engineers are not turning up to appointments. In 2005, Ofcom insisted that BT create a separate company (now called Openreach) to manage the engineers who connect homes to the exchange. The split was intended to give all the telecoms companies equal access to the exchange network, to stimulate competition.

 

However, one of the unintended consequences of the decision appears to be much higher reconnection charges when a customer moves house.

 

BT's residential arm is allowed to charge the £125 fee if the previous occupier switched their landline to a rival supplier, through what is known as local loop unbundling. It appears to have plucked this unregulated figure out of the air, as it pays Openreach considerably less for the switch.

 

The problem is occurring when someone informs their telephone provider they are moving and that they want to terminate their contract.

 

After extensive questioning this week, BT revealed that the imposition of the charge largely depends on whether the house is near a busy exchange, where demand for lines is high. In that case, lines freed up are being quickly offered for re-use. In quiet areas, they can sit undisturbed for up to five years.

 

New occupiers are automatically charged the £125 fee, regardless of who used to supply the phone service. However, BT said this week that the charge should not be payable if the previous occupier was with BT. This has been refuted by readers' experiences.

 

Police officer Fred Trott contacted Money after reading our original article. He said he and his wife had been charged £125 when they moved into their home in Haslemere, Surrey.

 

The previous owner had been with OneTel, but had agreed to switch their service back to BT before they moved out. The Trotts moved in but faced an endless battle to make BT see this - its staff insisted the £125 fee was payable.

 

The pair, loyal BT customers for many years, say they have spent more than 10 hours on the phone to various BT departments trying to get the charge repaid - but to no avail.

 

A spokesman for BT says the current position regarding the £125 fee is "not ideal" and that it is looking at how it can be changed. "Where a working line exists, our intention is that reconnection should be free - but a charge of £125 applies where we have to involve an engineer.

 

"Where a customer is returning to join BT from a local loop unbundled competitor, our systems default to charging £125. We do intend to change this as soon as possible. It is one of a number of complex changes arising from BT Retail's adoption of a new IT system to comply with its commitment to the regulator, Ofcom."

 

It also confirmed that it has now refunded Mr Trott's £125 charge.

 

Ofcom says it is aware of the situation and that it is working with the Office of the Telecoms Adjudicator (OTA) to rectify this problem. "The matter should be resolved by next spring," says a spokeswoman. "It is important that customers are confident in the switching process and it is essential that there are no obstacles in the way. We are working via the OTA and industry to have all telecoms providers on the new system by spring 2008."

Confusion around this charge has been ongoing for several years. It appears from what I am reading, BT have their default set to bill and leave it up to the customer to notice whether the bill is correct.

 

back on topic

OK, you have a phoneline but BT cannot find it on their systems... pick up the handset, dial 150 and see who answers (as that will be the provider for that line) IF it is BT, let them know your account number and see if they can marry up the details there?

 

Another route would be to email the CEO [email protected]

 

Let us know what works for you

Edited March 18, 2012 by goodwill

[TheV5]

I now have a working phoneline and broadband from BT. But it took 5 months to sort and I was told they needed to install a new phoneline. However, the engineer told me there was a fault at the exchange and a line is already in existence. BT were adamant that a new line needed to be installed. But as said above, for a few weeks I had working Broadband with a BT Homehub and that was without any work being done to my house or the exchange. The way I see it, there was a fault at BT's end and they are trying to charge me and seem to try and confuse me with mixed information.

[stu007]

Hi

 

I had a similar problem some yrs ago with BT doing the exact same thing will send out engineer as move to new house was previously BT as well and the charge £130 seems very standard.

 

The classic was the engineer came out looked stated there is a line fitted walked 10metres to exchange opened it switched a button closed it came back and tested the line all working OK. This took a total of 10minutes for a cost of £130.

 

So i started to question BT and complained and complained specifically about the £130 cost for 10 minutes work and demanded a full cost breakdown of these charges as it seemed they were charging an extortionate amount for an engineer callout so to speak.

 

They didnt take to kindly to my request for a full breakdown and in the end never actually got that breakdown but guess what amazingly was refunded 95% of the cost now read into that what you will.

 

Also as they are saying the fault is at your end give them all your dates of calls etc and request the diagnostic reports for all these periods.

[rdm2006]

Background info....

 

1. There will always be issues with "newbuilds" and existing lines. BT work in conjunction with builders to pre-install lines at new developments (although they may not be connected at BT's end until they are required). This will be a full connection charge (£130 as stated above).

 

2. If the first person to live there does not have a landline (either at all, from someone else or has a mobile instead) then the status will remain the same (as 1 above) until someone has a BT line there.

 

3. Show-homes can be especially confusing as builders often have the line installed to the garage (which they use as an office) so the line to the house will not have been connected. So again a full connection will be charged.

