Barclays PPI - from 1990s

[shaniannie]

Hi

 

After previously believing neither I nor my husband would be silly enough to take out PPI, we've been through some paperwork and realised my husband had indeed taken it out (before I met him).

 

This is on an overdraft facility from November 1991 (80p per month since then!) which he, extremely surprisingly, still has the actual signed paper from Barclays, stating "you have £100 overdraft, we've added 80p per month payment to cover this". It's the type that was half pre-printed, half filled in with pen, with hubby's name, amount etc. As a, then, 17 year old, he was told "this is how it comes, take it or leave it". Funnily enough, until all this PPI business came to light, I never saw fit to question this charge, he actually told me some years ago he had to pay it if he wanted the overdraft.

 

 

Further to this, he has had 4, possibly 5 or even 6 personal loans from Barclays:

 

At least one pre-1997 (bank account statement showing payment of £80 for a loan)

One taken 1997 - have the credit agreement paperwork, showing the loan amount, apr, ppi amount, ppi interest, seperate loan and ppi monthly total, and overall totals.

1999 - policy certificate for ppi on another new loan (which paid off 12 months of previous loan + cash)

2003 - some paperwork showing a new loan with ppi

 

I believe there was another taken out between 1999-2003 at some point, and there were 2 loans pre 1997 but as yet have no paperwork to prove this. (I only met my husband in 2003). All loans would have been in the range of £4k - £9k, so not huge, but not exactly tiny either.

 

There are varifying reasons over the years as to why these policies were mis-sold to my husband, not least the fact that:

 

He was told "if you want the loan this is how much it will be", and was never told it was actually optional, with the benefits never explained to him, the small print never asked about, pre-existing medical conditions never questionned (he was actually born with a severe internal defect for which he has had ongoing hospital care his whole life but was never asked about any health issues), obviously never told he could get policies elsewhere (as in the take it as we're offering or not at all attitude), for many years was self employed, and for one policy, only signed off JSA 2 weeks before getting a loan approved (have the JSA paperwork) where the loan policy stipulates he has to have 12 months continuous employment before he could claim!

 

The ones from 1997 onwards were all sold by the same woman at the bank, in person, whom I believe still works there. Since 2003, we have had 2 personal loans, from Tesco - the first we re-structured after 2 years and have no paperwork to see if PPI was added, and the second, which most definitely has no PPI and we will be loan-free in a few months time when it is paid off (WOOP!)

 

 

My husband called Barclays PPI helpline yesterday, and the fella on the other end of the line seemed pleasant enough, and actually went to have a word with his supervisor when we told him we had some paperwork from 1991. He mentioned about his records showing 1998 onwards.

 

He then said someone will call my husband within 7 days, and we will get a letter of acknowledgment within 7 days, and *something* about 4 weeks.

 

So, I thank you for reading the novel I have written, and shall get on to asking a question! lol

 

What is the path this claim is now likely to take? How do Barclays usually proceed? Would it be a good idea to send an SAR or should we wait and see first? (I don't want to waste £10 if I don't need to, seeing as the gentleman already said he could see from 1998 within 2 minutes on the phone!) edited to add: My husbands still has the same, one and only current account with Barclays that he's had since age 16, where all these loan payments have come from, and where our (Woolwich) mortgage is paid from, if this makes any difference.

 

Many thanks for reading

Edited February 11, 2012 by shaniannie

[dx100uk]

you'll need to take each one as a separate claim unless one loan was use to refinance and close another?

 

there's a ppi link below

 

i'd do some reading

it might well be a good idea to knock up so spreadsheets if you have all the info

 

dx

[shaniannie]

I think most, if not all, were used to refinance each other. This would complicate calculating how much has been paid, wouldn't it? I believe my husband did get "a refund" when he refinanced a loan, but had always described it as "a refund of the interest", which is how he was explained it - and obviously now seems perhaps it was a refund of the front loaded PPI.

 

Are we definitely going to have to fill in those FOS forms?

 

Right now, I have no idea what the total amounts for the loans are. And with the overdraft I would have no idea how to begin a spreadsheet that shows 80 pence a month for over 20 years with the 8% interest!

 

I guess I'll wait for Barclays to get back to us, and once we know their position we'll figure out where to go from there?

[dx100uk]

its not as daunting as it sounds

 

esp if you start discovering refinancing going on

 

rule of thumb of is add another £1k each refinance esp if the loans were several £k in value.

 

migt be an idea to sar them too

 

dx

[shaniannie]

Yikes! I think an SAR is the way to go - I'm assuming this would be useful anyway to calculate whether any settlement figure is accurate, if they do it "no fuss".

 

I'm sure you'll be hearing plenty from me in the coming weeks! Off to look at SAR templates now...

[shaniannie]

Hm, just wondering - hubby was divorced just before I met him and has had no contact with his ex-wife since. Will Barclays refuse to give us *any* of his documents as he used to have a joint account with her and we will definitely not be able to get her signature (not least because we have no idea where she lives!)

