Accused of Fraud by Barclays & Natwest!!

[rickydg]

Hi All,

 

Been reading many of the posts on here, hoping to get some tips for our situation, but not really finding anything. I think our case may be unique!

 

Please read this post with an open mind, I know many people may judge us before considering the facts and beleive we were wrong from the outset.

 

We (Me & my Wife) have banked with Barclays for abour 3 years. We have 1 current account and 2 business accounts with them. On Tuesday 6th March, my wife tried to log on to our online banking, but was greeted by an error code and given a number to call. Upon calling the number and greeted by an Indian call handler, she was put through to a different dept. She was told that "Cautions" had been applied to all our cards, and all our accounts were under investigation as their was "Stolen Money" in them.

 

My wife had a care business where she provided care for people in their own homes, and had a client who got very close to her. She lived alone and had no children or family. After working for her for about a year, she started paying lump sums of cash in to our personal account from her Natwest account. When my wife questioned her about it, she said it was back pay for her benefit, and if she didn't pay it to my wife she would get her benefit cut, which she relied on quite heavily for care. The payments continued quite regularly for atleast 8 months, of varying amounts, from £200 up to over £1000. The lady always gave "reasons" to my wife for making the payments, and started saying that she couldn't enjoy it, so she wanted us to have it, and our son to enjoy it. We have a message that was sent through Facebook, stating she knew we had the money and she wanted us to have it, and didn't want it back. My wife also had lots of text messages but dropped her phone down the toilet a couple of months ago, so their gone...

 

I didn't discover these payments to our account until about Sept/Oct last year. I added them up and they came to a fairly large sum, so I immediately told my wife to get her to stop making the payments, or we would have to tell someone about it.

 

Now, I know many of you will be thinking, why did we accept the money in the first place etc, etc. I know that it was wrong to accept this money, and so does my wife, but at the time my wife wasn't aware of the amount that was going in, and just thought it was bits and bobs. If I could turn back the clock, I would have put a stop to it right away, however we didn't. The money has been spent, not on anything grand, just on "stuff".

 

Going back to now, it emerged that the "stolen money" had come from Natwest, and they were conducting "their own investigation", and Barclays said they were notified by them. I have called several times, and been in branch to find out nothing. Finally today I find that they are closing all our accounts as "Natwest have confirmed that a fruad has been committed".

 

As you can imagine, we are terrified that we are going to have a knock at the door any second from the fraud squad. We also found out today that a parachute account that we had with HSBC is also being closed. We don't know the reasons for this, the people in the branch didn't know why, and the people on the phone just said "something to do with your credit file.". I have checked both files, and nothing different from before is showing, and nothing under CIFAS.

 

My wife called the Police today to see if there is a case open, or if they wanted to speak to us, but the call handler didn't seem overly fussed and just said they couldn't discuss it with us, even if there was a pending case!

 

We are due to move house on 2nd April and need access to a bank for all that. I have applied for a COOP account today which has been referred, so have gone to a bank that doesn't do credit checks, just so I can get paid.

 

Don't know whether we should seek legal advise, hope that that is the end of it, or just wait for the police to knock on the door.

 

Can Natwest actually say that a fraud has been commited, no one has asked us for our side of the story! What happened to innocent until proven guilty???

Are the Barclays and HSBC account closures linked?

Should I expect my credit cards to be cancelled too?

Will this appear on my credit file? (There's nothing there as of today)

 

Really don't know where to go next...

[slick132]

Hi Ricky and welcome to CAG

 

Unless you have anything in writing, or a recording of a conversation, that confirms the allegation of fraud, you have very little on which to base a complaint with either Barclays or NatWest.

 

1. Is your wife still working for the lady and has she said anything about the money that's been paid to you.

 

2. How did she get your bank details enabling her to pay money into your a/c.

 

3. Did the lady herself go to a bank to pay the cash into your a/c.

 

I'll flag this for the attention of other site team members to see what they think.

 

[rickydg]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

1. My wife no longer works for her, she stopped working for her in November, however paymetns continued until early January. The lady has said in a facebook message dated mid January that she doesn't want the money back. (However my wife has been paying £50 per week through her door since November, as she now realises that it was all wrong.). We don't know what the lady has said to the bank or the Police as she no longer works for her and hasn't spoke to her since that Facebook message. The Police call handler today advised my wife to contact the woman, which we are reluctant to do, as this could go very wrong if the Police are called then.

 

2. Before my wife had a business account set up, she used to use our personal account to receive payments.

 

3. Sometimes yes, other times Internet banking. We don't know how all of them were made as there were so many. My wife says she may have made some of the payments, but only at the lady's request, and NOT all of them. (I know this will prompt questions as to why my wife would do this, I'm not sure she really knows! My wife was convinced that as the lady kept giving reasons, that she wasn't doing anything wrong.)

