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HSBC Business LOan CCJ and Marstons Bailiffs


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Hi Everyone

I have spent the morning reading through this website and I can't believe I didn't find this site a lot sooner.

My problem is this, I have a mortgage with UCB home loans (Nationwide) I also have a secured business loan with HSBC, unfortunately I had to close my business down due to a disagreement with my franchisor, I had to fight quite a long legal battle which I eventually won, but left me with no cash flow. But that's another story.

HSBC are now taking me to court on Monday 10th Jan 2011 for repossession of my house against non payment of the secured loan.

Now I have been fighting HSBC, very politely, since 2008. I have been asking for all my documents etc "proof that they own the promissory note etc" and are the legal owners of the debt.

I have even issued them with an affidavit and an opportunity to cure. All ignored.

I even repeated the paperwork process to their solicitors Wragge&Co, again all ignored.

Then I sent HSBC £10 and have asked for an SAR, they have cashed the cheque but I still have received nothing. In fact we have a letter refusing to give us thie required information without us getting a court order asking for the info. This was back in Oct 2010.

 

I have also sent in a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Still waiting for a reply.

 

I have requested that the case be deferred and paid my £40 but have received a letter this morning telling me that the case must go ahead and the court will consider the application for adjournment at the hearing.

 

Not only am I asking for proof of ownership of the debt but HSBC have added extortionate charges onto my account from when they were running my invoice finance, in fact HSBC failed in their duty to collect all my final invoices in when I closed my business down, approx £40k, which would have knocked off a large proportion of my debt.

 

My wife and I are now worried sick that we will lose our home or be made to sell by the bank. There would be very little if any equity left in the property if we were made to sell so we can't see any benefit to HSBC forcing the issue. We have always stated that we are willing to pay anything we lawfully owe once we have received the requested information.

 

Has anyone had a similar experience or any advice to give us that we can perhaps use to our advantage on Monday?

 

Anything would be appreciated!!!

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Hi

Well I managed to persuade the judge to give us some time to gather evidence, much to Wragge & Co's solicitors disgust. We now have 21 days to put forward our defence, HSBC/Wragge&Co then have 21 to respond then we have another hearing, so at least we have some time.

However, the judge did not seem to interested that HSBC have ignored my SAR ? He wanted to know what specific information I required from the SAR, my response was that I needed as much info as possible etc, not just statements. For some reason the judge was very cagey and was quizing me with regards to what information we required!!!

 

Anyway, HSBC still have not given me the SAR, has anyone any ideas as to how I can force their hand for this please? They have cashed my cheque but just ignored my request.

 

I have tried the Financial Ombudsman but they seem next to useless.

 

Once again any advice would be gratefully received.

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How long ago did they cash your cheque, not an expert but I do believe they have 40 days to comply with the request. If they dont comply I would imagine you could go to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Do you have any proof other than the date they cashed the cheque? Legally they are bound to send you this information.

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Hi Sigsue

HSBC actually cashed my cheque back in October 2010.

The judge didn't seem too concerned that they have ignored my request and was more interested in what specific information I wanted, other than statements.

The Financial Ombudsman just don't seem to do anything either, I wrote to them back in December 2010, still not heard a thing from them?

Apart from going to HSBC's head office in person and trying to get the SAR I am at a loss as what to do next.

Anyone had a similar experience ?

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Hi

The original business loan was for £105k. We were paying £1,800 pcm which we paid for just over 2 years before we had to close our company down due to a franchise disagreement (another story). The amount they say we now owe is £170,000 which includes £20 a day interest since the account went into dispute in 2006. They have also decided to put onto this account the interest and charges that occurred because HSBC refused to collect our invoices in when we closed down. HSBC had been acting as our invoice financing company for approx 3 years and we did not have any bad debtors at all, they simply didn't bother to collect and just charged us the £30k they should have collected in on our behalf.

This really is a complicated case that HSBC just want to bulldoze ahead and push us out of the way and bury us in the process.

