Ministry of Justice release the Consultation Paper on the reform of the bailiff industry

[tomtubby]

Wonkey Donkey. Excellent points as always. Like me, you are trying to plough through the Consulation document. There is a lot of reading!!

 

By midday tomorrow, I should have introduction notes for all of the sub headings. Another late night.......

[brassnecked]

Wonkey Donkey. Excellent points as always. Like me, you are trying to plough through the Consulation document. There is a lot of reading!!

 

By midday tomorrow, I should have introduction notes for all of the sub headings. Another late night.......

 

keep up the good work tomtubby, there is plenty to go at as we plough through that document, the devil as always is in the detail.

[tomtubby]

"Devil is in the detail"........you are SO right !!!

[lamma]

There is no way this will end up as anything other than worse for the general population. Just the size and impenetrability of the Consultation document tells is that ! I think tomtubby should be 'excused' normal forum postings for a while so she is not as time pressed as she would otherwise be. Believe me I am not trying to 'reduce' her in any way. We all know she is the bees knees, and a very busy person. Frankly the public at large needs her efforts more than we specifically do during this period. I am sure other experts will pick the load for her on here. What say thee ?

[brassnecked]

There is no way this will end up as anything other than worse for the general population. Just the size and impenetrability of the Consultation document tells is that ! I think tomtubby should be 'excused' normal forum postings for a while so she is not as time pressed as she would otherwise be. Believe me I am not trying to 'reduce' her in any way. We all know she is the bees knees, and a very busy person. Frankly the public at large needs her efforts more than we specifically do during this period. I am sure other experts will pick the load for her on here. What say thee ?

 

Tomtubby will pace herself, a she will have to digest and critique the documentation, as she is one of the formal consultees, so I think you are right lamma we shouldn't expect to see her quite as often for a while.

 

We should all at least look at the areas that interst us and post on the subforum, paying attention especially to the scale of fees, the vulnerability issues, and the impact assessment, if not the legalese in the main pdf

[lamma]

I agree. I did not mean or imply that this would be a sole effort by tomtubby, just that all the help that can be brought to her should be. You are correct to point it out though. I expect no less

[tomtubby]

I am just finishing a Newsletter for CAG on the Consultation and tomorrow will finish posting introduction notes for each sub heading.

 

As I said, the "devil is in the detail" and even though I had read the Consultation Paper 3 times, I had MISSED some very important "little" changes that do NOT appeal. If I get a chance, I will post back on this later tonight.

[brassnecked]

I am just finishing a Newsletter for CAG on the Consultation and tomorrow will finish posting introduction notes for each sub heading.

 

As I said, the "devil is in the detail" and even though I had read the Consultation Paper 3 times, I had MISSED some very important "little" changes that do NOT appeal. If I get a chance, I will post back on this later tonight.

Thanks TT there are some little gems (not) hidden away in there.

[tomtubby]

I am just finishing a Newsletter for CAG on the Consultation and tomorrow will finish posting introduction notes for each sub heading.

 

As I said, the "devil is in the detail" and even though I had read the Consultation Paper 3 times, I had MISSED some very important "little" changes that do NOT appeal. If I get a chance, I will post back on this later tonight.

 

I am sure that the following proposal will cause considerable concern and proves again that the "devil is in the details" !!!

 

We considered placing restrictions on the days when an enforcement agent can enter a property (for example, not on religious days) but on balance have decided that including this in the regulations would prove unworkable. The enforcement agent would have to gather advance intelligence on the debtor in order to make a if incorrect. The regulations will therefore allow the enforcement agent to enter premises on any day of the week.

 

Notice the last 5 words !!!!!

[citizenB]

I can see that one becoming contentious !

 

Would that involve Human Rights in some way ??

[seanamarts]

any day of the week.

 

No way!!!

No disrespect to other religions. But our Sundays have been the day of rest for hundreds of years, why should it be disrupted?

If we let the bailiffs have this day, how do we get hold of the council, in case the bailiffs have it wrong.

We cannot get hold of solicitors either, no doubt the bailiff office will be shut as well.

Banks arnt open either (not every one has a debit card). Also will they be able to charge a double rate for coming out on a Sunday, I know the tow trucks will want more money for coming out on a Sunday.

 

Has this really been thought through properly ?????

[brassnecked]

They will argue that diversity and equal treatment, dictates that they cannot favour not enforcing on the Christian Sabbath, any more than they can not enforce against Jews on saturday, and Muslims on Friday, so they will make it 24/7 365, as doubtless they will allow enforcement on bank Holidays, and Christmas Day also. This needs opposing so perhaps site team could move these thread posts to the Time and date of visits thread of the sub forum, and we can focus on this there.