[dx100uk]

:lol::lol:

 

dx

[dx100uk]

Hm, just wondering - hubby was divorced just before I met him and has had no contact with his ex-wife since. Will Barclays refuse to give us *any* of his documents as he used to have a joint account with her and we will definitely not be able to get her signature (not least because we have no idea where she lives!)

 

there will be no issue

 

dx

[shaniannie]

Have had a manic week with both of us working and the kids being off school and all that jazz.....

 

We'd heard nothing from Barclays so hubby called them today (quoting the reference number they gave). He was told we'd get something in the post, but they'd got no record of us complaining about loans - only the overdraft ppi! GRRR! I'm sure we'll get that, at some point, but SAR is typed up and ready to go.

 

I'm wondering if someone could give it a quick glance and see if there's anything I should add/remove. I've copied most of the content from other SAR's I've seen.

 

(I added in a couple agreement/policy numbers to show them we do in fact have some of our own old paperwork, to show, possibly, that we do "mean business". Can anyone confirm if this is the right thing to do?)

 

Many thanks!

 

DATAPROTECTION ACT 1998

 

Subject access request

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Name: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Account No’s: Current Account: xxxxxxxxx

including but not limited to: Agreement Number xxxxxxxxxx, Barclayloan Number:xxxxxxxx

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal andfinancial information within your internal record systems with regard topersonal loan accounts and credit cards accounts.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating tomy history with your organization, INCLUDING Loans and other products.Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associatedaccounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the followingfor ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization:

-Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed betweenmyself and your organization, including true copies of any documents you holdin support of the same.

- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my LoanAccounts with your organization.

-Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information includingcopies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing mypersonal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

-Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any otherformat which you have entered into with any individual, organization or thirdparty which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains tome.

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposedof, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or referencesconfirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide suchcertificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer ofyour company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

-Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in adigital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups orother storage devices / locations.

 

I enclose a cheque in the sum of £10 to cover your fee.

 

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIALTELY FORWARD ITTO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

(some of the spacing is dodgy in the quote, but grammatically it's come out fine in the printer letter)

 

And just out of interest, I wonder if someone could help me with the amount of overdraft ppi that may be reclaimable. I can't seem to figure how it would work on the spreadsheet, but £0.80 has been paid every month from November 1991 until today. Thank you! I just tried this on the spreadsheet, and it came up with a total of £354.95 Does this sound about right or have I done something wrong? lol

 

Editing again.... sorry

 

After further reading, I have a question. The final loan my hubby had from Barclays in 2003, which did include PPI, was paid off early in 2004. This was through a personal loan from Tesco (which was later refinanced in 2006, and will be fully repaid this Summer). Will the % of PPI from that final refinanced Barclays loan be subject to reclaiming + the interest we've had to pay a different company (tesco) for the loan?

Edited February 22, 2012 by shaniannie

[WFLOSS]

Hi

Have a look at my thread which involves Masterloans from Barclays dating back several years.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?327285-Barclays-Masterloan-PPI-***-2-Down-1-To-Go-***(3-Viewing)-nbsp

 

You appear to have all the paperwork for all the loans so are in a good position .

 

I had 2 out of 3 upheld but they will only reconsider the earliest loan if I can provide the agreement or policy, which I don't have.

 

One thing to note is that they asked for evidence of employment for the loans before 2001 , which I had and supported my argument that I was in public sector employment.

 

Good luck

 

Regards

W

[shaniannie]

Thanks for your input I'll read your thread now - fore warned is fore armed and all that!

 

We don't have *all* the paperwork - not enough to work out exactly how much the loans were for, what proportion of it was PPI and what was any cash settlement and if any refund of PPI was made, hence the SAR.

 

What we do have is Barclays bank statements dating back to do 1997 showing a monthly payment to Barclayloan, every month (with the omission of one or two lost statements) until 2004, one full loan agreement detailing everything we could wish re: the ppi on it, and a couple of further, dated, PPI "policy certificates" for when new loans were taken out.

 

I'm really crossing my fingers that the SAR will reveal settlement figures, because hubby is 99% certain he never completely finished paying any loan off, and each new loan was taken out to refinance the last loan. When this gets into a sequence of 4-5-6 or more loans, with only the total loan monthly payments to go by I'm getting nervous at working it out!

 

Shani

[shaniannie]

SAR sent in the post this morning... now the waiting game

 

Shani

[shaniannie]

I have a "what if" question, if anyone can help?

 

The last Barclays loan was taken out in 2003. Each loan, dating back to 1997 at least, refinanced the last.

 

Would this mean that should Barclays "play ball" and supply documents for the 2003 loan with the SAR, as it was refinanced from a previous loan, it is likely the whole "chain" of loans' records would also be with it? Or is this wishful thinking on my behalf?

 

tl;dr - Is it a case of if they have one loan agreement in the chain, they'll have them all that's linked?

[dx100uk]

nope

i bet they'll say they have none of em!

 

as the loans were refinanced you will be in for a much greater reclsim that individual ones

unless you got rebates

 

dx

[shaniannie]

Thanks dx

 

I think hubby did get some rebate each time he refinanced, but he was always told it was a refund of interest not yet accrued, but that was added to the start of the loan.

