tescogate

[sadone]

Employers reject jobs scheme that's all work and no pay

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/employers-reject-jobs-scheme-thats-all-work-and-no-pay-7079777.html

[LaughingGirl]

Well, that's mostly good news. I would be quite happy to vote with my feet against any firm taking part in this.

 

I have no objection to people genuinely getting work experience, nor do I have a problem with people taking voluntary unpaid internships if they chose to do so. What I have a problem with is massive corporations using taxpayer money to avoid having to employ people. When Tesco announce that they will be paying the employee's JSA for the duration of their stint, I'll start shopping there again.

[sadone]

Thing is what about Tax credits? If more companies paid a decent wage then the government wouldn't need to subsidize these companies through the tax system by topping up their employees wages.

[silv.surfer]

I have read elsewhere that TescoSS - and that is not Super Store think 1939to45 - perhaps you are too young - have had 1400 through on this Scheme but they point out - guaranteed Interviews - but only 300 got jobs.

 

The only variation on this point is nothing to do with Workfare - before that was invented I felt that Fit people on JSA should be called on when there is a National Weather or similar problem e.g. Snow and there are not enough County Council pavement sanders then they should be told to help sand the pavements to stop the Elderly being confined indoors because they dare not step on the pavements. There is a large Elderly Supported Housing section in my road and it was other Supported Residents that sanded their own pavements outside. Not one of the Benefit Claimants went out to help.

 

There is also no good reason why the same Benefit people couldn't help sweep up leaves in Autumn - I am 72 and I Volenteer to help maintain the Community Garden - on my own now because the other Pensioner moved away last year.

 

In one Block of 9 Council Social Housing Flats opposite the Community Garden there are 1 at College, I Drug Dealer and still is,for 30 years and 3 Alcoholics, 2 living elsewhere, (none are on the Work Prog.) 1 in Fulltime Work and 1 over 50 that had helped me last year but has now got a Part-time Job - out of the 36 Rental Flats in 4 blocks only 9 have got Jobs. Unfortunately this scenario is replicated all over the Country.

 

I dont agree with this Scheme being used by Big Business Bandits to enhance their Profits - How much would Tesco have saved with Workforce on the 1100 being free instead of NMW.

[Nystagmite]

There is a large Elderly Supported Housing section in my road and it was other Supported Residents that sanded their own pavements outside. Not one of the Benefit Claimants went out to help.

 

Contrary to popular belief, not all benefit claimants sit on their bums all day and do nothing. Given that many have job interviews, will hand out CVs, etc. they may not have had time.

 

In one Block of 9 Council Social Housing Flats opposite the Community Garden there are 1 at College, I Drug Dealer and still is,for 30 years and 3 Alcoholics, 2 living elsewhere, (none are on the Work Prog.)

 

How would you know that?

[antone]

I have read elsewhere that TescoSS - and that is not Super Store think 1939to45 - perhaps you are too young - have had 1400 through on this Scheme but they point out - guaranteed Interviews - but only 300 got jobs.

 

The only variation on this point is nothing to do with Workfare - before that was invented I felt that Fit people on JSA should be called on when there is a National Weather or similar problem e.g. Snow and there are not enough County Council pavement sanders then they should be told to help sand the pavements to stop the Elderly being confined indoors because they dare not step on the pavements. There is a large Elderly Supported Housing section in my road and it was other Supported Residents that sanded their own pavements outside. Not one of the Benefit Claimants went out to help.

 

There is also no good reason why the same Benefit people couldn't help sweep up leaves in Autumn - I am 72 and I Volenteer to help maintain the Community Garden - on my own now because the other Pensioner moved away last year.

 

In one Block of 9 Council Social Housing Flats opposite the Community Garden there are 1 at College, I Drug Dealer and still is,for 30 years and 3 Alcoholics, 2 living elsewhere, (none are on the Work Prog.) 1 in Fulltime Work and 1 over 50 that had helped me last year but has now got a Part-time Job - out of the 36 Rental Flats in 4 blocks only 9 have got Jobs. Unfortunately this scenario is replicated all over the Country.

