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Arrow/Carter claimform - Halifax Card Debt


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Hi,

I am new to this but have been reading lots of threads and have got so far but now need help. All other threads I have read are similar up until now.

I have first received a letter from BC solicitors stating that I had failed to make repayments to Arrow Global under an account number and they would issue litigation proceedings in 48hrs.

Two days later arrives a claim form from Northampton CCBC dated 9th Feb.

Claimant Arrow Global Limited Through Bryan Carter Solicitors.

P.O.C

The claimants claim is for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

The defendant agreed to pay monthly instalments under accounnt number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx but has failed to do so.

The claiment also claims interest thereon persuant to S.69 county court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to 0.00.

 

Not having any agreement with any of the above parties I searched on here and sent off a CPR 31.14 request by special delivery on 21st feb and filed an Acknowledgement of service to Northampton CC on 20th feb with notice of intent to defend all of this claim.

 

Today 28th Feb I received this from Bryan Carter solicitors

 

We write further to your request for disclosure under Part 31 of the civil procedure rules.

 

We confirm the claim was issued by the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre and the court's protocol was followed when issuing the Claiments Particulars of Claim. Practice Direction 7C point 1.4 (3A) eliminates the requirement to attach the documents to the Particulars of Claim when they are issued by this court.

We confirm that we have requested documentation from our client and hope to revert to you shortly, although this will not be within seven days. We do not accept your comments in relation to Civil Procedure Rules 27(2).

It was the original creditors policy, Halifax, to issue agreements on or around the date of contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreement, in this regard we ask you to refer to your own records. For the avoidance of doubt the Claiment does not consent to an extension to the deadline for filing the defence.

Yours Sincerely

Bryan Carter

 

I need help please as what to do next and what timescales I have. Thank You.

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Hi Welcome to Cag.

What is the original debt, and were

you sent a default notice by the creditor?

Have you had a notice of assignment from

either Arrow or the original creditor?

How old is the debt and have you checked

you credit reference files to check on this debt.

The answers will help us to advise.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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Hi Brigadier thanks for the reply.

I will try to answer your questions.

The original debt I believe to be a Halifax CC of between £9-10,00 which kept going up and down with different letters.

I have a default from June 2008.

The account was then passed through lots of different DCA's including Westcott,Scotcall,Nelson Guest,Credit Security Ltd and Fredricksons.

I have no notice of assignment from the Halifax but notice that the DCA's changed the client to Arrow Global at some point.

I do not have any agreement with Arrow Global and have never spoken or written to any of the DCA's at all. Last contact was made with the Halifax in 2008 and none since.

Not checked my credit file.

Also forgot to mention that the ccj is for £4999.00 +£165.00 = £5164.00

Hope this helps

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It was the original creditors policy, Halifax, to issue agreements on or around the date of contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreement, in this regard we ask you to refer to your own records. For the avoidance of doubt the Claiment does not consent to an extension to the deadline for filing the defence.

 

Shocking response imo.

in your own words "Not having any agreement with any of the above parties I searched on here and sent off a CPR 31.14 request"

Well how the dickens were you even meant to know what the claim was for from the poorly pleaded claim without them telling you and having told you what the claim was for there lies a duty to disclose throughout the proceedings.

 

You need to hit back hard at these fools, this response is unacceptable.

 

Personally I would apply to have them replead their claim and for them to meet the costs of your application.

This thread is a good place to start looking into this. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283443-Embarrassed-Defences-and-the-problems-with-them.&p=3192556&viewfull=1#post3192556

 

I'm a firm believer that you can only defend against what the claimant has pleaded, we've just seen Cabot spin on the spot and pretend the sum claimed is arrears not the full amount even though the amount is the same because its come to light the defendant has been served a patently defective default notice, don't let the same happen here.

 

If BC don't have the sense or the common decency to spell out what they're claiming for then force them to. It is to your advantage as the more specific they are the more likely you will find a defence to their claim.

 

I trust your CPR request asked for a copy of the agreement referenced by "The defendant agreed to pay monthly instalments under accounnt number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx but has failed" because you need to know if this is the halifax agreement or an imaginary one created by the DCA. :wink:

 

They are after all taking you to Court for breaking this "agreement".

