Euro tunnel Bump

[funkymonk]

Hello,Looking for some advice/ opinions.Last thursday, On my way back from france, having passed through UK border control I boarded the Euro tunnel car train.I was parked by a steward having come to a stop at this point. The car then stalled, in lurching forward it hit the car in front.I understand I was driving the car, but I was told to park in first gear and where to park. Am I fully liable?Only question this as normally I wouldnt park in first gear and also this close to another car.And where legal has this accident happend in terms of country, if this maters?Thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello there and welcome to CAG.

 

I know the Eurotunnel system. I'm not sure how much blame you can pass to them. Wouldn't you normally engage first gear after you'd stopped the engine and put the handbrake on?

 

In terms of which country, was the car covered in France?

 

My best, HB

[unclebulgaria67]

The only person who can be at fault in this situation is the driver in control of the car. The car would only be in the UK once it was within UK territorial waters. If you did not have a green card to extend cover to Europe, you may not be covered.

[dx100uk]

and uorotunnel are not to blame either

 

if you forgot you were in gear then so be it.

 

dx

[funkymonk]

Thank you for your replies.Being a more recent driver we aren't taught to park in gear. My greivance is they should surely take in to consideration when parking you that this could happen?I thought you only needed a green card if you were going to be spending more than 30 days abroad?Needless to say I'm a bit concerned.

[honeybee13]

If you don't know how to park in gear, how do you manage if you park on a slope? I was taught 100 years ago, but one of my first reflexes before I turn the ingnition is to check the car's in neutral. Things must have changed a lot.

 

Did you tell your insurer you were taking the car to France?

 

HB

[funkymonk]

I have checked my Certificate and it states European countries, I only need to advise them if the period is over 30 consecutive days. So thats one good thing.Now the Liability....

[funkymonk]

If you don't know how to park in gear, how do you manage if you park on a slope? I was taught 100 years ago, but one of my first reflexes before I turn the ingnition is to check the car's in neutral. Things must have changed a lot.

Handbrake, I would to but with the comotion and stuff I was a bit flustered I know that might sound silly.

[honeybee13]

I have checked my Certificate and it states European countries, I only need to advise them if the period is over 30 consecutive days. So thats one good thing.Now the Liability....

 

Well that's something. Is there much damage involved?

 

HB

[funkymonk]

Well that's something. Is there much damage involved?

 

HB

 

No visable damage, so hopefully nothing will come from it.My point is if you park somewhere or stop in traffic you allow space for such instances!?Surely they can be neglegent in such instance?They took pictures of our cars once I asked for an employee number.

[honeybee13]

I don't know if it's negligent, but if they did what you're suggesting they wouldn't get the same number of cars in the trains and I imagine the fares would go up. The ferries employ the same system, but possibly don't get you to engage first gear.

[unclebulgaria67]

No visable damage, so hopefully nothing will come from it.My point is if you park somewhere or stop in traffic you allow space for such instances!?Surely they can be neglegent in such instance?They took pictures of our cars once I asked for an employee number.

 

You were in control of the car, so they cannot be negligent. Ask yourself the question, as to how you would explain their negligence in front of a judge. On the balance of probability, who would the judge think would have more control over the car and therefore would be responsible for a damage they caused.

 

In regard to green card cover, there are some policies that provide this automatically for third party cover up to 30 days. It is whether you would be covered for any damage to your own car, had it been damaged. Before you take the car abroad again, you may wish to enquire, as to the extent of the cover you have.

[funkymonk]

I don't know if it's negligent, but if they did what you're suggesting they wouldn't get the same number of cars in the trains and I imagine the fares would go up. The ferries employ the same system, but possibly don't get you to engage first gear.

 

I appreciate what your saying but they have to surely consider safety and property?Maybe they shouldn't put as many cars on....I dunno I've never had a crash and maybe that irratates me.

[Endymion]

How are they going to be negligent for your actions when you couldn't control your own vehicle when driving at 1-2 mph?

 

You leave spaces when you park or in traffic so that you can manouevre out of that spot if the car in front breaks down etc, not on the basis you might accidently leap forward and hit the car in front or crush the poor unfortunate sole who is trying to pass in front of the vehicle.

 

I can see where you are trying to go, but a carrier such as Eurotunnel would have a quite reasonable expectation that someone who has passed their uk driving test would be able to drive slowly onto a train without stalling or hitting other vehicles.

 

If the Eurotunnel employee was dressed as a clown, was jumping and dancing around and squirting water out of his fake flower onto your windscreen, so obstructing your view and being a distraction, then you might have a chance... otherwise I would just hope no claim is made against you.

[funkymonk]

You were in control of the car, so they cannot be negligent. Ask yourself the question, as to how you would explain their negligence in front of a judge. On the balance of probability, who would the judge think would have more control over the car and therefore would be responsible for a damage they caused.

 

In regard to green card cover, there are some policies that provide this automatically for third party cover up to 30 days. It is whether you would be covered for any damage to your own car, had it been damaged. Before you take the car abroad again, you may wish to enquire, as to the extent of the cover you have.

 

Yes I shall next time one lesson learnt.As for a judge, I would simply say/ argue normally I would leave a greater distance to allow room for such instances.Surely they shoudl also consider this wehn advising people how close to park or settign such distances.Thoughts?

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes I shall next time one lesson learnt.As for a judge, I would simply say/ argue normally I would leave a greater distance to allow room for such instances.Surely they shoudl also consider this wehn advising people how close to park or settign such distances.Thoughts?

 

That is up to you to follow up with Eurotunnel if you think it is worth it. I don't follow the argument you are making, as I was not there at the time. I think you needed to be there at the time, to see how someone outside of the car helped caused the accident. Unfortunately my imagination does not stretch that far.