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Right so since 2006 the original 105,000 has accumulated a further 65,000 over 4 years,well there,s one reason you should mention why you want the S.A.R,s information to find out how on earth H.S.B.C have arrived at this figure,second,you want to know just how much in charges has been added to your account,you also need all correspondence entered into by yourself and the bank regarding letters,phone calls and any meetings with your local manager,also the terms and conditions of the loan agreement as there will be information contained within this info that will be needed for your defence.This is your right under dislosure laws with regard to the data protection act and failiure of the data controller at H.S.B.C to comply with your request should be forwarded to the I.C.O. Failure to respond to a s.a.r is a breach of the data protection act,it is an offence.If they fail to comply after informing the I.C.O then you will need to go to court and get a court order served on H.S.B.C for the information you need,ie the s.a.r disclosure.Finally they have had the tenner its time they coughed up.

 

The next point i shall come to is the arrears,they cannot add charges to the arrears to artificially inflate the arrears figure,if this is what they have been doing its a big no no and against F.S.A rules.It would be handy to know what the true arrears figure stands at at this point,and related to this point if they were managing your invoice finance

why didnt they call in what was owed instead of racking up a further 30k to your account increasing the intrest and charges even further,this is another point that needs to be stressed when you go to court.

 

The next point i want to make is watch Wragge and CO they are very very sharp Wragges and myself have past history and although i say it through gritted teeth they are good,there will be no point in going into this next hearing without your defence in order because you will get torn to pieces i can assure you.Remember if you get this judge next time,we already know he,s lender friendly,if he asks you again why you need the s.a.r you need to bring up the points already mentioned and not just a vague reply.I think that by asking for proof that they are the legal owners of this secured loan your barking up the wrong tree somewhat,this is a repossession case were talking about so you need to put together a repayment plan for the arrears going forward,unless you have a suspicion at the very least of some wrong doing in terms the drawing up of terms and conditions,i would be concentrating on my plan to repay because thats what the judge will be concerned with and we can help you with this.Furthermore i would be looking at getting an agreement in place at the hearing and then reclaiming charges added to the account since 2006.

 

You have a case in terms of claiming back their unfair charges however you must not loose sight of what this hearing will be concerened with and it will be all about the arrears and your proposal to pay them and your ability to pay going forward.that is all the court will be concerened about at this time however much of the above will form your defence and i think you should be ok but you must be focused on the main issue at the moment which is keeping the roof over your head.

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Thanks newstarter, advice much appreciated.

Do you think I should send another letter to HSBC asking for the SAR and informing them that if they do not comply then I will be informing the I.C.O or should I go straight to the I.C.O now ?

I am just thinking that if I write to HSBC again before submitting my defence etc then they may just forward my letter straight to Wragge!!! and as you say they are good and will no doubt have a standard get out clause?

My take on proceedings is that the judge wants me to list all the relevant info I require from the bank instead of asking for the SAR, I wonder why?

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Yes it does make you wonder doesn,t it,however a S.A.R is your right under the data protection act so you have no need to justify this request to anyone.Iwould write to the data controller at H.S.B.C giving them 7 days to supply you with the information request if that does not work then its time to inform the I.C.O.Wragge,s are good but i beat them and so can you,H.S.B.C are not holding back on the S.A.R for nothing me thinks they have more than a little to hide

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You should contact the Information Commissioner's office in respect of the unfulfilled SAR. HSBC had 40 days from receipt of your request to comply, which they obviously havent done.

 

However, as sillygirl has said, now this is subject to litigation, then requests for information should be made under CPR. CPR31.14 for any document mentioned in the POC and CPR18 for INFORMATION only.

 

Use the links below to see how you can make good use of the CPR.

 

CPR31.14 request in the first post of the link below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage

 

CPR31.14 v CPR18

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here

 

How to start off if you are being sued.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?241827-Legal-Action-how-to-start-off.-IMPORTANT-IF-YOURE-BEING-SUED

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here

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OK, have gone just a little bit brain dead now, information overload!!!

So do you think that I should NOT send in another letter to the data controller at HSBC demanding my SAR that I paid and applied for in OCT 2010 ?

If not then you say I should send in a requests for information under CPR. CPR31.14 for my documents or do I send in a request under CPR18 ? (sorry still trying to get my head around the difference) and who do I send this to ? The HSBC data controller ?