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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Hi Jasper

thanks for the response,

I have looked at the link and the threads by Pt2537 and find it interesting but also confusing. Not wanting to copy and paste items I am really trying to understand my situation. In Layman terms i simply think,as you say, that I should be given a copy of the agreement at the beginning or how else can someone base a claim against you. I cannot defend what I can't see. In this regard I thought it would be a simple straight forward defence and that this DCA was trying it on with a non legal person. I now also realise that these are sneaky so and so's who push the legal boundries based on your own lack of knowledge.

I wonder if i extend the time will it allow them more time to fabricate something. I can see Pt2537's point on not entering a Embarrassed defence and wish to try and keep this as simple as possible. I think my time is running out and I am concerned that BC's will produce something in the final hour that I cannot defend. They should not have anything as I do not have any agreement with Arrow Global,but can they produce something themselves. I want to either have more time to force them legally into producing a document I can defend against or produce a defence based on not having seen any agreement.

Any help with this would be appreciated.

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Hi Frosty and welcome to Cag

 

In the event that they don't disclose (and they wont) and they wont agree to an extension ( as they have stated) I cant see any other alternative but to submit an holding defence.They will have to disclose at either AQ or Standard Disclosure but Im sure it wont go that far once a defence as been submitted.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hi Sinead

 

Big blue button at the bottom & Top of Legal forums index + Post New Thread. (left hand side)

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited by Andyorch

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Thanks for looking over this Andy.

I can see that Phaitun is having the same problem as me. As you say I can't see any point of extending the time and will look into the holding defence. I see you have drafted a defence for Phaitun, I guess we are just the same.

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Thanks for looking over this Andy.

I can see that Phaitun is having the same problem as me. As you say I can't see any point of extending the time and will look into the holding defence. I see you have drafted a defence for Phaitun, I guess we are just the same.

 

No problem Frosty, the defence I drafted for Phaitun is just an example of vagueness for your response, feel free to add to it or remove.

 

Andy

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  • 2 months later...

    I have moved my case on further and filed the defence below on 12th March 12.

     

    I, MY NAME am the Defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the Claim made by Arrow Global Limited. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

     

    2. The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the Defendant as the Claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the Courts attention to the following matters;

     

    a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to; the method the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim.

     

    b) A copy of the purported written agreement that the Claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

     

    c) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the Claim Form.

     

    3. It is denied that any debt is owed to the Claimant “Arrow Global Limited”. In their particulars of claim, the Claimant claims that “the defendant agreed to pay monthly installments”. It is denied that any agreement was ever in place between the claimant and myself. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of their claim by way of documentation.

     

    4. On receipt of the Claim Form I sent a CPR 31.14 request for a copy of the agreement and supporting documents which forms the basis of this claim - see document A

     

    5. On 29th Feb a letter received from the Claimant's solicitor advised " that they have "referred the matter to our client and will revert to you shortly". They also mention the original creditor being Halifax,having a possible agreement. Thus indicating they do not themselves have a credit agreement. See document B


      6. No response has been received to date. Without the information requested, I remain embarrassed and unable to submit a defence at this time.

       

      7. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof

       

      8. I respectfully request a stay in proceedings until such time as the Claimant complies with the requests outlined in paragraph 4 above or until the Court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised Defence and Counterclaim and will seek the Court’s permission to amend my statement of case accordingly.

       

      I have now received a letter from Arrow Global first is a notice of change of solicitor to say that they are now representing themselves and not using Bryan Carter anymore. They also add:

       

      Further to receipt of your defence dated 12/03/12, we confirm the following in relation to this matter.

      1. The outstanding balance relates to a halifax bank of scotland (HBOS) credit card, opened on 24/10/00 and defaulted 06/10/08.

       

      A copy of the original agreement is attached to this letter.

       

      The last payment you made towards the outstanding balance was on 08/08/08 in the sum of £50.

       

      Arrow Global Ltd purchased the debt from HBOS on 08/10/10 and we have been provided with the contractual name and address in relation to this debt.

