Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • maybne the courts are waking up to Simple Simon and his shenanigans, and dots are being joined?
    • In their draft application to the court they state that their Letter of Claim listed the proper three invoices.  Is this true, or are they lying?   As for replying to them, hang fire for the moment, see what people who have dealt with this sort of thing before have to say, there may be a way to oppose their application or at least make them pay a hefty sum to the court for granting it.
    • but the other debts are part of this big picture and its eventual solution a rough idea will help.   if if if they ever get another powerless repo/dca involved, they will tell you well in advance.   help us please
    • to do what they are powerless...   you like 10'00'000 of other s jump because a dca says this or that a DCA is not a bailiff and has zero legal powers on any debt no matter what its type.   another one of your issues is following stupid freeman of the land twaddle. very dangerous.don't   moorcroft dont by debts they only act for clients.   as long as you don't run from debt and insure the debt owners or 'the client' has from you a letter which states your correct and current address or you did so to the Original creditor before any sale or your haven't moved since taking 'the credit' out you are safe from backdoor CCJ's to an old address.   sit on your hands and see if the owner of the debt want to issue a letter of claim. if they do  you return here   A CCJ - which is the only tool they have - because just like us joe public, its the only thing we can legally do if we claim someone owes us money - they have no more powers that you or me
    • That is why I (specifically) said "the lender".
  • Our picks

    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies
    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

Dismissed for Gross Misconduct (theft) - Case for unfair dismissal?


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3236 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone,

 

I am asking on behalf of my partner, who was instantly dismissed for gross misconduct following a disciplinary hearing. She worked for a large company taking portraits in a studio for customers. The issues are quite wide ranging, so I will try and stick to the most pertinent for sake of brevity. She was never given an employee handbook or copy of contract. She worked for the company just over 2 years.

 

The gross misconduct consisted of putting images the customer had purchased from previous portrait sessions onto a CD, as well as the most recent. for a customer purchasing a CD. The employer claims that this amounts to theft, as the CD for each session should have been sold separately.

 

Some points in respect of this:

 

  • She felt she was putting a loyal repeat customer who had spent lots of money with them first. The company insists that when dealing with customers they should be super-sized, which is what she felt she was doing.
  • She was never given the same training others doing the job were. She had previously worked within another division of the company and been made redundant, and the training for that division consisted of 2 days at HQ, whereas those doing the job in the part of the company the new job was for received 2 weeks training at HQ.
  • The company has only been selling CD's a year and a half, and little if any training or guidance was offered on how they should be sold. CD's were not available at the time the customer purchased prints on at least one of the previous sessions.
  • The studio manager has also burned images, both purchased and not purchased (as prints), to disc for a number of customers previously. This would obviously be one's word against the other's. The manager burned them in the studio, and my partner sent it as an order to head office.
  • The company literature states "Get a CD of all your purchased images" and makes no reference to exclusions for pictures previously purchased.
  • Company policy is that pictures should be wiped from the system every 3 to 6 months. If policy were followed, the pictures would not have been on the system to put on the CD, or to make money from extra prints. The company claimed the theft consisted of loss of money, that could potentially have been earned from use of the images as print or CD.
  • Work conditions as they were she was thinking of quitting regardless, hence she made little effort to defend herself in the disciplinary. She was asked if she thought she was doing wrong and said yes. Area manager asked why she had not asked her if unsure. She answered truthfully, the idea had never crossed her mind. The mistake had been made on a week when she had returned from sickness absence of 2 weeks, and was trying to do her best by the company by returning while still ill due to staff shortages.
  • The Police have apparently not been contacted in respect of the "theft".

Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edited by leedsguy
Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello everyone,

 

I am asking on behalf of my partner, who was instantly dismissed for gross misconduct following a disciplinary hearing. She worked for a large company taking portraits in a studio for customers. The issues are quite wide ranging, so I will try and stick to the most pertinent for sake of brevity. She was never given an employee handbook or copy of contract. She worked for the company just over 2 years.

 

The gross misconduct consisted of putting images the customer had purchased from previous portrait sessions onto a CD, as well as the most recent. for a customer purchasing a CD. The employer claims that this amounts to theft, as the CD for each session should have been sold separately.

 

Some points in respect of this:

 

  • She felt she was putting a loyal repeat customer who had spent lots of money with them first. The company insists that when dealing with customers they should be super-sized, which is what she felt she was doing.
  • She was never given the same training others doing the job were. She had previously worked within another division of the company and been made redundant, and the training for that division consisted of 2 days at HQ, whereas those doing the job in the part of the company the new job was for received 2 weeks training at HQ.
  • The company has only been selling CD's a year and a half, and little if any training or guidance was offered on how they should be sold. CD's were not available at the time the customer purchased prints on at least one of the previous sessions.
  • The studio manager has also burned images, both purchased and not purchased (as prints), to disc for a number of customers previously. This would obviously be one's word against the other's. The manager burned them in the studio, and my partner sent it as an order to head office.
  • The company literature states "Get a CD of all your purchased images" and makes no reference to exclusions for pictures previously purchased.
  • Company policy is that pictures should be wiped from the system every 3 to 6 months. If policy were followed, the pictures would not have been on the system to put on the CD, or to make money from extra prints. The company claimed the theft consisted of loss of money, that could potentially have been earned from use of the images as print or CD.
  • Work conditions as they were she was thinking of quitting regardless, hence she made little effort to defend herself in the disciplinary. She was asked if she thought she was doing wrong and said yes. Area manager asked why she had not asked her if unsure. She answered truthfully, the idea had never crossed her mind. The mistake had been made on a week when she had returned from sickness absence of 2 weeks, and was trying to do her best by the company by returning while still ill due to staff shortages.
  • The Police have apparently not been contacted in respect of the "theft".

Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I cannot see how there can be any "theft" involved as all that the worker did was provide too many images to the customer. While the company could argue that the customer was undercharged,which caused them some financial loss, the worker did not profit by means of payment or a tip. Also she was serving a genuine customer and not giving freebees to a friend.

 

 

I think that she should appeal the dismissal and demand that the word "theft" or any similar wording implying "theft" be expunged from the records. This is a misleading and unfair appraisal of the error made.

 

Also, given the lack of training and instances of other workers/managers also giving too much value for money to customers, gross misconduct does not seem justified and neither does summary dismissal for a first offence. Did she have any other warnings on file or faced disciplinary action beforehand? I think the employer can take prior warnings into account when making the decision to dismiss.

 

I do not think it matters that she did not defend herself vigorously at the hearing as it seems that they were out to get her anyway. It is up to the employer to behanve in a fair and reasonable manner and, from what you have posted, it seems that this was a simple case of undercharging blown out of proportion.

 

I believe that she could make a claim for unfair dismissal but that she must complete the internal disciplinary process which means making an appeal. Was she informed that she could appeal and is she still within the time limit to do so? I would write a decent appeal putting in all the mitigating facts and pointing to any supporting evidence. I would do this even if the time limit for lodging an appeal is past as there is nothing to lose. A Tribunal can decrease your award if you do not complete the internal process but failure to do so does not totally obliterate your right to compensation.

 

A claim for unfair dismissal must be lodged not later than 3 months less 1 day from the date she was terminated. She could fill in the online claim form as it is free in the hope that the employer will pay her off rather than pay for a solicitor to fight the case. I get the impression that she did not like working their all that much so a compromise agreement might be the best solution all round.

Edited by Browncow
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

To get the best advice we would need to know the exact employers reason for Dismissal for Gross Misconduct which should be stated in thier letter to that employee.

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Link to post
Share on other sites
To get the best advice we would need to know the exact employers reason for Dismissal for Gross Misconduct which should be stated in thier letter to that employee.

As stated in first post. Employer considers adding images from previous sessions to a CD a customer purchased to be theft.

 

Did she have any other warnings on file or faced disciplinary action beforehand? I think the employer can take prior warnings into account when making the decision to dismiss.

No previous disciplinary action, although the one to which the CD issue relates they made a nice long list of things they thought she had done wrong - but the CD was the thing that resulted in the decision. As you say I think they had it in for her anyway. Thanks for your other points. Will discuss writing an appeal with her. I doubt they'd offer her her job back anyway. Appealing to a company which has made its decision seems a bit pointless, but if it will help a tribunal case...

 

The thing that gets me is at the disciplinary hearing the area manager, after calling head office and being told the only action was to dismiss her instantly, said they were parting on good terms, and she would give her a glowing reference. "Gross misconduct" is hardly "good terms". Certainly the Job Centre don't think it is anyway when it comes to JSA.

 

The store manager seemed somewhat unprofessional. Apparently they have been happy to divulge personal details of other employees to customers, and when calling in sick gave the unprofessional response along the lines of I don't want you here, don't care when you come in - and later moaning a holiday had to be cancelled, can't see partner who is abroad etc, due to my partner being off sick.

 

Another point is that the order was sent to head office on which she had put notes on what she had done, yet even after they found out about the supposed crime - someone else in the company happily burned the CD and returned it to the store to be passed on to the customer.

Edited by leedsguy
Link to post
Share on other sites
As stated in first post. Employer considers adding images from previous sessions to a CD a customer purchased to be theft.

 

 

No previous disciplinary action, although the one to which the CD issue relates they made a nice long list of things they thought she had done wrong - but the CD was the thing that resulted in the decision. As you say I think they had it in for her anyway. Thanks for your other points. Will discuss writing an appeal with her. I doubt they'd offer her her job back anyway. Appealing to a company which has made its decision seems a bit pointless, but if it will help a tribunal case...

 

The thing that gets me is at the disciplinary hearing the area manager, after calling head office and being told the only action was to dismiss her instantly, said they were parting on good terms, and she would give her a glowing reference. "Gross misconduct" is hardly "good terms". Certainly the Job Centre don't think it is anyway when it comes to JSA.

 

The store manager seemed somewhat unprofessional. Apparently they have been happy to divulge personal details of other employees to customers, and when calling in sick gave the unprofessional response along the lines of I don't want you here, don't care when you come in - and later moaning a holiday had to be cancelled, can't see partner who is abroad etc, due to my partner being off sick.

 

Another point is that the order was sent to head office on which she had put notes on what she had done, yet even after they found out about the supposed crime - someone else in the company happily burned the CD and returned it to the store to be passed on to the customer.

 

I think that "gross misconduct" on the reference is rough and "theft" in the disciplinary paperwork is outrageous. I think you could argue that this was not fair and reasonable but unduly harsh.

 

It is also a good point that there was not only lack of training but no system of checking and rectifying errors. The other worker who burned the images was probably just as confused about the policy as your girlfriend.

 

Write the appeal and fill in the ET1 as she has nothing to lose. The area manager seems like a bit of a s***head so he may well be scared by the prospect of going to court.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...