 

I dont agree with this Scheme being used by Big Business Bandits to enhance their Profits - How much would Tesco have saved with Workforce on the 1100 being free instead of NMW.

 

If there aren't enough council staff to clear the streets of snow, then the councils should employ more people at NMW. Same for leaf sweepers. The idea that we can end the problem of unemployment by dragooning the unemployed into unpaid labour is, well, bizarre. Who is ever going to employ people if they know that unemployed people are available, effectively for free? There's a case for some types of work experience, but it should be exactly that: experience. If there's actual work that needs to be done, we put on our "grown up pants" and employ someone. You know, like a civilised society.

[LaughingGirl]

Can't agree more. I'm fed up (and this is something that both Labour and ConDem were/are guilty of) of silly schemes that do nothing but manipulate the unemployment figures.

 

My OH was on the first intake of New Deal, about 15 years ago. Although he wasn't long term unemployed, he'd actually begged to go on it because on paper it sounded like a good idea. His ND contract stipulated that at the end of the course, he'd have experience and qualifications in landscape gardening. Many weeks and £1000 of taxpayer money later, he'd been on a shockingly poor basic I.T skills course (during which he'd sorted out the servers for the company running it) which cost £750, and an 'away day' during which he built a replica iron age round house (for a paying tourist attraction, owned by a titled 'member of the establishment)'.

 

No...he didn't get a landscaping job after he finished. What a complete waste of time and money...

[jadeybags]

Companies use enough people for unpaid employment as it is, look at the work experience some 15 yr old kids get while at school, my son was sent to Sainsburys, full time for a week, didn't even get expenses, apart from stacking shelves, & cleaning shelves with a bucket & water, not too sure what experience he got. He already gets up for school & has to do that every day so why do they need to work for nothing in a shop? I paid him a fiver a day during that week.

If earning money for working isn't work experience then cleaning shelves definitely isn't.

Sainsburys are doing this scheme but they reckon they will only so it if there is a chance of a job at the end of it, I guess providing the person isn't a lazy so n so, they would take them on permanent. That's not a terrible thing.

[speedfreek]

during which he built a replica iron age round house

 

Could actually be handy that skill with the current benefit cuts

[jabba jones]

Well it made me laugh.....

 

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2012/02/17/supermarkets-slammed-for-using-jobseekers-to-power-self-service-checkouts/

 

[Sidewinder]

Companies use enough people for unpaid employment as it is, look at the work experience some 15 yr old kids get while at school, my son was sent to Sainsburys, full time for a week, didn't even get expenses, apart from stacking shelves, & cleaning shelves with a bucket & water, not too sure what experience he got. He already gets up for school & has to do that every day so why do they need to work for nothing in a shop? I paid him a fiver a day during that week.

If earning money for working isn't work experience then cleaning shelves definitely isn't.

Sainsburys are doing this scheme but they reckon they will only so it if there is a chance of a job at the end of it, I guess providing the person isn't a lazy so n so, they would take them on permanent. That's not a terrible thing.

 

I must admit that I have very mixed feelings about this. My son has been on one of these placements, and it was only recommended as he has absolutely no experience of the workplace whatsoever. He had to be interviewed to get the placement, and it was strictly limited to four weeks.

 

Was it useful? Undoubtedly, as he has been turned down for umpteen jobs due to a lack of experience, and now can at least demonstrate even a basic understanding of working in a retail environment. Did he object? No - for the same reason as above. All he wants is for anything which can on paper improve his chances of getting an opportunity to improve his CV. Did I object? Hell no - as a taxpayer I would far rather that he is doing something in return for benefits. Is it exploitation? Undoubtedly by some companies. However - the fact is that in the current environment, and particularly in retail, companies are stretched so far on staff that they have simply been unable to recruit. People think that these organisations should be forced to pay NMW in return for the workers under this scheme. Well they wouldn't do it, and removing this 'free' labour would not make them recruit one single extra paid member of staff.

