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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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dhillcrest v natwest £4800 *** WON ***

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Hello - thanks for all the advice posted - invaluable.


I'm at the point of having just recieved a standard 'not paying up', 'charges are fair' 'blah blah' letter from boreham wood. Am I right in thinking that I should now do the letter before action? Interestingly, I also sent a copy of the refund request and schedule to my branch manager in leeds and have recieved a totally different letter from them (sent via manchester) saying they will look into the complaint and reply by 10th october. I'm going to send the LBA to boreham wood and give my branch time to fomulate a respose which may be different boreham wood I'm hoping (but doubting). Does this seem like a reasonable course of action?


Anyway, The claim is for £4800 not including interest so I'll let you know how I get on - oh and that reminds me, if the small claims court limit is £5000, what would I do if the addition of costs and interest takes me over the £5000? So many questions ...............

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I posted a similar question the other day and received the following answer.


"I've just phoned my local county court to get this clarified, the amount of the total claim including the interest determines which track the claim goes onto. The court fees are apparently not included in the calculation.


So....amount claimed £4800 plus £200.01p interest, would mean fast track"


I also phoned my local county court and got the same reply.

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I've always understood that s69 8% interest is not taken into account when determining which track, but are taken into account when determing court fees, which are £250 over £5000.


But I've seen two instances recently where people claiming charges + interest over the limit have still only been charged £120 and have had £130 returned to them. I think it must be a case of different court staff interpreting and applying rules differently.


Did you just mention interest or did you specifically ask about Section 69 8% interest?

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My precise words, which I prepared prior to asking the question was:


"I appreciate the maximum claim value is £5000 to be allocated to a Small Claims Track but is that including Interest and Court Charges or excluding Interest and Court charges?


e.g If claim is say for £4800 and interest amounts to £500 and Court Costs £120 ~ total is of course over £5000 but is that permissible?


Can you please clarify"

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Have phoned local court. £4800 + s69 interest, is it small and claims? Initially, it was a positive yes, but then went and enquired and came back not quite so sure with no definitive answer and said utimately it would be up to the judge. Yeah,well we know that!!! Other that that not much help.

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Hi everyone -just a coulple of confusions I have. I am about to send an LBA having had the original request for £4700 predictably denied. By my calculations, the interest on top of the £4700 takes me to £5200 which is of course over the £5000 threshold. The interest has been calculated of the spreadsheet at 8% of the charges made - is this going to be the the correct figure for the interest on my overdraft? Or is that 8% calculated on the spreadsheet a different figure. I'm confusing myself - I'll simplify;

I used the spreadsheet, total charges came to £4700, including the interest it comes to £5200 - Are these the figures I should enter on my LBA?


Also, whats the best address to send an LBA to? - Borehamwood?


thanks to all the posters and mods on here, you're all angels.



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Oh I forgot - is it in my interest to 'compromise' and make a claim for just £4700 and not to include the interest as an 'act of good will' just to avoid any complications of it exceeding the £5000 threshold or would that just look weak and possibly weaken my case?

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when sending LBA the 8% interest should not be added that only gets added at court stage

NatWest: Prelim letter sent 29/8

Reply to prelim 2/9

LBA letter sent 4/9

N1 filed at Court 20/9

Notice of issue deemed to be served 2/10

Natwest filed acknowledgement 16/10

Natwest have until 30/10 to file defence

Defence received 26/10

AQ received 2/11

Cobbetts made offer of £2600 2/11

AQ filed 16/11

Court date received 23/11

Court date set for 17/1/2007

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Right, I'm getting really confused by the interest issue on the LBA. On the standard LBA letter there are spaces ('xxxx's) to include the amount of charges to be claimed for 'plus' the 'xxxxx' for overdraft interest. Am I right in thinking that the amount of interest (@ 8%) calculated on the spreadsheet is NOT the same as the overdraft interest? If it isn't, how do I calculate the amount of overdraft interest that is applicable? Sorry to be a bore because I know these questions have been asked a thousand times but sometimes they only make sense when you ask a direct question. Sorry for my confusion.


onward and upward

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Hello Jones,


Have been looking into this whilst calculated my claim.


My total overdraft charges were £270 on a £2790 claim. I've taken the decision not to claim for these as it it would quite time consuming to calculate what is a legitmate charge and what isnt.


You'd have to work out for how long you were over your overdraft limit, whether that this was due to the fact that you were taken over the limit by other 'charges' and calculate it propotionatly to the correct levels of interest charges - and then do this for every charge over the last 6 years.


Not just that, it can see it over complicating matters and opens yourself to a possible dispute in these addtional charges.


Also, best to keep your claim under 5k to allow a cliam through the small claims court.


Hope this helps.


