PCN Number? - Private Parking Company

[YamiPrem]

Hiya, I received this PCN from a private company (or so I imagine). At top it reads, "Managed on behalf of Topher Limited, Company Reg No. 6126075". Does that make Topher Ltd. the issuer? Anyway, it's £30 if I pay within 14 days (got it two days ago) which I have no problem paying. (Third time in the last two years now! First time from a private company.) The reason for issue is ticked under 'Other' with 'LEFT ESTATE' as the reason. Yeah, I like to use this one car park as my local parking spot... Anyway, I go to pay for it online via 'paymypcn.net', but I don't know what the PCN Number is supposed to be. On the notice, at the bottom, it reads: Notice No: [LETTER] [4-DIGIT-NUMBER] (I left out the actual digits, for safety.) I bash that in but it apparently is incorrect. The example given on the website is also a 11-digit number, which I cannot find anywhere on the notice. Help? I've also read people just avoid these private PCNs, which I can do, but I don't think any future hassle is worth the £30, lol. Thanks for reading! EDIT: No idea why it appears all in one paragraph, sorry about that. I did type it out with line breaks.

Edited March 12, 2012 by YamiPrem

[crem]

It is NOT a PCN (Penalty Charge NOtice) as issued by councils. It is a trumped up invoice by a Private Parking Company, dressed up to look like a PCN (they even call it a Parking Charge NOtice so that they can abbrieviate it to the same PCN letters).

 

Why are you even attempting to pay it? Read around the forum to find out what you should be doing with their charge (which is absolutely NOTHING)

[YamiPrem]

Before we go on, are you 100% sure it's a private company from the info I have given you. It does read (in red block of white text) Parking Charge Notice, so I believe you are correct. If I do nothing, won't they just harass me? I'll read the threads now.

[ManxRed]

Does it mention the legislation it is being issued under at the top (for example the Road Traffic Act)? My guess is no. The fact that it isn't called a Penalty Charge Notice is a bit of a giveaway that its a private invoice, not a real parking ticket. You should ignore this ticket, and ignore all the follow up threatening letters no matter how scary. The facts are that they are entitled to their actual losses only, which is a damn sight less than £30. Do not contact them, ignore all correspondence from them.

[YamiPrem]

Just says "The vehicle shown below has contravened the terms and conditions of use for this car park and therefore is liable to a parking charge of £65.00". Then in small print the reduced amount if paid within a fortnight. I don't mind ignoring, as long as I don't need to go to court (even if I can't lose). That's when it gets 'too much hassle' in my book, which I rather avoid. Thanks. EDIT: I don't read these signs, so not sure what the sign board reads either. :3

[sailor sam]

Just says "The vehicle shown below has contravened the terms and conditions of use for this car park and therefore is liable to a parking charge of £65.00&amp". Then in small print the reduced amount if paid within a fortnight. I don't mind ignoring, as long as I don't need to go to court (even if I can't lose). That's when it gets 'too much hassle' in my book, which I rather avoid. Thanks. EDIT: I don't read these signs, so not sure what the sign board reads either. :3

 

At the end of the day it's your choice whether you pay or not. You came here to ask our advice and we have given it. A private company cannot recover a fine or penalty through the courts because they have no legal authority to issue either. They have issued what we call a speculative invoice or what they call a Parking Charge Notice. What they can claim is losses or damages they have incurred by you parking there. For example, if you parked there for 2 hours but only paid for one, they could take you to court for the amount of money that extra hour would of earned them. If however the parking is free, then they can recover zero. If they are issuing a 'charge' because you have 'contravened' their terms and conditions, then they are, in effect, issuing a penalty. Also any action they take must be against the person who 'entered' into their 'contract' (i.e. the driver). You as the RK will be the one who will get all the threat-o-grams but that doesn't necessarily mean you were the driver. You have no legal obligation what so ever to furnish them with any information which identifies the driver.

 

The threat-o-grams will threaten all sorts including the POSSIBILITY of court action.

[YamiPrem]

Thanks. Yeah, I've read all that. But I still believe it's not worth it at the moment. I have way too many things going on in life right now for me to deal with this too. I'm just going to pay up. Maybe next time, I'll play around with this mob, just for laughs. I didn't come here for advice... had that settled in mind. I actually came to ask where the hell I can find this PCN Number for their website. But I guess I will have to phone them instead. Thanking you again.

[ManxRed]

You haven't got time to ignore something so you pay up? Can I have your car reg? I might stick some meaningless paper on it myself!!

[Jamberson]

I've also read people just avoid these private PCNs, which I can do, but I don't think any future hassle is worth the £30, lol.

 

All you need to do is ignore the 5 or 6 letters you will get. Don't be frightened by them and don't reply to them. Just bin them. Nothing will happen to you.

 

If doing that's going to leave you £30 better off than if you pay, it has to be worth it. Or, if you like, send me £30 and I'll ignore them for you!

[YamiPrem]

You haven't got time to ignore something so you pay up? Can I have your car reg? I might stick some meaningless paper on it myself!!

 

lol, no.

[YamiPrem]

All you need to do is ignore the 5 or 6 letters you will get. Don't be frightened by them and don't reply to them. Just bin them. Nothing will happen to you.

 

If doing that's going to leave you £30 better off than if you pay, it has to be worth it. Or, if you like, send me £30 and I'll ignore them for you!

 

Isn't there some chance of me being called to court though? I think that's the main problem for me. Also, how do they 'stop'. I doubt they say 'Okay, we give up, you win, sir.' They just stop posting?