       

      We trust this satisfies your request for further information and copy documentation in relation to this matter and look forward to receiving your payment proposals fourthwith.

       

      The document we have is a very badly scanned visa card application from 2000. It does have my details on there and is a halifax form.

       

      Does a Halifax Visa Application Form with a handwritten card number on it provide Arrow Global with an agreement for me to pay them?

       

      Please help as I now have the AQ and need to file a full defence.


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Hi Frostydog

 

Is it possible to scan in what you have received less any identifiable data ? Dont worry about the AQ just yet but when must you submit it by?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thats far too small Frosty can you upload it as a PDF?

 

Andy

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Ok Frosty

 

It is an application but I would say its either a second stage or a pre approved (hence your personal details being typed in).Its barley legible and unless there is an over leaf or reference to page 2 there are no perscribed information(that I can decipher)

 

the amount of credit

the credit period

the total amount payable

examples of the amount payable if the debt is repaid early

the interest rate

the annual percentage rate (APR)

any other fees or charges - eg for missing a payment

 

Any agreement that is not laid out in the perscribed manner CCA1974, enforcing a credit agreement will only be possible using a court order. Certain agreements that were made before 6 April 2007 may not be enforceable at all.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy

 

as you say there are no references to anything you mentioned. It is in fact an application to be accepted for a credit card. This should surely have been an agreement to be valid,also is this relevant to Arrow Global themselves, as I do not have any agreements with them. I must surely produce a full defence to send to the court based on this.

Regards

Frosty

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You don't need an agreement with Arrow as this one has been assigned.They simply take over from the original creditor.With regards to your defence what you have submitted is sufficent for now lets see if they proceed after AQ.

 

Andy

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Yes Andy I have written it in on an earlier thread. Not having any agreement from arrow meant I could not defend. I now have this application form to work with but nothing else.

 

Regards

Frosty

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Nudge me nearer the time for your AQ, lets submit it and see what reaction we get, I personally would not feel confident relying on that application if I were the Claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have today received a copy of their AQ from Arrow Global..

I have read through and noted the following points:

A) settlement they ticked yes to discussion before the hearing to settle the claim and for one months stay.

D) Case management information

they have put in the box of what amount of the claim is being in dispute as £10,203.80 when the court claim is for £4999.00 + costs of 80+85 = £5164.00

Witnesses- claiment

No experts

Nothing ticked in boxes for track

They have attached a fee for filing this AQ- box ticked

 

Do not understand how the amount in the AQ can be different to the actual initial claim and what they are paying a fee for and do I.

 

I have now also got to fill out the Aq, looks a bit complicated

Any chance of your thoughts Andy

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Hi frosty

 

Simply a case of their incompetence and what you will have to deal with if this proceeds.Have they completed the N150? N149 does not request a figure?

 

I assume you are completing the N149 on the figure you state above?

 

Here is an example you will have to edit to suit as obviously all AQ,s are unique.

 

 

 

The claim has been defended so it has been transferred to your local court.

 

This is where the AQ comes in. It's a bunch of questions the answers to which will help the court manage the case.

 

The AQ you have received can be completed by downloading Form N149 as a pdf and completing it in type, changing it around and only printing it when you're satisfied.

 

Here's what to say beginning first with the title and then on to Sections A, B etc in alphabetical order. You should also read the notes on page 4 and Form N512. Print this post off to help.

 

State:

 

The title

Your name

You're the Defendant

The name of the court

The claim number (found on the Claim Form you got)

The last date for filing (found on the paper AQ you were sent)

 

A

Tick 'Yes'

 

B

Tick 'No'

 

C

Tick 'Yes'

 

D

Answer 'One' ( you)

 

E

Tick 'No' and ignore the remainder of section E

 

F

If you are going to be unable to attend a hearing at any time between say 1 October and 31 January, tick 'Yes' and identify those dates in the box adjacent to 'Yourself', otherwise tick 'No'

 

G

Say 'The Particulars of Claim provided by the Claimant are inadequate in order to fully appreciate the case I have to meet, in particular the agreement relied upon, the date on which it was made, the terms thereof and whether regulated and if so by what statutory provision, the means by which it was terminated, the manner by which the claim is calculated, its alleged assignment and the Claimant's entitlement to interest. By a letter dated ( ) I asked the Claimant to provide proper particualrs of the claim. A copy of the letter is attached. I have received no answer to my letter.