- LBA Sent: 23/10/06

- MCOL Claim Filed: 06/11/06

- Claim Acknowledged: 14/11/06

- Defence Received: 08/12/06

- Cobbetts AQ Received: 27/12/06


- LBA Sent: 23/10/06

- MCOL Claim Filed: 06/10/06

- Claim Acknowledged: 15/11/06

- Defence Recd/AQ Sent: 06/12/06

- SCM AQ Recd: 15/12/06


- Partial Offer Received with statements: 03/11/06

- Prelim Sent: 07/11/06

- Settled in Full: 17/11/06 :)


- LBA Sent: 23/11/06

- Settled in Full: 21/12/06:)

- Account Closure Notification: 23/12/06


- LBA Sent: 23/11/06

- Partial offer Recd: 25/11/06

- Rejection Sent: 25/11/06

- MCOL Claim Filed: 30/11/06

- Judgment Filed: 04/01/06


- S.A.R Sent: 16/11/06


- S.A.R Sent: 16/11/06

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in your case it would definitely make sense to omit the overdraft interest if it takes your claim over £5000.I left it off my claim because it only came to £37 on a £2500 claim and I just wanted to keep things simple legally!


However the 8% interest added at court stage was nearly £500 and very much worth claiming.


Good luck with your case.


ps i used stuart higley at Borehamwood for my letters and got super fast responses but apparently they have got more unreliable since due to an avalanche of letters!!!:-D

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Hi everyone. Just an update.

I have filled out the moneyclaim form and I'm about to hit submet when I suddenly get a bit scared and feel the need to check a few things out.


Firstly, here's the script from my 'particulars of claim' section and I was hoping some of you good people could check it out.


1. The Claimant has an account 7590503 with the Defendant, opened Octocer 1988 2. Since 01/02/03 the Defendant debited charges and

interest in respect of purported breaches of contract. 3. Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent. 4.Claimant contends: (a) The charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches; (b) The Term permitting the Defendant to levy

such charges is unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law. 5. Claimant claims:

(a) return of the amounts debited of £4354;

(b) Interest per S.69 County Courts Act 1984

of 8% - £586.23 continuing at 8% until judgment or

settlement at a daily rate of £1.09; 6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a

service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act1982. 7. Costs allowed by the Court.


Does that all sound ok?


Secondly, the original schedule of charges I sent to the bank has been changed for the purposes of this claim so that the amount claimed for plus the 8% interest come under the £5000 threshold (4940 to be precise). Originally it came to £5400 but I've removed some of the earlier charges from the schedule I'm about to send. Will the fact that this new schedule is for a lower amount effect the claim in anyway.

Also, including costs the value of the claim is still £5060, over the threshold by £60 (due to the court costs). Is this a problem?


And lastly, is there a rough timescale I can expect from submitting the moneyclaim form to a court date?


So many questions and you've all been so helpful already. Starting to feel guilty.

Best wishes to all.


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1. As I understand it s69 interest is not taken into account for the £5000 limit, but is when calculating court fees.


2. Court fees are discounted from the £5000 limit


3. If you want to file as you suggest, why remove the earlier charges? If you remove the latest charges, they are still available for 6 years for a 2nd claim if need be.


4. Daily rate is just your charges x 0.00022, not charges+ interest so on your prsent figures daily rate is £0.96p


5. Court date will depend partly on how busy your local court is, could be as early as Nov/dec or could be March

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Hi Dave,


You might want to remove your account number from your above post.


Regarding allocation there is always a discretion afforded to the judge in allocating claims. The 5K is simply a guideline rather than a hard and fast rule. You can express your preference for small claims in your allocation questionnaire. Natwest are more likely to want to avoid fast-track than you as fuller disclosure rules exist in the fast track.


Best of luck



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Hi. Further development. Just got a letter from Sue Crompton in Manchester (customer 'care' team) offering me £1127 as opposed to the £4300 asked for. Now I know this is a fairly standard tactic but if I'm being perfectly honest, despite it being a bit against the spirit of the forum, I would be happy with a 'compromise' offer - just not one as low as that. I was thinking more to the tune of £2500.

My question is, has anyone had any luck negitiating these offers?

My inclination is to send back a letter saying that I would be willing to compromise to avoid further hassle blah blah blah but feel that £2500 would be a fairer offer.


I have calculated that, taking the OFT guidelines that £12 consitutes a fair charge into consideration, that reducing each claim in the schedule by £12 would come up with a revised claim of £3200.


Has anyone tried any successful tactics with these offers.


My moneyclaim form is done and I'm ready to hit submit but I have to take the view that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush - I just want to get as big a bird as possible (don't we all).


Any advice at this stage would be hugely welcomed.


cheers for all the help so far.

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they send a cheque, but they seem to be making the cheques out so that you have to pay them into the account that you have claimed the charges back from, they often make an offer before the court stage, but it is for a lot less than you are asking, best to accept the offer as only part payment, and state that you intend to carry on with your claim, if they offer full amount then you can just accept it


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