 

As I said previously, it stinks, and everybody should be able to get a fair days pay for a fair days work, but we can't have it both ways. The majority of people want to see those on benefits doing something in return. If the paid jobs were available, then the number of unemployed would not be what it is. We can't simply create paid jobs, so if this scheme is controlled and leads to a genuinely increased opportunity to achieve paid work, I don't see a problem. Strangely, neither do many of those who are doing the 'unpaid' work!

[silv.surfer]

If Councils could fortell the Future they would make millions - what I was referring to was Community Spirit when 6 inches of snow fell over night in an area where it wasnt expected.

 

Nystagmite

 

I know who lives above me - I am currently helping the Vunerable Adult above (the only one on Work Prog.) who has managed to get a Permanent Part-time Job Himself after being Targetted and given wrong info. regarding signing off by Maximus on a previous 30 hours x 8 weeks Job that evapourated after 18 hours because the Company mistake getting too many people, so he was denied the JobStart and HB run-on etc. for this New Job - I have put a letter together for him to the Decision Maker to get this Reviewed and am now helping him to sort Low Wage HB & CTB and Working Tax Credits because as a Vunerable Adult cant sort it himself and didnt know where to turn for help, certainly NO help for him at Maximus - the waste of space !!!!

 

When I have got that all sorted I shall go back to getting his PPI of 7 years Reclaimed where the Bank have been having him over. So there is no need to say they were handing out CVs because there were NO footprints outside there until the Postman struggled along. He even made a comment on their lack of help

[antone]

If Councils could fortell the Future they would make millions - what I was referring to was Community Spirit when 6 inches of snow fell over night in an area where it wasnt expected.

 

 

Well, sure. Community spirit is good. And if we do our best to make benefit claimants feel reviled and despised by their community, can we then complain when they show a distinct lack of community spirit?

[osdset]

I must admit that I have very mixed feelings about this. My son has been on one of these placements, and it was only recommended as he has absolutely no experience of the workplace whatsoever. He had to be interviewed to get the placement, and it was strictly limited to four weeks.

 

Was it useful? Undoubtedly, as he has been turned down for umpteen jobs due to a lack of experience, and now can at least demonstrate even a basic understanding of working in a retail environment. Did he object? No - for the same reason as above. All he wants is for anything which can on paper improve his chances of getting an opportunity to improve his CV. Did I object? Hell no - as a taxpayer I would far rather that he is doing something in return for benefits. Is it exploitation? Undoubtedly by some companies. However - the fact is that in the current environment, and particularly in retail, companies are stretched so far on staff that they have simply been unable to recruit. People think that these organisations should be forced to pay NMW in return for the workers under this scheme. Well they wouldn't do it, and removing this 'free' labour would not make them recruit one single extra paid member of staff.

 

As I said previously, it stinks, and everybody should be able to get a fair days pay for a fair days work, but we can't have it both ways. The majority of people want to see those on benefits doing something in return. If the paid jobs were available, then the number of unemployed would not be what it is. We can't simply create paid jobs, so if this scheme is controlled and leads to a genuinely increased opportunity to achieve paid work, I don't see a problem. Strangely, neither do many of those who are doing the 'unpaid' work!

There is an argument that those who have paid very little or nothing into the system should be required to invest something back in terms of time, but the mandatory work placements also apply to claimants that have had many years of employment and have paid substantial amounts in NI over the years.

 

Before I had to migrate from JSA to ESA I was about to be placed on the 4 week mandatory work activity scheme, I have made over thirty five years worth of contributions into this system, I calculate that all the JSA and ESA payments I have received to date comes to a fraction of the amount that has been deducted at source from my wages over the years, and therefore I am only getting back a percentage of what I have PAID FOR.

 

The government is quick to point out that NI contributions are not savings as such and only pay for those claiming at the time. I would argue then, that on that basis I helped to pay for anyone who was claiming over the last 35 years, those that are working now are paying for me, either way it is looked at I and people like me are getting their entitlements not handouts, mandatory forced labour is an insult, it's illegal, and a blatant breach of human rights. This governments best reaction to a failing economy is to penalise the disadvantaged, a policy of starve the dog then beat it when it scavenges for scraps.

