IB to ESA migration

[**Margaret**]

:reallymadwoman:

 

Given that the eventual outcome of my reassessment will affect my family, we have discussions about what to do for the best in our house as well. Apart from anything else I need my daughter to keep the technology working and my husband to courier everything to the Post Office.

 

It has occurred to me that in the midst of my complaining about complaining to the Astressors I forgot to ask if there was a hint of anything useful in their response. Now I understand that it's entirely your fault you've been waiting nine months for a messical, entirely your fault that DWATO don't have enough recording machines or a ground floor assessment centre near your home, but praps they gave you a clue as to what they're going to do about it

 

Take care of yourself, Margaret.

Edited October 24, 2012 by **Margaret**

[reallymadwoman]

It has occurred to me that in the midst of my complaining about complaining to the Astressors I forgot to ask if there was a hint of anything useful in their response. Now I understand that it's entirely your fault you've been waiting nine months for a messical, entirely your fault that DWATO don't have enough recording machines or a ground floor assessment centre near your home, but praps they gave you a clue as to what they're going to do about it [/color][/size][/font]

 

Take care of yourself, Margaret.

 

You are spot on that it is completely my fault that they don't have enough equipment or suitable premises - if I could manage stairs and wasn't demanding a recording there would be no problem at all! As to what they are going to do, who knows? I certainly don't because they haven't told me, but perhaps that's because they don't know either.

 

We are currently drafting our response to their response - this could go on forever!

[**Margaret**]

:reallymadwoman:

 

'...... that's because they don't know either!'

 

Another comment that's probably spot on. Could offer a few suggestions but doubt the Astressors'd like em; might dent their obscene profits. Can't be having that now can we?

 

Was sort of hoping against hope they'd be sensible and give you some inkling cos I know you want it over and done with, but clearly twas too big an ask.

 

Take care, Margaret.

[reallymadwoman]

Response and request for review by a senior management sent yesterday. When that comes back in equally patronising and avoiding terms, it's on to an independent review which could apparently take months. in the meantime, I'm still waiting for another appointment - number 5 and counting.

[reallymadwoman]

In their response to my complaint ATOS said they had contacted my GP and been told a few things which I wasn't very happy about, so I raised the subject when I saw my GP today.

 

There is absolutely no record on my file of any contact from ATOS and my GP denies categorically that he would have ever said what he is supposed to have said, and I believe him. Specifically, he says he would never discuss a patient on the phone with someone he knows nothing about without my express written permission, and there is no copy of my authority anywhere on record - he went through my paper file whilst I was there, though we were both aware he was going through the motions as he'd be very unlikely to forget a conversation like that.

 

My GP is furious and has asked for a copy of ATOS' letter - he quite rightly thinks they could easily have destroyed our doctor/patient relationship - and I'm quite willing to let him handle this complaint. I think ATOS may have seriously outdone themselves this time, especially since the GP is now very firmly on my side and rapidly getting up to speed on ESA criteria. I am expecting a very supportive letter from him shortly.

[**Margaret**]

:Hiya reallymadwoman:

 

You heading for another sleepless night? What you've described is offensive n underhand even by the Astressors standards, which are already lower than the lowest of the low. One of my first thoughts is that the :lie: strengthen the argument for audio recorded messicals.

 

Have a careful re-read of page 19 of an ESA50. (Seem to have spent all day dealing with ESA50s for one reason or another) Does what the Astressors have written come under 'info which is needed to deal with this claim for benefit'? They've decided on a home visit cos they haven't got a chair accessible centre. You want an audio recorded messical. Not sure either issue has any relevance to eligibility for benefit?

 

Of course the pinocchios could end all this aggro by getting your messical over n done with but as that seems beyond them, good luck to your doc.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited November 1, 2012 by **Margaret**

[fightingback99]

In their response to my complaint ATOS said they had contacted my GP and been told a few things which I wasn't very happy about, so I raised the subject when I saw my GP today.

 

Perhaps not relevant in this instance as your GP didn't give out any info. But when you sign the declaration on page 19 of the ATOS form you give permission for any health care professional advising the DWP ie ATOS permission to contact any doctor gor any information needed to deal with a claim, from any doctor, consultant or professional you've mentioned on your form.

[Zonker]

fightingback you are right, but so is the doctor. Being deligent and making sure he has got a copy of that authorisation prior to discussing confidential details. Thats sorta one of the fundemantals tenemants of being a doctor, confidentiality.

