Payday Overdraft Andrew hart Help Please :) - ***Won***

[lukiee11]

Basically taken £150 out with them 12/10

 

so far i have repaid £208.00

 

He has applied for a county court judgment off......£2583.41

 

 

I have lots of emails which can go against him with the oft guidelines and unfair relationships between lender and borrower

 

 

But can i fight it ... would a judge just say in was in the t/c and you agreed to this ?

 

Plus during the repayment plan i am pretty sure he never stooped the charges and interest ?

 

Im going to cab for legal advice and yeah .. not sure what else i can do ?

 

please help

 

 

Anyone else suffered problems .. Maybe more voices ..and statements heard in court (witness would help both cases )

[havinastella]

I'll PM Sillygirl to have a look in!

 

Jogs

[coledog]

Hi and welcome

 

Yes a stack of people having problems with this guy

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?332979-Hart-payday-overdraft&p=3738851#post3738851

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330538-Payday-Loan-Problem

 

Stand up to him, call his bluff and get legal help if necessary. Report to Consumer Direct for referral to Trading Standards and OFT. CAB may just cop out and tell you it is probably legal, they do that, but I can assure you it is NOT and you need legal advice. This man is a chancer.

 

You will get plenty of help here

[lukiee11]

Its just all these and ive made lots of compliants to oft and others but nothing seems to be done,

 

so will a judge be different or is it becasue he has a counsmer licence and a contract his untouchable ?

[lukiee11]

The only thing i can think off is a time order where a judge can change the repayble amount and change the intrest rate?

 

but this is still him winning

 

£150.00 loan

£208.00 paid back

£2583.41 Judgement

 

This is illegal

 

the only way getting though this is having the media on our side but they only take intrest when it suits them

[lukiee11]

From: Andrew Hart

Sent:

To:

Subject: Re: attachments of earnings order

 

And then what? Bailiffs at a cost of 250 plus their charge?

 

This is not great thinking.

 

Attachment of earnings at 275.00

 

Bankruptcy at 750

 

Do you think the company stop at a judgement and everyone goes on holiday.

 

Please do what you can to get that payment. It is the wisest move

 

For and on behalf of Wage Payments and Payday Loans Ltd

Andrew Hart

8 Queens Avenue,

Muswell Hill.

London.

N10 3NR

 

0208-883-9836

07710111108

 

Disclaimer:

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Wage Payment and Payday Loans Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Wage Payment and Payday Loans Limited family or companies unless otherwise specified stated. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender and then delete the message and any attachments from your computer. This email has been scanned for all known viruses, while the sender has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize risk, we cannot accept liability for damage which you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachments to this e-mail.

 

[coledog]

Has he actually issued a court claim? If so have have you acknowledged and said that you will defend this in total? Can you scan or type up the Particulars of Claim?

 

I would send him a CCA request plus £1 postal order to his office address

 

 

 

CCA Request

 

CCA letter to send with a £1 postal order by recorded delivery, do not sign. They have 12 plus 2 working days to reply. If nothing valid is received you can send a letter to put the account in dispute and this should stop them contacting you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter

 

Plus a CPR request as to take this to court he needs to justify his claim

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

Combined CPR 31.12 and CPR 16.4(2) Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court. I confirm having returned my Acknowledgement of Service form to the court indicating my intention to contest all of the proceedings.

 

Owing to the striking lack of particularity in your Particulars of Claim, I require the prompt disclosure by you pursuant to CPR 31.12 of each of the following documents, mention or reference to which would have been made had the Particulars of Claim contained the minimum of necessary particulars and complied generally with CPR PD 16.

 

1 the agreement giving rise to the obligation to (the OC) and for the credit advanced. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the deed or other instrument of assignment by which you / the Claimant acquired rights under the agreement disclosed by you under [1] above.

 

3 the default notice, the service of which was a condition precedent to the creation of the debt now sued upon by you pursuant to the assignment disclosed by you under [2] above.

 

Additionally and in relation to the interest claimed, pursuant to CPR 16.4(2)

 

4 Under CPR 16.4(2)(a)(i) please now state whether the claim to £Xxx.xx includes a claim for interest under the agreement disclosed under [1] above and if so,

 

5 Under CPR 16.4(2)(b) specify the amount of that interest, and

 

6 the percentage rate of interest, the date from which it is calculated and the date to which it is calculated, alternatively

 

7 Where more than one percentage rate of interest has been applied or compound interest has been applied in the calculation of the amount of interest specified at [5], specify each element of interest comprising the sum for interest specified at [5] and for each such element specify the amount treated as principal in the interest calculation, the percentage rate of interest, the date from which it is calculated and the date to which it is calculated.