I have another 17days before I need to send in my defence to the courts detailing each document I am asking for and why I am asking for the specific document. Then Wragge&Co/HSBC have another 21 days to send the requested information back before another court date is set. My thinking is that they will just stall on supplying all the documents if I do request them via the SAR and/or the CPR31.14 / CPR18 route.

Also where do we stand if they do not supply all the relevant docs?

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  • 1 year later...

Hi

I wonder if anyone can offer me a little bit of advice please?

 

To cut a long story short back in 2007 I had to close my company down, I didn't go bankrupt, which in hindsight I think I should have done. However, I was left with an invoice finance bill with HSBC of approx £17k (they refused to collect in my outstanding invoices, but thats another story). They eventually called in Marstons who visited my house took an inventory etc added charges etc and frightened the life out of my wife and children.

I agreed to pay them £200 a month and have been doing so ever since then. My questions are:

A: Am I within my rights to ask for regular statements and breakdown of all costs including original contract etc?

B: I am now out of work and really struggling to pay the £200 pcm that I have been paying, how do I go about asking for a reduction in my monthly payments? Do I approach Marstons or do I apply via the courts?

Thank you in advance for any advice offered as I do not want to go about this the wrong way as I know these people can be ruthless.

Many thanks

Determined1

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I assume what you have is just an agreement beteen yourselves to pay the sum outstanding. To pay at £200 per month for £17k plus charges etc will take some 10+ years to pay off. have you had a breakdown of any charges that Marstons have applied to your account? In normal cases I would suggest you ask for a breakdown from them but in your case I suggest you submit a SAR to them - costs £10 and see what comes back.

 

You can ask them for a reduction but would imagine they will refuse. You can apply to the Court Form N245 is what you need. If on a low wage or certain Benefits you may not have to pay the fee and should look at Form EX160 for this. Both forms available online via HMCTS website.

 

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Did the bailiff ever actually come into your home?

 

Was a levy made on goods? If so, what was levied?

 

When was the initial contact with Marston Group?

 

Have you contacted the creditor to establish from them how much has been paid over by the High Court Enforcement company?

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Hi

Thank you for your replies.

Marstons did come into the house while my wife was here, she thought that she had to let them in. We now know different but back then we were very worried.

They took an inventory as I remember and then threatened to come back in a few days to collect the goods. We then managed to hold that off with the offer of £200pcm payment. This was back in March 2008. We struggled to keep up these payments and further threats were made until August 2008 when we commenced payments again. We have had no further contact with Marstons at all.

Will they be acting on behalf of HSBC (Invoice Finance) or will they have just purchased the debt and are just normal debt collectors? I have asked this question but I am always ignored.

What will I gain by submitting a SAR to them?

I have a notice of seizure from March 2008 with the total costs as follows:

Judgement Debt: £15,946.52

Judgement Costs: £912.41

Execution Costs: £101.75

Interest: £34.40

Officers Fees: £1,536.68

Total Levy: £18,081.76

 

I have called them yesterday and asked for a statement which they did not like, the Marstons rep was very off indeed. I also asked about reducing my payments and was told to submit an income/outgoings sheet for them to consider.

Any thoughts or advice that anyone can give me would be greatfully received.

Many thanks.

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If the writ has not been renewed each year then this situation would be VERY SERIOUS indeed. Have you had confirmation that the writ has not been renewed and if so, who confirmed this to you.

 

Ask Marston's this morning for confirmation of the PRECISE DATES that the judgment creditor renewed the writ EACH year.

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If the writ has not been renewed each year then this situation would be VERY SERIOUS indeed. Have you had confirmation that the writ has not been renewed and if so, who confirmed this to you.

 

Ask Marston's this morning for confirmation of the PRECISE DATES that the judgment creditor renewed the writ EACH year.

 

For clarity TT serious for OP or Marstons? , I am thinking it would be detrimental to Marstons.

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Hi

Just spoke to a Marstons agent:spy: and he informed me that he has no dates showing on his systemfor 2008, 2009 but he has a date in 2010 when the solicitors applied to the courts to have the writ renewed 14/4/2010. Nothing for 2011.

 

Does this have any bearing on my rights etc? I am not sure of the legalities involved.

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