GE Money Sold House leaving shortfall

[rippedoff15]

Hi All,

 

Update we have wrote to the lender G e money & Optima legal regarding the matter and had no reply at all, today we have had a letter from Capital Recoveries again requesting the payment of £15,414.46 which is a differant amount optima state. what action should we do next as non of the companies are replying to our letters.

[unclebulgaria67]

Send copies of previous letters, saying you won't be replying until you have had responses to previous letters.

 

It is pretty obvious given the differing amounts, that there is some confusion going on with this. They have to respond to your letters or arrange for the original creditor to respond.

[sillygirl1]

I would report the lot to the OFT, FOS and FSA, it is against debt collecting guidelines to use multiple agencies to collect on an unsubstantiated debt (which is what a mortgage shortfall actually is... until every single bit of paperwork relating to it has been gathered together and verified).

[rippedoff15]

Hi, how do i report this matter to OFT FOS ? and FSA is thier a temp letter etc

cheers

[sillygirl1]

The OFT is http://www.oft.gov.uk - there is no template letter as mortgage shortfalls are such an individual thing, you are complaining about the use of mulitple companies to collect this unsubstantiated debt.

 

The FSA too do not have a template, put a complaint in about the companies coming up with different amounts

 

FSA Enforcement and Financial Crime Division

25 The North Collonade

Canary Wharf

London E14 5HS

 

For the FOS you are also complaining about how they have handled this, and you need to stress that deadlock has been reached. They are notoriously slow and can take about 8 weeks to reply, then they take about 2 years to do anything.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi, how do i report this matter to OFT FOS ? and FSA is thier a temp letter etc

cheers

 

No templates on CAG.

 

FOS- You have to complain to the company contacting you first and if not resolved within 8 weeks, you can then contact the FOS. See here

 

OFT - There is a form on this link which I think you can email them. Here

 

FSA- Don't deal with individual complaints, unless it is something which will affect many customers and they see it as a special case.

 

To be honest you might find this a fruitless exercise, as unless the DCA have totally broken the rules and committed murder, these various bodies won't do much.

 

If I were in your position, I would suggest that you ignore all these threat-o-grams and wait for them to take legal proceedings, where you can get proper legal advice if you need to. Just keep all the correspondence including the envelopes. You have asked for information and it is up to these companies to reply to you. I suspect that the mortgage company still owns the debt, but that it has been passed out for collection. Quite often they are pretty half hearted about collecting the shortfall, because they have contingency Insurance that would have covered most of the loss. The only chase the loss, because it is a condition of the Insurance arrangement.

[Bandit127]

It might be worth looking in to whether the mortgage company looked after your interest in the original sale of the property.

 

I don't have much of a clue how to do this, so I have started a with a SAR - I used a template letter and insisted that they include all details of the valuations, offers and final buyer details. (I do remember that they did not inform me of the identity of the buyer when they claimed the shortfall and it doesn't seem to be on any of the websites that show property sales).

 

Once you have this information you might find something you can formulate a compliant to the original creditor about. They will probably deny the complaint - which means you can escalate it to the FOS and they can adjudicate, possibly in your favour.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/81/81-valuation-disputes.htm

 

This could be another string to your bow..?

[rippedoff15]

Hi All,

 

We have had the following from Optima Legal single page letter stating the following details :

 

Sale Price £138,000

 

Costs & Fees

 

Optima legal £475.00

Asset Manager invoice £5,881.58 ????

 

Allowances

 

Ground Rent £37.50

Miss allowance Indemnity policies £475.00

 

total Payable £131,202.21

Client redemption £146,317.72

 

Shortfall Amount ( mortgage ) - £27590.06

Shortfall Amount secued loan - £15,115.51

 

They have also confirmed the following: the property was repssessed on friday 3rd December 2009, and the market value from a chartered sureyor was £135,000.

 

The property went on the market on 14th December 2009 and an offer of £138,000 was accepted on 5th Jan 2010 and the sale was completed on 18th feb 2010.

 

I have asked the following but getting no reply:

 

1, The lender had a sinlge valuation completed by a chartered sureyor and confirm a price in 5 working days, they did not get a local market price from a estate agent.

2, How did they market the property to gain the best price.

3, Should a lender get more than 1 valuation on a property, ie from local agents to give a local market price.