[brassnecked]

No way!!!

No disrespect to other religions. But our Sundays have been the day of rest for hundreds of years, why should it be disrupted?

If we let the bailiffs have this day, how do we get hold of the council, in case the bailiffs have it wrong.

We cannot get hold of solicitors either, no doubt the bailiff office will be shut as well.

Banks arnt open either (not every one has a debit card). Also will they be able to charge a double rate for coming out on a Sunday, I know the tow trucks will want more money for coming out on a Sunday.

 

Has this really been thought through properly ?????

 

Yes in all probability, but such things as tradition should not get in the way of enforcement and getting the moolah they will argue. In all likelihood they may backtrack on this but they will push through enforcement on bank holidays and Christmas by the back door

[seanamarts]

But its not just about religion Brassy, its about convenience and whether they will be allowed to charge more being it a Sunday. You can bet that they will be a mass exodus of bailiffs working on a Sunday just to bump their charges up to Sunday Rates.

 

Can you imagine what they would charge for on a Bank holiday and Christmas!!!!!!

[brassnecked]

But its not just about religion Brassy, its about convenience and whether they will be allowed to charge more being it a Sunday. You can bet that they will be a mass exodus of bailiffs working on a Sunday just to bump their charges up to Sunday Rates.

They have killed their own pig then, just like retail workers where a zero hour contract nullifies enhanced sunday payments, so will 7 day enforcement, as to charge extra for the sunday would breach their own Equality legislation and the whole equality concept. Not that it will stop Capquita trying it on, even if it isn't in the regulations

[tomtubby]

I will get this sub heading done this morning so that these posts can be directed to to the right pages.

[brassnecked]

I will get this sub heading done this morning so that these posts can be directed to to the right pages.

thanks TT, more and more little diamonds are appearing in the detail of this, things that make you go HMMMMMM

[lamma]

Not wishing to make this even more of a toil. But how will this overturn the copious, and some of it quite old, legislation ? I know enough to know that the consultation document is at the least poorly drafted. Or perhaps very well drafted depending on the intent. And therein lies the nub of it. I surmise that they have their eyes only on revenue and are not focussed on compliance to the law that binds Local Authorities and Bailiffs. So no change there. This will undoubtedly make a bad situation worse. They have slipped in all kinds of nasty little clauses in among the copious verbiage. The forest needs to be distinguished from the trees I believe - while not missing any of the dangerous trees. Not easy ! If I knew the Regs well enough I would chip in in detail but I fear such efforts may just create more work for the 'heavy lifters'.

[ims21]

so whats happened to my posts? is this not the consumer group?

 

You need to read the site rules. Multiple posting just to get to be able to post a link contravenes the site rules which you agreed to on signing up.

 

The posts you made have therefore been removed

 

ims

[outlawla]

I see, so what you are saying is site rules are more important than your presented title of consumer action group?

 

You have to think "Alabama" or a neck of a particular "light" district.

[tomtubby]

A lot of people in the enforcement and advice sector have been pushing for this Consultation on bailiff reform for a very long time. However, after spending the past week reading and re-reading the Consultation and attachments it is becoming clear that there are some VERY worrying proposals that may well lead to a significant RISE in complaints !!!

 

I have rewritten the Newsletter and sub headings 8 times. No more changes being made and will post them tomorrow.

[brassnecked]

A lot of people in the enforcement and advice sector have been pushing for this Consultation on bailiff reform for a very long time. However, after spending the past week reading and re-reading the Consultation and attachments it is becoming clear that there are some VERY worrying proposals that may well lead to a significant RISE in complaints !!!

 

I have rewritten the Newsletter and sub headings 8 times. No more changes being made and will post them tomorrow.

 

From what I have read and digested in the consultation, there is a significant move that favours the enforcers to the ultimate detriment of debtors, especially those on low incomes, or benefits with the minimum £305 charge

[tomtubby]

The Consultation Paper on the proposed reform of the bailiff industry consists of 203 pages !!!!

In the following Newsletter that I have written for Consumer Action Group I have provided an outline of the important parts of the Consultation:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?857-Newsletter-March-2012-Special-Focus-Edition-MOJ

[tomtubby]

My 2nd Newsletter dedicated to the subject of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents was released today:

 

http://forums.moneysavingexpert. com/showthread.php?t=3846425& highlight=bailiff