 

8 Of the interest amounting to £xxx.xx claimed pursuant to County Courts Act 1984 section 69, specify the date from which it is calculated and the date to which it is calculated.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.12 request.

 

You should also ensure compliance with your CPR 16 duties and likewise ensure that the particular regarding interest are fully provided to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

 

If you are unable to comply with that part of this request concerned with CPR 31 and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with any part of this request or fail to request more time, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[lukiee11]

Reading a bit of the credit act and i thought this may come helpfull

im sure you can see that word banktuptcy 760

 

falsely implying or stating that action can, or will, be taken, when legally it cannot be taken

stating or implying that bankruptcy or sequestration proceedings might be initiated when the balance of the outstanding debt is too low to qualify for such proceedings

For example, stating or implying that enforcement proceedings will ensue, including (this is a non-exhaustive list)

• warrant of execution

• charging order

• attachment of earnings

　

under circumstances in which a court judgment has not been obtained.

[coledog]

Would suggest that he is also breaking OFT Guidelines - again

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?416-The-OFT-Debt-collection-guidance

[lukiee11]

i think i have enough to make a nice defence agaisnt andrew hart

[coledog]

Good - but make sure that you make the legal requests for documents and also make it very clear that you are defending this vigorously

[katysue]

Do we know of anyone who has actually gone to court with Hart?

[sillygirl1]

Several people have gone and have won, and others didn't show up and lost, so it is vital that you show up on the hearing date. Have you acknowledged the court claim, because I wouldn't bother CCAing him, it is too long a time period. You can do a short defence as follows

 

DEFENCE

 

On xxx date I borrowed xxx amount from xxx company, on xxx date xxx was repaid, therefore the original loan sum had been repaid.

 

Please see attached correspondence (list all emails/letters in date order and label them A, B, C etc, then add proof of all payments made to this person (insert suitable expletive instead of person)

 

This claim is vexatious and litigatious and without merit

 

I reserve the right to amend this defence should further evidence be needed

 

This is a statement of truth by XXX

[sillygirl1]

By keeping the defence short and stating facts you are not giving him any room to come up with legal jargon and case evidence in a response. This sometimes is the only way to deal with certain companies and a lot of judges will thank you for sticking to the facts and not trying to confuse the real issue.

 

He should not be allowed to bring any further claims in any court in the country.

[katysue]

His modus operandi appears to either be to wait until people are at their last repayment then take them to court regardless for a sum 10 x more than they borrowed, or to take them to court anyway in the hope that they will either not show up at court, or not file service or a defence and then he will get a Judgement in Default.

 

I took legal advice and they seem to think that he is guilty of abuse of process in many cases.

 

But i think that he must believe that he has a case, because he is shelling out nearly 300 for each case that gets as far as court.

[DonkeyB]

Can you let us know the terms of the payment arrangement you had? This is important. Because any such arrangement may supersede the original agreement, as long as you kept to the terms.

 

Please let us know the wording.

[Ell-enn]

Surely Unfair Terms (UTCCR) would be included in any defence ?

[pcr1]

Report to OFT - I have been lead to believe they are investigating the company but cannot say for certain.

 

The extra charges are what is referred to as Default Sums. Each time one is added to the account, a Notice of Default Sums must be sent. If not, then the agreement becomes unenforceable.

 

See sections 86E and 86F Consumer Credit Act 1974 as amended:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/part/VI/crossheading/sums-in-arrears-and-default-sums

 

Also see section 187A for definition which covers everything (texts, phone calls, letters, fees, whatever they are claiming):

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/187A

 

DO NOT get confused with a "Default Notice" which is not required for this type of loan (unless done as a rolling account).

[lukiee11]

Well at first I wad paying 40.80 for 6 months this become to much and I found out he was still adding on charges and not keep records and in one case I asked him how much I had paid back and ur claimed £70 when in fact it was £208 and his terms was on one case pay that for 13 months and then the full amount would be due which isn't the best way to do bussiness he is unfit to hold a ccl and thank you all for your advice I got till 5th to send my forms and defence back toget a court date

[DonkeyB]

But did you get the agreement in writing? Not sure Hart can actually write properly...

[sequenci]

Can you lodge a complaint about him with the OFT please?