4, Also they could not have marketed the property correctly to gain a better price as most companies are closed over christmas and new year,

5, Can the lender sell the property to the first person just over the single valuation completed by the lender, if the proprty was marketed the agent normally places an advert in the lcoal paper staing that an offer has been made on the proprty and anyone esle could increase etc etc ( i have seen such adverts )

 

It just look very fishy that the lender repossess on 3rd Dec 2009 gets 1 valuation, puts the house on the market and sells to the first person, also at no point did the lender inform us that they had an offer nor whatb price the proprty was vaulaued, only a few noths before the house 3 doors away SOLD at £175,000 thats £40,000 less than the chartered sureyor .

 

Anyone got any thoughts, as we are running out of steam

 

cheers

[sillygirl1]

Does sound very fishy, as my old property was repossessed on October 2006 and sold in July 2007, and they had their Asset Management Fee too which took it into the shortfall, without that AMF (which, point out to them is for them to get the best price, which clearly in your case they did not) is NOT acceptable and you are fighting it as an unfair term and condition. Especially as you have proof the houses nearby sold at far more.

 

Did your 'statement' come on a letterhead or just a single blank page - if it is a single blank page then it is not a legally acceptable document for shortfall purposes (a legal friend told me that mortgage shortfalls are such a grey area everything can and should be queried, he is helping me with my complaint to the FOS/FSA and Council of Mortgage Lenders).

 

All this company want is to get as much as they can before Paratus is 'transferred' yet again to another bunch of chancers. Using multiple collection people is something frowned upon by the OFT so get complaining to them and to Trading Standards (especially if the alleged shortfall statement is typed on a single sheet of blank paper - anyone could 'create' this, and anyone could type/print it out, I could do a better job myself than they did on mine!).

 

The AMF (in Optima/Paratus's own words) is to ensure that the mortgagee in posession obtains the best price for the property, clearly they were VERY negligent in your case and this needs to be investigated - ask for all invoices relating to the AMF, who was appointed, when, what work did they do, and any related invoices to this fee are needed so you can verify the legitimacy of their alleged claim.

 

Give them as much paperwork to get hold of as possible and make their lives a nightmare instead.

[unclebulgaria67]

See if you can find out what is said in the CML handbook about obtaining valuations. I thought it was a minimum of two independent valuations.

 

http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/handbook

[rippedoff15]

Hi ,

 

The Short fall totals are just on a blank page typed by Optima legal and nor from the lender G E Money

 

cheers

[sillygirl1]

Therefore I could type you one out showing that Optima owe YOU £19,000 and you can send it to them.

 

This is not a legally binding document and if shown to a judge it would be laughed out of court.

 

The supporting evidence needs to be collected, a specific data request spelling out EXACTLY what documentation you need from them eg

 

Interest charge - the actuarial sheet used to come to this calculation, showing rates and periods charged

 

Now needs to be sent in and a complaint to the OFT and Trading Standards about that sheet needs to be lodged, a query to the Solicitors Regulatory Authority about the legality of a blank unheaded piece of paper being used needs to be sent as well.

 

Give them as much stick as you can and they will beat themselves up.

[unclebulgaria67]

If you have an unresolved complaint with the current owner of the debt which has been going on for more than 8 weeks, you can ask the FOS to look at your complaint. While the complaint ongoing with the FOS, this will stop them taking any other action and will give some breathing space while you investigate how the mortgage repossession and house sale were dealt with.

[caro]

Unfortunately they can pursue this debt from your wife, but if you and your wife aren't worried about getting credit in the next few years, then bankruptcy might be the simplest solution to get this behind you both once and for all.

 

Otherwise, I'd be inclined to agree with uncleb - ignore the threats, wait for them to take your wife to court - which they can't while there's an unresolved with FOS.

 

Have you sent them a SAR to get all the info? If so, and it's incomplete, you can complain to the Information Commissioners Office.

[rippedoff15]

Well yet another letter from Capital Recoveries demanding full repayment, also if we do not call them they will start court papers to claim teh full amount plus fees. We have sent to the mortgage lender a SAR by recorded delivery asking for full details regarding the mortgage which was taken out with I Group ( now G E Money ) and details of the secured loan. we have again asked for full details regarding the sale fo the property and if they claimed on any insanrance relating to both accounts. So far the lender has not replied so will keep on filing the letters , should we write to the company Captial Recoveries informing them that we will not deal with them only the lender.