 

4. There may have been an original BT line which was connected but has either not been used for 6 years or been taken on by a "Third Party Supplier" (TPS) (i.e. sky do this - they rent the line from BT and charge you line rental direct). If this lasts for 6 years or more then the details of that line "drop off" BT's records. In this case they will quote the full charge but reduce it to a reconnection fee when everything has been confirmed by the engineer.

 

5. There is a line and there has been a recent BT user (This is BT's definition of an existing line) so this will be just a reconnection fee (if they still charge one).

 

P.S. Renumbering of plots on new developments is always a good way to cause utter confusion to everyone too (it happens more than you think, they can be numbered North to South till someone [like the council, for example] say they want it to be numbered south to north etc).

 

Its getting close to 10 years since I worked for them so things may have changed but the above is how it was then lol (full connection was £125 then so it hasn't increased much)

 

Now to the poster ...... (V5)

 

You have bills for the previous occupant - send in a copy with your complaint as this proves that the line existed, (excluding 3 above) if they still charge full connection and refuse to accept this, then complain to ofcom with a copy of that bill.

 

 

 

pick up the handset, dial 150 and see who answers (as that will be the provider for that line)

 

 

Unless things have changed, doing this from a TPS - will just go through to BT as it is still part of the BT network (even though it is not provided directly from BT)

 

I hope this helps all.

 

EDIT - This is not a defence of BT, it is just how things are (or were) but I wonder who will be first to shoot the messenger lol

Edited March 19, 2012 by rdm2006

[locutus]

When I worked for BT, it was around the time that LLU's were just setting up. So, gonna give some background to the obstacles in place.

 

1st there are probably 4 companies involved, none of which can provide any information about the current line if it is in someone else's name due to data protection laws.

 

BT Retail This is the company that customers take service with for BT phone line and broadband.

LLU A LLU (Local Loop Unbundled) is a company like Sky or TalkTalk who have their own servers in the telephone exchange.

BT Wholesale this is the company that orders services on the line for both of the above.

BT Openreach this is the company that maintains the network and does any work on the line.

 

This was all down to an agreement between the monopolies and mergers commission that BT needed to open their lines to an open playing field with other providers, so BT was split into smaller companies.

 

I was informed by Oftel (thats how long ago it was) that 150 will always get through to who the equipment plugs in to in the exchange, although they could've been confusing the different lines between BT line and Virgin Media lines.

 

If the line is rented from BT Wholesale by a LLU, BT cannot provide service on this line. Data protection laws really get in the way here as they cannot even tell you what company owns the line, (as that is sensitive to whoever is renting the line) so the line cannot be canceled, to free it up for BT to provide service on it, and even if it is canceled BT cannot always see this line as available for months.

 

It really is a quagmire as goodwill has shown in his post. The quickest way through this minefield is with customer service that know their way around, and BT do have good CS in their CEOs office.

 

Easiest solution IMHO is to email [email protected]

[rdm2006]

I worked on 150 and we were constantly getting calls from Third Party Suppliers customers who had dialled 150. Like i say this could be different now though.

 

as far as I remember LLU (Local loop unbundling) was the process which allowed Third Party Suppliers and Broadband providers access to the exchanges to provide their service (I was there when this was just starting too and it would not surprise me to find out that the same term meant different things depending which department you worked for and like locutus says these departments later became Wholesale, Retail and Openreach).

the fourth company was probably BTconnect (although I cant remember the function of that one)

 

"Where a customer is returning to join BT from a local loop unbundled competitor, our systems default to charging £125. We do intend to change this as soon as possible. It is one of a number of complex changes arising from BT Retail's adoption of a new IT system to comply with its commitment to the regulator, Ofcom."

 

What a load of rubbish .... had it kept its old system - the engineer would amend the charges when he completed his job off the system which worked very well apart from the odd one who forgot to do it..

 

I was informed by Oftel (thats how long ago it was) that 150 will always get through to who the equipment plugs in to in the exchange, although they could've been confusing the different lines between BT line and Virgin Media lines.

 

Oh the good old days of oftel .

 

 

Like locutus says email ian livingston if that fails then go the ofcom route

 

 

It is strange though oftel used to say that BT's IT system was the best, but now ofcom says it has to be industry standard... is this progress???

Edited March 20, 2012 by rdm2006

[TheV5]

Thanks for all the replies, info and advice. I will follow it up with an email to the CEO. As I said above I had broadband working here via BT for about a month in the middle of all this. The engineer told me that the line had come undone and was in contact with another line! I have also been told that a BT Homehub will only work with broadband provided via BT and not a TPS (Not sure if this is true or not). In any eventuality, it took them 5 months to sort it out, which even as a good will gesture should negate the £130 fee.

 

As for a new build, the house is about 15 - 20 years old and had a BT line installed. BT are trying to charge me for a full line installation as the guys next door said he was trying to work out how to get a line in from the box to the house i.e. digging up the driveway etc!!!