[ManxRed]

They just stop posting. They don't send the last 'OK, you win' letter, that would blow their cover.

[YamiPrem]

They just stop posting. They don't send the last 'OK, you win' letter, that would blow their cover.

 

Gotcha, can you comment on the court issue then? There is some chance of me being called up, isn't there?

[Jamberson]

Take you to court for what? Not giving them money you never owed them in the first place? See ManxRed's post number 8. If he sticks a bill on your car for £10,000 for breaking one of his rules which he made up, do you think he could sue you too?

[YamiPrem]

Take you to court for what? Not giving them money you never owed them in the first place? See ManxRed's post number 8. If he sticks a bill on your car for £10,000 for breaking one of his rules which he made up, do you think he could sue you too?

 

When you guys say I never 'owed them', what do you mean, exactly? If the board reads that I will be charged, isn't that enough for them to charge me? I'm assuming not. Then what is the purpose of them then? Just to scare folks and see if they pay up? The car park is free, but I did leave the area for a couple of hours btw. so I do feel I abused their 'offer'. So, I gather there will be no hearing in courts then? If that is 99% guaranteed, I am fine to ignore it. Danke!

[sailor sam]

When you guys say I never 'owed them', what do you mean, exactly? If the board reads that I will be charged, isn't that enough for them to charge me? I'm assuming not. Then what is the purpose of them then? Just to scare folks and see if they pay up? The car park is free, but I did leave the area for a couple of hours btw. so I do feel I abused their 'offer'. So, I gather there will be no hearing in courts then? If that is 99% guaranteed, I am fine to ignore it. Danke!

 

They can sue you for losses or damages but not for a penalty. If the carpaking was free, what were their losses?

[YamiPrem]

They can sue you for losses or damages but not for a penalty. If the carpaking was free, what were their losses?

 

I guess you are right. If they do somehow find out who the driver was, what then? Does it change anything? What if they call me, and ask for driver details? How do I decline to give it to them without sounding shady? When then 'debt collection' papers start coming in, do I just do the same, and ignore?

[DBC]

I guess you are right. If they do somehow find out who the driver was, what then? Does it change anything? What if they call me, and ask for driver details? How do I decline to give it to them without sounding shady? When then 'debt collection' papers start coming in, do I just do the same, and ignore?

 

You seem to be taking this company much too seriously. They are not the police or the council , but just a private company with no more right than you or me to demand such information off another person.

[YamiPrem]

You seem to be taking this company much too seriously. They are not the police or the council , but just a private company with no more right than you or me to demand such information off another person.

 

Okay, thanks. It's settled then, I shall ignore their letters! Another query, I see people suggest templates when appealing. When are these appeals viable? the people who are ignoring can't also be appealing, surely, so who benefit for appealing? Just curious.

[Michael Browne]

The template letters were formulated before it was realised that by far the best solution was simply to ignore everything, so by and large are now redundant.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

If you appeal, they won't uphold it, but will think you could be talked into coughing up money you don't need to pay them, because you've entered into correspondence. If this ever happens to me, I certainly won't be writing.

 

How are they going to find out who's the driver? All they can get is the name of the registered keeper from the DVLA. Unless you tell them of course, but I really hope you're not thinking of doing that.

 

My best, HB

[DBC]

The best advice is not to appeal. For a start it's not an independent process. It's done "in house" and so it's in the company's interest to refuse all "appeals", otherwise they never make any money. Secondly, once you start writing to them they think they have got a hooked fish and will only bombard you with even more stupid letters.

[Tony P]

Any 'appeal' shows them you are concerned. So might attract a few more letters than those who just ignore everything.

 

An 'appeal' might also reveal who was the driver or an address not held by DVLA.

Knowing the driver's identity changes little - their loss is the same.

It just removes one of the many difficulties they face.

 

There is no obligation for a Registered Keeper to reveal a Driver to anyone except to the Police and a Local Authority.

 

So they can do nothing. Just like we advise you to do!!!!

[YamiPrem]

Thanks all. I get the drift now. It's funny how we assume they hold the same power as the council do just because of their similar actions and approach. And what about the debt collectors (lol, what debt!?) letters, just ignore and burn as usual? Okay, why don't they ask the police for some assitance then? :o

[Jamberson]

When you guys say I never 'owed them', what do you mean, exactly? If the board reads that I will be charged, isn't that enough for them to charge me? I'm assuming not. Then what is the purpose of them then? Just to scare folks and see if they pay up? The car park is free, but I did leave the area for a couple of hours btw. so I do feel I abused their 'offer'. So, I gather there will be no hearing in courts then? If that is 99% guaranteed, I am fine to ignore it. Danke!

 

The idea of the notice board is that you read the terms and conditions and consent to them by parking. Thus, you have entered into a contract.

 

There are valid clauses in a contract, and there are invalid ones. For example, if it had a clause which said, "failure to display a ticket authorises us to shoot you" that would be invalid. Regardless of the contract, it would be against the law and the law takes precendence.

 

In this situation, it is against the law for any private person or company to issue penalty charges - which is just another word for fines. They have no right to do that, so that clause in the contract is invalid.

 

If you have genuinely breached contract, then their redress is to sue you for their financial losses resulting from the breach of contract - which, especially in a free car park, is nothing. They can sue you for nothing.

 

Hope that makes it clearer why you don't owe them, you never owed them, and they can't make you pay.