 

Here's the complaints form:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/Credit/complaint-form.pdf

[lukiee11]

this is all i have had from him

 

 

Fixed-Sum Loan Agreement

 

On the terms set out below between:

 

The Lender: Wage Payment and Payday Loans Ltd, 8-12 Queens Avenue, Muswell Hill, London N10 3NR

 

The Borrower: **** ****** 51 the hollands ***** ***** ***** ******** ***** *****

 

Key Financial Information

 

 

Amount of loan £ 150

 

Term of Agreement 29 days

 

Total amount payable £191.68

 

 

 

Other Financial Information

 

 

Total Charge for Credit 41.68

 

Interest £33.68

 

Interest rate: %24

 

Fee: £8

 

 

 

Key Information

 

 

Default charges:

 

Interest at the interest rate stated above is payable on the amount of any instalment not paid by its due date.

 

MISSING PAYMENTS

 

Missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit more difficult.

 

Borrower's name:

 

Signature:

 

 

signed by computer

Date of signature: 28/12/2010

 

 

 

 

Signature for and on behalf of the Lender:

 

Date (which is the date of this agreement):

 

 

Terms and conditions

 

1. This agreement

 

1.1. You confirm that all the information you have provided to PaydayOverdraft is true and complete.

 

1.2. The agreement has been signed by or on behalf of the Lender. You will be deemed to have signed this agreement when you enter your name in the signature box. The agreement will come into force when you have signed it.

 

1.3. PaydayOverdraft will send you an email to confirm that this agreement has come into force together with a link from where you can download a copy of this agreement at any time.

 

2. The Loan

 

2.1. The Lender will advance to you the loan in the amount set out above.

 

2.2. You agree to pay the Lender the total amount payable in the instalments and at the times shown above.

 

2.3. Prompt payment is essential. If you are late in paying an instalment, in addition to the Lender's rights under clause 3, you will pay to the Lender, if so required, interest on the instalment from when it was due until when it is paid at the interest rate stated above.

 

 

 

3. Default

 

3.1. If you fail to pay any instalment on its due date, or if any information about you which you provided proves incomplete or inaccurate, the Lender may after the expiry of proper notice demand immediate payment of the unpaid balance of the total amount payable less any applicable rebate.

 

4. Cancellation

 

4.1. You have the right, under the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations 2004, to cancel this agreement, for a period of 14 days beginning with the day after this agreement is concluded.

 

4.2. You may exercise this right by giving notice to PaydayOverdraft in writing sent by post or by email. Notification sent by post must be sent to the following address: 8-12 Queens Avenue, Muswell Hill, London, N10 3NR. Notification by email must be sent to the following email address: admin paydayoverdraft.com

 

4.3. In the event that any such notification is made after the loan has been transferred to your bank account, you will be required to repay the amount of the loan in full, together with an administration fee which will be calculated by applying the Annual Percentage Rate to the Loan Amount on a pro rata basis for the period from the date we advance the Loan Amount to you to the date the Loan Amount is debited by us. Your right to cancel this agreement will be lost if you do not exercise the right within the cancellation period specified above.

 

4.4. By signing this agreement you request us to advance the loan to you before the expiry of the cancellation period.

 

5. Electronic communications

 

5.1. This agreement and all other communications between you and us are, unless otherwise stated, to be provided by way of electronic means. These are principally email, the PaydayOverdraft website or the telephone. You agree to follow the instructions for entering into this agreement which you will do by ticking a box available in the "signature" section in the Loan Agreement page.

 

6. General

 

6.1. If the Lender temporarily relaxes the terms of this agreement (for example, by giving you more time to pay) this will not prevent the Lender from strictly enforcing these terms in future.

 

6.2. The Lender can transfer its rights under this agreement at any time.

 

6.3. This agreement shall be governed by and construed according to the laws of England and Wales whose courts shall be the exclusive courts of jurisdiction.

 

6.4. In Scotland different words are used for some legal expressions. If you signed this agreement in Scotland, the Scottish equivalents shall be understood to have replaced such words in this agreement in order to give it effect there.

[DonkeyB]

Well, that’s a pile of bollix. Possibly the worst written contract I have ever seen. Incompetent and flawed. Interest rate misstated and all kinds of crud in there. About as much use as Mr Hart himself.

 

It simply states there may be ‘consequences’ and does not state what charges may be incurred. So he has no right to add any charges therefore.

 

The man is a menace – but mainly to his own useless business.

[lukiee11]

but dose it matter if i didn't read the terms on his website it doesn't stat by this contract or refer to any terms on conditions ?

 

are the terms on website forceable which not everyone would read

[DonkeyB]

but dose it matter if i didn't read the terms on his website it doesn't stat by this contract or refer to any terms on conditions ?

 

are the terms on website forceable which not everyone would read

 

Where does it mention the website terms? You can’t have two sets of T&Cs.