 

I'm about to start the mammoth task of putting all bank statements from 1997 to present in date order in a lever arch file (crossing my fingers for not too many missing months!), so I can start compiling the "evidence" I already have into some sort of readable order... wish me luck! lol

[shaniannie]

OK, going through papers is good!

 

Now, for the moment, forgetting the loans...

 

Hubby's Overdraft Protection - since November 1991 he has been paying £0.80 a month. There are various reasons why this was mis-sold. I just read the T's and C's on the back of the original signed agreement.

 

It states:

 

2. Eligibility

A person shall become insured if:-

..

© he has attained age 18 and has not attained age 65 on the date of his Agreement

....

 

 

On the date this agreement was made - 15th November 1991, hubby was only 17 and was a few months off being 18!

 

Does this make this PPI an automatic mis-sell and I can send completed spreadsheet and FOS questionnaire, and a photocopy of the agreement right now to Barclays?

 

I'll attach the spreadsheet I've made up, if someone could take a look just to make sure I've got it right, I'd be ever so greatful!StatIntSheet v101.xls

[dx100uk]

ideally you should be using the running spreadsheet

 

but you'll have to send them all the statements if they have not got them

else they'll say no paperwork on record

 

now

i'd pdf them and send them on a cheap penstick

 

dx

[shaniannie]

Hm the earliest statements I can find are dated from 20th March 1997, with only the overdraft agreement dated from Nov 1991 saying they will take the OD protection out on the first Friday of every month. I highly doubt they will send me every statement dating back that far

 

No proof on statement = Barclays denying it was paid until March 1997 statement???

 

Do you mean for me to scan all statements I have > present day and stick em on a memory stick, and mail it together with FOS questionnaire and spreadsheet?

 

Many thanks

 

Shani

 

Do you happen to have the link for the spreadsheet I should be using Dx?

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

 

it might be an idea to wait and see what they say

else you've a hell of a lot of work to do.

 

dx

[shaniannie]

You're right, I'm just impatient lol Thanks for your help

 

Seems I've found a spanner in the works though, hubby definitely had 5 Barclays loans, but in the middle of it, he took out a Tesco RBS loan, then went back to Barclays... all around the time he got married/bought a house/got divorced/sold a house within the space of a year, and has little/no paperwork... sigh!

[shaniannie]

... Now I'm definitely doing something wrong with the new spreadsheet! For the overdraft of £0.80 per month, since first payment Dec 1st 1991...

 

The old spreadsheet came up with:

 

Total PPI £194.40

8% simple interest £158.53

 

The running spreadsheet, even though I have only been able to fit up to April 2011 as it ran out of rows... came up with:

Total PPI £187.20

8% simple interest £947.34

(Compound interest - not included in FOS type claims? £2980.65)

 

 

I worked this out with 22% interest rate, although this is probably lower, but agreement states 1.85% per month. Surely I've just messed up somewhere, as this spready is more for CCs?

[dx100uk]

same thing

 

its for PPI redress via the FOS route

 

if you need to add rows

just copy and paste the COMPLETE row at the end again and again

then change the figures in the three 1st rows.

 

and i'm talking about using this with the OD account yes

 

its a sort of revolving credit so this will be the best one to use

 

dx

[shaniannie]

Does this mean I need to put the total in/out of the account each month? (Bearing in mind 9 times out of 10 it was always a credit balance, the OD was rarely used)

 

If this is the case, I completely understand why you said to wait and see what they send me... lol!

 

Also, which interest rate would I need to use? The interest they would have charged on a negative balance (1.85 per month, would that be 22.2 per year or did I work that out wrong?) or would it be the interest on a credit balance in the current account (as you'd know, this would be pitiful).

 

I've copied and pasted cells to the end, which 3 rows do you mean I need to edit figures? Is it changing the formula, from, for example =sum(f18:f251) to =sum(f18:f260) ?

 

Thank you for your patience Dx

 

Shani

Edited February 25, 2012 by shaniannie

[dx100uk]

Does this mean I need to put the total in/out of the account each month? (Bearing in mind 9 times out of 10 it was always a credit balance, the OD was rarely used)

 

yes follow the notes

 

If this is the case, I completely understand why you said to wait and see what they send me... lol!

 

Also, which interest rate would I need to use? The interest they would have charged on a negative balance (1.85 per month, would that be 22.2 per year or did I work that out wrong?) or would it be the interest on a credit balance in the current account (as you'd know, this would be pitiful).

 

22%

 

 

 

I've copied and pasted cells to the end, which 3 rows do you mean I need to edit figures? Is it changing the formula, from, for example =sum(f18:f251) to =sum(f18:f260) ?

 

if you are adding rows because you have runout on the spreadsheet

 

 

 

Thank you for your patience Dx

 

Shani

 

gonna be out till later now, taking special needs lot to shil falls

 

dx

[shaniannie]

Many thanks Dx, enjoy your day!

 

I'll fill in what I can for now, and hopefully fill in the blanks with whatever info they send me in the SAR.

 

Shani