[funkymonk]

That is up to you to follow up with Eurotunnel if you think it is worth it. I don't follow the argument you are making, as I was not there at the time. I think you needed to be there at the time, to see how someone outside of the car helped caused the accident. Unfortunately my imagination does not stretch that far.

 

They simple edge you forward with hand signals, and tell you when to stop. Which I did, I then stalled.

[funkymonk]

How are they going to be negligent for your actions when you couldn't control your own vehicle when driving at 1-2 mph?

 

You leave spaces when you park or in traffic so that you can manouevre out of that spot if the car in front breaks down etc, not on the basis you might accidently leap forward and hit the car in front or crush the poor unfortunate sole who is trying to pass in front of the vehicle.

 

I can see where you are trying to go, but a carrier such as Eurotunnel would have a quite reasonable expectation that someone who has passed their uk driving test would be able to drive slowly onto a train without stalling or hitting other vehicles.

 

If the Eurotunnel employee was dressed as a clown, was jumping and dancing around and squirting water out of his fake flower onto your windscreen, so obstructing your view and being a distraction, then you might have a chance... otherwise I would just hope no claim is made against you.

 

You can pass your driving test if you stall the car.

[Michael Browne]

You can pass your driving test if you stall the car.

But probably not if you stall it into the car in front

[funkymonk]

But probably not if you stall it into the car in front

 

Ah ha but you'd normally leave space for that not to happen ;o)

[Ganymede]

They simple edge you forward with hand signals, and tell you when to stop. Which I did, I then stalled.

 

 

Come off it, I'm sorry but this is your fault.

 

I think you need to accept that and stop clutching at straws.

[funkymonk]

Come off it, I'm sorry but this is your fault.

 

I think you need to accept that and stop clutching at straws.

 

Maybe you are right.

[crem]

This isn't my board for visiting normally as I usually spend my time on the motoring board, but it was pointed out to me as an interesting thread for a driving instructor.

 

There are some valid comments throughout about "was I taught this", or "was I taught that", but absolutely paramount above all is that the driver alone has total responsibility for the control of their car.

 

Reading through the thread I'll just throw my opinion (and that's all it is as driving instruction is not an exact science) on some of the comments

 

He told me where to park, in 1st gear. Yes, but he didn't tell you to stall, nor restart the engine in gear. You should always park in gear where there is a risk of movement like on a hill, or a moving train! as a handbreak cannot be trusted in these situations.

 

Wouldn't you normally engage first gear after you'd stopped the engine and put the handbrake on? No, we don't generally teach parking like that for a "normal" parking situation, nor do we advise against it either though, but would explain examples of being on a hill and leaving it in gear and turning wheels towards the kerb.

 

Being a more recent driver we aren't taught to park in gear. True. As said above

 

My greivance is they should surely take in to consideration when parking you that this could happen? Why? You are driving the car and although you weren't taught to park in gear, you were taught to check is the car "safe" before starting the engine. "Safe" in driver training lessons would mean is the handbrake on and is the car in neutral. Some new cars do assist the driver in this regard, for example BMWs do not even allow you to start the engine unless you fully depress the clutch pedal, thus ensuring even if you have left it in gear, it cannot lurch forward when started. In the automatic version they require you to firmly press the brake pedal ensuring the car is being held firmly stationary before starting.

 

I was taught 100 years ago, but one of my first reflexes before I turn the ingnition is to check the car's in neutral We still do as said above. ie question 1 to self "is the car safe before starting?" safe = handbrake + neutral

 

My point is if you park somewhere or stop in traffic you allow space for such instances! Yes, you allow space, but no I wouldn't agree it is "for such instances". You leave space so that you have an "escape route" if something happens like the car in front breaks down or has had a bump with the car in front of him so you can get out from behind him. We advise stopping about 1/2 a car length short sometimes referred to as "tyres and tarmac" meaning can you still see the car in front's tyres on the floor.

 

The ferries employ the same system, but possibly don't get you to engage first gear. They do. As I said earlier, you will find wherever there is a risk of movement of the vehicle, they will want it in gear. on the ferries, and I assume the trains also, if you take a motorbike on they actully lash it down with ropes as leaving a bike in gear is no help when it's parked on it's stand as it lifts the back wheel off the floor"

 

You can pass your driving test if you stall the car. Yes you can, but several things will be taken into account by the examiner. A stall is always at least a minor fault, if you keep repeating the same minor fault it will be "upgaded" to a serious. I would suggest 3 or 4 stalls, even when in a safe location would result in a fail as the examiner considers you are not exercising proper control over your car. A single stall will be a serious fault fail if on that particular occasion it could have been dangerous to others. I have had a pupil fail a test when first getting into a car for exactly that. He started the engine having not checked it was "safe" and lept forward nearly hitting another examiner who was checking around the learner car in front of him. Now nearly running an examiner over I can assure you will always be considered serious fault and failure!!

 

But probably not if you stall it into the car in front. So true, as explained above!

[funkymonk]

Thank you for your response and time.

 

I think the thing is I feel I wasn't 100% to blame, especially due to the distance I was instructed to park from the other car.

Whether thats because it recently happened or my own bias I was unsure so thought I'd ask opinions.

 

Crem, do you believe I'm 100% at fault you can be blunt. I think thats what you are suggesting with your comment about the driver alone being in control of the car.

 

Thanks

[Ganymede]

Thank you for your response and time.

 

I think the thing is I feel I wasn't 100% to blame, especially due to the distance I was instructed to park from the other car.

Whether thats because it recently happened or my own bias I was unsure so thought I'd ask opinions.

 

Crem, do you believe I'm 100% at fault you can be blunt. I think thats what you are suggesting with your comment about the driver alone being in control of the car.

 

Thanks

 

 

Yes you are 100% to blame. However, it seems like you are lucky as no damage done.