[MrHistory]

Another IT mess up http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/detailjob.aspx?sessionid=65c7ada6-f1f7-4c73-95c2-063edbb29330&pid=2&j=ean/29944

 

Screen grab before it's removed or are they not bothered anymore.

[Nystagmite]

I was told that I would have to do a placement with Sainsburys - that was by my Remploy adviser. She's aware that I volunteer a few hours a week; but apparently, that's not good enough. So, if I did do this placement (which I will refuse to do) that means that someone is getting free labour and that the place I volunteer, will lose a member of staff for several weeks - on a day we're already short-staffed.

[andydd]

I was told that I would have to do a placement with Sainsburys - that was by my Remploy adviser. She's aware that I volunteer a few hours a week; but apparently, that's not good enough. So, if I did do this placement (which I will refuse to do) that means that someone is getting free labour and that the place I volunteer, will lose a member of staff for several weeks - on a day we're already short-staffed.

 

But havn't Sainsburys now pulled out of this scheme ?

[Nystagmite]

Think so. That was a few weeks ago.

[jadeybags]

I think if these placements are for the right amount of hours to mean that they earn at least min wage. If someone gets 30 quid a week JSA or whatever it is, then they should only be made to work enough hours to normally earn 30 quid. Simples.

[silv.surfer]

antone

 

I am assuming you didnt bother to read the rest of my Post although it was basically addressed to Nystagmite - If you dont call that Community Spirit I dont know what you would call it - We have made every effort to include them but They just cant be bothered. The only one that came forward was an Acute Dyslexic Vunerable Adult in that Block who was integrated immediately. He now knows that he can go to 4 people that are happy to help him with read letters and anything else.

[Nystagmite]

How do you know they can't be bothered? Have you asked them? And being young doesn't equal fit either.

 

Agreed, Jadeybags. That's the only way I'd be happy to do something like this. Not 30 hours for JSA.

[andydd]

How do you know they can't be bothered? Have you asked them? And being young doesn't equal fit either.

 

Agreed, Jadeybags. That's the only way I'd be happy to do something like this. Not 30 hours for JSA.

 

Well..especially 30 hours for JSA for a no-skills job such as shelf stacking, I'm working now but I'd maybe contemplate a week or so working for 'free' if I would learn something helpful to my career (I work in IT) if I were to be unemployed.

 

Andy

[antone]

antone

 

I am assuming you didnt bother to read the rest of my Post although it was basically addressed to Nystagmite - If you dont call that Community Spirit I dont know what you would call it - We have made every effort to include them but They just cant be bothered. The only one that came forward was an Acute Dyslexic Vunerable Adult in that Block who was integrated immediately. He now knows that he can go to 4 people that are happy to help him with read letters and anything else.

 

No, I read your whole post and commend your efforts - they do indeed show community spirit.

 

What I meant was that, if we (that is, society as a whole) treat the unemployed as some sort of underclass of parasitical scroungers, I don't think we then get to act outraged when they don't see themselves as part of our community.

[jadeybags]

How do you know they can't be bothered? Have you asked them? And being young doesn't equal fit either.

 

Agreed, Jadeybags. That's the only way I'd be happy to do something like this. Not 30 hours for JSA.

 

Nope, there is no way not no how I would work 30 hours a week for JSA. And that has nothing to do with being lazy either, it's about not being a mug! I would work 5 hours a week for 30 quid, & no more. The companies that were willing to go into this farce are dropping like flies anyway.

I like the picture doing the rounds on farcebook of Cameron dressed as Hitler with the caption 'we have vays of making you work'

[osdset]

Tesco have put the ball in the governments court by calling on ministers to ensure those put on schemes attend voluntarily, I will be interested to see if they apply this to the mandatory work activity scheme, with a bit of luck the whole w2w setup will fall over. A4e is being investigated for fraud, I am betting more will follow, the major players in retail are not going to want to be associated with any of this now as mud has a habit of sticking.