 

I propose the following directions:

 

1 Unless the Claimant shall have by (date) filed and served upon the Defendant fully particularised Particulars of Claim comprising but not limited to particulars of the agreement relied upon, the date on which it was made, the terms thereof and whether regulated and if so by what statutory provision, the means by which it was terminated, the manner by which the claim is calculated, its alleged assignment and the Claimant's entitlement to interest, the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty without further order to apply to this court for judgment and for costs on the standard basis to be subject to detailed assessmwent proceedings if not agreed.

 

2 In the event of compliance with paragraph 1 of this order this case shall be allocated to the small claims track and there shall be a stay of proceedings until (date) to enable the parties to settle using the small claims mediation service'

 

H

Tick 'No'

 

I

Sign, date and fill in your address at which you want documents about the case to be delivered.

 

I would advocate downloading the form and completing on screen (more professional) then run 3 copies Court/Claimant/File ( Sign their copy uniquely)

 

There as been recent changes to the N149 recently so the above may be out of sync.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Ah OK you are just over the threshold, or are you!!!!! if you include the costs and legal fees (which they shouldn't). The amount in dispute is £4999.00. This is a SCT claim (Small Claims Track) and you should be completing the N149.You can still complete the N150 but you state this is SCT in which track.

 

 

 

ALLOCATION QUESTIONNAIRE

 

Have you sent a copy of this completed form to the other party Yes

 

A. SETTLEMENT

 

For All

 

1. Given that the rules require you to try to settle the claim before the hearing, do you want to attempt to settle at this stage?

 

Yes

 

 

B. LOCATON OF TRIAL

 

Is there any reason why your claim needs to be heard at a particular court? NO

 

C. PRE-ACTION PROTOCOLS

 

You are expected to comply with the relevant pre-action protocol.

 

Have you done so? No

 

If No, explain why?

 

This case is not covered by any approved protocol; I have tried to act reasonably in exchanging information and documents relevant to the claim but have had no response from the claimant in this regard.

 

 

 

D. CASE MANAGEMENT INFORMATION

 

What amount of the claim is in dispute? £4999.00

 

Applications

Have you made any application(s) in this claim? NO

 

Witnesses

 

Xx xxxxx All the facts in the case (you)

 

 

 

Experts No

 

Small Claims Track

 

If you have indicated a track which would not be the normal track for the claim, please give a brief reason for your choice:

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the SCT,The Claimant as included their Costs and Court Fee to exceed the threshold.It is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer.

 

 

 

E TRIAL OR FINAL HEARING

 

How long do you estimate the trial or final hearing will take? 2 Hours

 

Are there any days when you, an expert or an essential witness will not be able to attend court for the trial or hearing? YES/NO?

 

Xxxx xxxxx 1st – 14th October Inclusive.Example

 

F PROPOSED DIRECTIONS

 

Have you attached a list of the directions you think appropriate for the management of the claim? Yes

 

If Yes, have they been agreed with the other party? NO

 

G COSTS

 

Leave blank

 

H Fee (For the Claimant only)

 

I OTHER INFORMATION

 

Have you attached documents to this questionnaire? YES

 

Have you sent these documents to the other party YES

 

If Yes, when did they receive them? Same date as AQ completion

 

Do you intend to make any applications in the immediate future? Leave Blank

 

If Yes, what for?

 

 

 

In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim.

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a full and particularised defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the Small Claims Track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer.

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further.

 

___________________

 

DRAFT ORDER FOR DIRECTIONS

 

In the ************* county court

Claim number **********

 

 

Between

************* - Claimant

 

 

and

 

 

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

 

o Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon.

o Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,

o Document, contract or deed of assignment

o Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

o Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

 

o An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

Edit to suit.

 

Andy

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