[unclebulgaria67]

Well yet another letter from Capital Recoveries demanding full repayment, also if we do not call them they will start court papers to claim teh full amount plus fees. We have sent to the mortgage lender a SAR by recorded delivery asking for full details regarding the mortgage which was taken out with I Group ( now G E Money ) and details of the secured loan. we have again asked for full details regarding the sale fo the property and if they claimed on any insanrance relating to both accounts. So far the lender has not replied so will keep on filing the letters , should we write to the company Captial Recoveries informing them that we will not deal with them only the lender.

 

Where are you with registering any complaint ? They have not replied to previous correspondence where you asked questions.

 

Can you scan the letter after removing any indentifiers and post a link to CAG ? Just want to see what they are actually saying.

 

My instinct is to write back, saying that you consider the matter to be in dispute and that you still have not had any response to a previous letter. ( enclose a copy). Send by recorded delivery. If they go to court, at least you can show evidence that you have asked for information and they have failed to respond to reasonable requests.

[rippedoff15]

We have wrote to the lender G E money asking for complete information relating to the mortgage and secured loan and how they sold the property, they have cashed the payment for £10.00 yet still not supplied any confirmation that they are looking into this matter, we have also looked at PPI relating to both mortgage and secured loan as i was self employed at the time.

 

What next

[unclebulgaria67]

We have wrote to the lender G E money asking for complete information relating to the mortgage and secured loan and how they sold the property, they have cashed the payment for £10.00 yet still not supplied any confirmation that they are looking into this matter, we have also looked at PPI relating to both mortgage and secured loan as i was self employed at the time.

 

What next

 

They have up to 40 days to process the SAR and it will be big envelope when the information comes back.

 

If you have made a complaint and capital recoveries are aware of this, I would wait for the SAR info to come back.

[Loser4u]

Have you made a CCA request?

[sillygirl1]

Loser4u, this is a mortgage shortfall we are talking about, not a loan, a CCA is pointless, won't give any useful information and will be a waste of time and effort.

 

You really need to do your homework on mortgage shortfalls.

[Loser4u]

Loser4u, this is a mortgage shortfall we are talking about, not a loan, a CCA is pointless, won't give any useful information and will be a waste of time and effort.

 

You really need to do your homework on mortgage shortfalls.

It depends if the mortgage is covered by CCA or not.

For me it proved the date the mortgage was taken out, who the original lender was and the terms and conditions.

This meant I could prove that statements where missing from both the SAR data and the evidence submitted to the court

Without all the statements the claimant was unable to prove the accuracy of their figures and as a bonus it also proved there was lots of errors in the witness statements.

 

Yes I have only had to defend the one claim for a Mortgage shortfall but I didn't lose.

The final bonus was the information commissioner upholding my complaint against the claimant and ruling that I had both been mislead and all the requested data should have been provided including paper records

[sillygirl1]

An interesting point, but in most cases the shortfall doesn't get to court, and therefore there is very little point in a CCA request when a detailed SAR will prove that the company are 'hiding'.

 

Who was your lender and how much was your alleged shortfall? Would you like to reveal that for the forum?

[citizenB]

When did you send the SAR - the company has 40 calendar days to comply.

 

Some mortgages were / are covered by the CCA.

[Loser4u]

An interesting point, but in most cases the shortfall doesn't get to court, and therefore there is very little point in a CCA request when a detailed SAR will prove that the company are 'hiding'.

 

Who was your lender and how much was your alleged shortfall? Would you like to reveal that for the forum?

 

The Claimant was Bank of Scotland and shortfall including charges was about £15k plus also asking for 11 years worth of interest at 8% and estimated legal fees of £10k.

The mortgage was with a smaller company who where aquired by a couple of other companies before becoming part of the Leeds and then the Halifax.

[sillygirl1]

Thanks, that explains a few things, if they were asking 11 years worth of interest at 8% that was a bit naughty as they are only allowed by law to have interest for the first 6 years of a shortfall.... also the estimated legal fees would be severely queried, sounds like they thought they were onto a winner and using the legal fees as a 'frightener'.

 

Well done indeed for beating this lot.

 

In my case the second charge lender is in administration, as is the first charge lender so neither are getting anything from me as it will be swallowed up in THEIR legal and administration costs!

 

Even if the FOS get their finger out on the case it is 6 years next month from the original second charge lender repossession and no word from them.

 

It really is a pity the government allow themselves to be misled by the bankers of this once proud country, the financial services industry is a very naughty industry (IMHO)