 

Now we have no access to our Barclays accounts, we can't print any statements with transaction details, which doesn't really help!

 

Would Natwest have reviewed their CCTV for any transactions that took place in the branch?

 

Thanks for any advice, it's much appreciated.

[slick132]

Hi Ricky,

 

Do you not have monthly statements showing the payments into your account(s). If not, you can send a SAR to Barclays which should get you all transaction details for the last 6 years.

 

See here for the SAR letter which you need to send to Barclays Head Office with the £10 fee - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?417-A-Subject-Access-Request-for

 

Adapt the letter to suit your needs.

 

I can't surmise on what NatWest may have done to investigate. But they would have access to CCTV recordings, I'm sure so they be able to see the lady making the payments herself.

 

1. Has the lady intimated to YW at any stage that she was unhappy about having made any of the payments.

 

2. It would also be useful to know why YW stopped working for the lady in Nov'r 2011.

 

3. Re the payments made between Nov'r 2011 and Jan 2012 after YW stopped working for the lady, if they were made by the lady herself do you know if they were internet transfers or cash paid into her branch to be credited to YW.

 

4. Do you think the lady would be seen by others as being competent and capable of making independent rational decisions.

 

Re the "allegation of fraud" that you were told about - it would be helpful if this is disclosed when the bank responds to your SAR.

 

I suggest you take a SCREEN SHOT of the Facebook entry, or copy it, if you think this may be helpful to you.

 

Until any proper allegation or investigation is made, it will be difficult for you to prove innocence. The banks will probably blank you saying they do not have to give you reasons for their decisions.

 

You need to keep a close check on your credit files and watch out for anything showing on the CIFAS system.

 

You may also want to seek legal advice. This matter could affect your intended house move if you are relying on any mortgage or bank loan.

[rickydg]

Hi,

 

We don't have regular monthly statements, so will have to go diwn the SAR route.

 

In response to your questions;

 

1. The lady never stated at any point that she was unhappy with the payments the she or my wife had made on her behalf.

 

2. My wife stopped working for her as she wasa "poached" by another care agency. However, she continued with a few more payments after this time.

 

3. We don't know how they were made, we guess internet.

 

4. The lady is of sound mind, and lives alone. She manages all her finances herself, however she is disabled so requires help to get around. We are worried that this will count against us.

 

Today we received letters in the post from both Barclays and HSBC stating that accounts are to be closed. HSBC have stated that after conducting routine "security checks" that they are to close our account. The letter included a leaflet from CIFAS, and was signed by a manager in their fraud dept.

 

I can't understand how banks can conclude that a fraud has taken place, when we haven't even been able to answer our case. How long will CIFAS information remain on file for, and what will it effect? We have credit cards and loans, 2 for cars, and we're now worried they will come and take the cars.

 

Any help, greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi Ricky,

 

Have a look and see if you think BCOB could be of assistance to you - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=76&a=220

 

Get the SAR sent to Barclays now.

 

One would hope the principal of "Innocent until proven guilty" would apply but that's not always the case.

 

If I had been told by HSBC that they are closing my a/c's, I would write to them seeking an explanation and refer to the BCOB Reg'ns.

[rickydg]

Thanks for your help.

 

We're still waiting to see how far this will spread at the moment. Had to go in to HSBC today and draw out the last of my money that went in, felt like a criminal, just like the other times i've been in! Cashier still couldn't understand why account had been marked for closure...

 

We are due to move at the beginning of april, so we will wait until then before we start sending off SAR requests etc to ensure everything comes back to the right address.

 

My wife went to see the lady yesterday, she tried to act as if nothing had happened and denied any knowledge of "stolen money" or informing her bank. She stated once again that she didn't want the money back, and it was ours to keep. My wife had the feeling that she was lying about not knowing anything. Unfortunately, my wife wasn't able to record the conversation, so we still have nothing in writing other than the facebook message.

 

Read the letters from the bankls again, to see if there's anything there that could help. In the Barclay's letter they state to make alternative arrangements for any incoming funds, as once the account is closed the cannot guarantee any monies paid in would be returned successfully. Surely this is fraud in itself! Utterly p****d off with the whole thing now, seems like banks are alot like polititions, they make their own laws, and are pretty untouchable.

 

Will come back when I have more info to share.

[slick132]

Hi Ricky,

 

Yes, wait until the house move is complete before doing anything more.

 

The chance to prove your innocence may only come when someone confirms an allegation of fraud.

 

You should also be prepared for the possibility that YW could be dropped by the care agency if they get wind of all this.