[reallymadwoman]

I would be perfectly happy if ATOS had spoken to my GP and he'd given them his honest opinion etc, what has made us both really really mad is that they say they spoke to him and that he gave his (not in my favour) opinion on a number of matters whereas he has in fact done nothing of the sort. No doubt they have confused me with another 'customer' and it's a one off error that won't happen again.

[reallymadwoman]

Dropped off a copy of ATOS' letter to the GP and letting him deal with that complaint.

 

I'm still waiting to hear from them about both the complaint and the next date for my assessment.

 

In the meantime my GP has arranged an assessment by the Council's occupation health people to see what aids etc I might need. I'm sure this is a good thing, but dealing with ATOS has clearly made me paranoid as I'm worrying that having any particular aid recommended will lead ATOS to believe I no longer have any problems. There's also a bit of the 'aids are for old people' thing going on, but I'll have to get over that. We're also considering hiring a mobility scooter to see how I get on. I promise not to use it to exact revenge for all those pushchairs that have made contact with my ankles over the years.

[**Margaret**]

:Hi reallymadwoman:

 

Wow! Hold onto that doctor (metaphorically). Is he going to take over the complaint for you? Or is he starting another one? Like lots of others, our doc's practice won't have anything to do with DWATO. Unless they've no choice, cos it's via an ESA113.

 

Astressor induced paranoia? Use of aids and appliances has to be reasonable and some activities/descriptors have to be done without help, no matter how many aids you've got.

 

CSE/151/2012 (not yet on the decisions database but can be Googled).

 

And for those who've not seen it CE/1217/2011 which lead to memo DMG 24/12.

Careful with that scooter. Pinocchio'll magic it into a manual chair.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited November 6, 2012 by **Margaret**

[Zonker]

If i read starryeyes right it would appear that even if was reasonable to be assessed with a particular aid for medical reasons, all that could be ignored if that wasnt practical to actually use one. So unless they asked details of your home / access and the like any imagined aid cant be considered.

[reallymadwoman]

:Hi reallymadwoman:

 

Wow! Hold onto that doctor (metaphorically). Is he going to take over the complaint for you? Or is he starting another one? Like lots of others, our doc's practice won't have anything to do with DWATO. Unless they've no choice, cos it's via an ESA113. GP is just complaining about them saying he'd made comments when he's not spoken to them at all, rest of it is still down to me

 

Astressor induced paranoia? Use of aids and appliances has to be reasonable and some activities/descriptors have to be done without help, no matter how many aids you've got. But what ATOS consider reasonable and what is reasonable aren't necessarily the same!

 

CSE/151/2012 (not yet on the decisions database but can be Googled).

 

And for those who've not seen it CE/1217/2011 which lead to memo DMG 24/12.

Careful with that scooter. Pinocchio'll magic it into a manual chair. Exactly what I'm worried about, especially since one of the 'alleged' GP comments I didn't like was the suggestion that I use a wheelchair!

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

Thanks for the cases, will keep a note for the appeal.

[reallymadwoman]

If i read starryeyes right it would appear that even if was reasonable to be assessed with a particular aid for medical reasons, all that could be ignored if that wasnt practical to actually use one. So unless they asked details of your home / access and the like any imagined aid cant be considered.

 

From what I understand if for example you could use a wheelchair to cover the 200 metres or whatever you will get no points for mobility whether or not you actually have a wheelchair. Technically you would have to be physically able to use a wheelchair, but ATOS are probably quite happy to leave it to you to prove to the tribunal why you can't use one.

[Zonker]

Yes i tend to agree reallymadwoman. Theyll assume and upto you to disprove. Looks like in future on esa forms youll have to say imagined aids cant be considered for pratical reasons x y z. That should then put the onus back onto them to prove otherwise.

[estellyn]

Yes i tend to agree reallymadwoman. Theyll assume and upto you to disprove. Looks like in future on esa forms youll have to say imagined aids cant be considered for pratical reasons x y z. That should then put the onus back onto them to prove otherwise.

 

Yes, I did this on my ESA50, and they accepted that a wheelchair was unsuitable, so definately worth trying.

[reallymadwoman]

Yes, I did this on my ESA50, and they accepted that a wheelchair was unsuitable, so definately worth trying.

 

Unfortunately it's now so long since I filled in my ESA50 that everything has changed.

[Nystagmite]

Yes i tend to agree reallymadwoman. Theyll assume and upto you to disprove. Looks like in future on esa forms youll have to say imagined aids cant be considered for pratical reasons x y z. That should then put the onus back onto them to prove otherwise.

 

Would you have to provide evidence, instead of just saying "I have severe back issues and can't sit in a wheelchair long enough to self propel 50m"? I was always told to write on DLA forms why aids don't work. They then replied with "using aids, you can communicate".

[reallymadwoman]

If the assessments were fair then you wouldn't need to prove anything because it would be obvious why you couldn't, for example, use a wheelchair. I have proven arthritis in my shoulder and severe nerve damage in both hands plus, to put it bluntly, I'm too heavy. However, I'm fully expecting the wheelchair thing to come up.

 

From the cases quoted earlier in the thread they should not only consider if you can use an aid, but also if it's been prescribed or recommended, if you have the aid and if it's even practical for you to have it - the case they were talking about was a wheelchair one, but they hadn't taken in to account that the claimant lived in a flat without a lift, so where would they leave the wheelchair?

[Zonker]

From the cases quoted earlier in the thread they should not only consider if you can use an aid, but also if it's been prescribed or recommended, if you have the aid and if it's even practical for you to have it - the case they were talking about was a wheelchair one, but they hadn't taken in to account that the claimant lived in a flat without a lift, so where would they leave the wheelchair?

 

Thats my understanding the, real world praticalities and if its medically recommended to use one.

[worried33]

From what I understand if for example you could use a wheelchair to cover the 200 metres or whatever you will get no points for mobility whether or not you actually have a wheelchair. Technically you would have to be physically able to use a wheelchair, but ATOS are probably quite happy to leave it to you to prove to the tribunal why you can't use one.

 

I will point out when I attended my medical, I brought the aids with me I was told to use (not a wheelchair) and explained vocally as well as in writing that I was told a wheelchair is not practical for me. I believe ATOS did accept this as I struggle to see where else I would have got a lot of points from, maybe a couple of 3pt descriptors but not all 15.

[fightingback99]

If the assessments were fair then you wouldn't need to prove anything because it would be obvious why you couldn't, for example, use a wheelchair. I have proven arthritis in my shoulder and severe nerve damage in both hands plus, to put it bluntly, I'm too heavy. However, I'm fully expecting the wheelchair thing to come up.

 

The shoulder and hand info should be sufficient reason to satsify why you can't use a wheelchair even for the Atossers idiots.

 

With the theoretical wheelchair, they don't care whether you have one, can get one, where you'd keep it, or how you'd cart it on a bus or train each time you went out if you don't have a car or drive. But if there's a reason why someones's upper strength isn't suitable to self propel themslves in wheelchair they have to rule the wheelchair out as a mobility solution. That includes things like cardiac , lung capacity or in your case hand and joint problems.

 

Don't give up on the claim, you've gone too far down the road to let their admin inefficiency win the day. Have to say it looks like the ATOS doctor who first evaluated your form to decide whether you should have a face to face assessment or not , didn't bother to read it.

[reallymadwoman]

Right, I've really lost patience with ATOS. Still no appointment and they're now ignoring my emails.

 

I've considered contacting my MP but he's proved to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the past - toes the party (Conservative of course) line to the letter and doubt he'd consider criticising one of their buddies. Can I insist that he intervene, or is there some other way I can get ATOS to do something? Would contacting DWP be of any help? Any other suggestions?

 

I'm even willing to go public if necessary. I've totally had enough of this after yet another sleepless night but I don't want to throw in the towel before I've done everything possible to at least get ATOS a good telling off. I can't prove that the stress has contributed to my recent severe decline in health, but it's certainly not helping.

 

And on a completely different subject, I'm still waiting to hear about my blue badge application - how long should that take? (Application direct to the council, not via High Rate Mobility, heard nothing since the form and documents were sent in.) No blue badge means I have to have a taxi to the GP surgery even though it's only 200 yards down the road, but luckily I know a very accommodating dispatcher since there's not many taxis would do such a short journey.

 

Having a rubbish day after a rubbish night - I'm not even dressed yet and may not bother. Not a good sign.

[Dilizjo]

Hi RMW

 

Please do contact your MP and get him involved, I did mine and through him I have a letter from Bryan Peryy the National Customer Relations manager for ATOS, still haven't got the letter from DWP that was promised though..... my MP is also one of the ConDems......

 

I have full empathy with the night situation you have:grouphug: and if I hadn't had to go to the assessment this morning think I would still have been in my jimjams as well:-(

[reallymadwoman]

Emailed letter to MP and will await response, if any.

 

Last time we sought his help was when there was a huge delay in paying daughters £30 a week for going to college - can't remember what it was called - MP sympathised and promised it would be sorted by the following year, when of course she would have left. Chocolate fireguard. Let's hope he does better this time.