Cabot and Citi Card debt

[andrew1]

A Citi Financial credit card debt got out of hand and was passed to a debt collection agency.

There were numerous late payment fines and charges made

- the debt started acrruing charges at about £350.

 

After various attempts to collect the outstanding sum the charges escalated the debt to £930.

The debt was 'purchased' by Cabot a collection agency that buys debt from big institutions.

 

Debts purchased by firms like this are bought at somewhere between 7% - 12% of the debt value

- in laymans terms that's about £111.00 maximum ( @12% ).

 

They wrote demanding the full amount of £930 and started charging interest @ 12% on the full amount each month I missed a payment.

Now that is rip off and immoral.

How can they justify charging 12% interest on £930 when they only paid £111.00 for it?

 

Also, Debt collection agencies need to prove a default notice has been issued before they can sue you for the debt - without it don't pay em!.

They will also negotiate on the balance you owe for early settlement.

 

Tip: If your debt has been passed to a collection agency always find out if the debt has been purchased by them or are they just acting as an agent

- make sure you get a firm answer,

 

if they purchased it you can start negotiating on the basis they only paid somewhere in the region of 10% of the value for it.

If you have run up charges on the card go to FAQ's and start claiming !!

[Seminole]

It is also worth asking them to supply a true copy of the original signed agreement. You need to request this under Consumer Credit Act and send a postal order (not a cheque if you can avoid it) for £1. The following text is nicked from the debthelpuk forum:

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

The deed of assignment line should only be used if the debt has been purchased by a debt collection agency. If they fail to provide the copy agreement within 12 days then court action can only take place with permission of a judge. After 30 days the creditor commits a criminal offence and can be reported to the OFT and Trading Standards.

 

Cabot are, to it mildly, debt buying parasites who scavenge through the trash of the financial service industry hoping to pick up a few tasty morsels. Challenge everything they do. If you think the debt is statute barred, challenge them to provide that it is isn't. Challenge them to produce a copy of the original agreement. If they start charging interest challenge them to prove that it says they can do this in the original agreement. Above all. if they have purchased a debt which includes penalty charges, challenge them over this. If the debt is actually exceeded by the penalty charges they have levied, go through the process set out on this site and get the excess back.

 

I loathe and detest Cabot and everything they stand for. If anyone is having problems with them, please feel free to pm me as I am more than happy to help.

[andrew1]

I take it you have some experience of Cabot? Anything tastey that might be of interest here? Debt collection agencies were the bain of my life for nearly two years after I borrowed on personal lending/credit cards to try & keep my buisness alive after Sept 11 and I have had many a run in with them. You might stimulate some unsavoury memories for me to include here for the benefit of others!

[alanfromderby]

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

 

 

If they fail to provide the copy agreement within 12 days then court action can only take place with permission of a judge.

 

 

I am just trying to get my head around the position with Debt Collection Agencies and am eager to find the legislation to back up the 12 days.

 

Sec. 77 and 78, say that the documents must be provided within the "prescribed period", and that the debt cannot then be enforced "whilst the default continues", it goes on to state that an offence has occurred after one month.

 

Elsewhere in the CCA it states that: “prescribed” means prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State

 

I would be interested to know where the regulation is on this "prescribed period". I would also be interested to know where the regulation is that requires the DCA to get permission from a judge to proceed with an action if they have missed that 12 days.

 

Any thoughts?

[Seminole]

Dunno but I've asked.

[Seminole]

Here is an answer from the other site:

 

This is a direct quote from Halsbury's Laws of England, and gives the time scales (and the remedies if not complied with.) Courtesy of Rameses

 

"....The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the period of 12 working days after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, must give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,

 

(1) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; (2) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

 

(3) the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due....................

........ If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with the provision he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement, and if the default continues for one month he commits an offence"

 

The offence is punishable on summary conviction by a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale:

 

i.e £2,500

[alanfromderby]

........ If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with the provision he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement, and if the default continues for one month he commits an offence"

 

The offence is punishable on summary conviction by a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale:

 

i.e £2,500

 

Thanks for that - but I am still confused about the 12 days non-compliance. Where does it state that a DCA has to seek the permission of a judge to be able to then continue enforcement?

[andrew1]

Seminole, How does the term " fixed - sum credit " in you post above relate to say a floating and variable credit agreement such as a credit card? Or would the spending limit ie £1000 be the fixed sum?

[Seminole]

Seminole, How does the term " fixed - sum credit " in you post above relate to say a floating and variable credit agreement such as a credit card? Or would the spending limit ie £1000 be the fixed sum?

 

Yes, that's correct.

 

I'm still waiting on confirmation on Alan's second point.

[alanfromderby]

The same applies for s.77 and s.78, one is for fixed and the other is for floating.

[Seminole]

Thanks for that - but I am still confused about the 12 days non-compliance. Where does it state that a DCA has to seek the permission of a judge to be able to then continue enforcement?

 

OK I've not had this confirmed. All I can say that I've seen it posted several times elsewhere. The view amongst those I've asked is that the court would want to know why the claimaint hadn't complied within the prescribed timescale and that unless they had a very good explanation, the judge would take a very dim view of them.

[funkyparott]

There is a way that a private individual can commence a prosecution in the Criminal Law Courts against a company.

 

I will need to check up on this.

 

I can recall someone doing similar, then CPS stepped in and dis-continued it.

 

FP

[Eduin]

Bank of Scotland use Blair Oliver Scot - BOS ( bank of scotland!)

 

It's not a coincidence. Blair Oliver Scott *ARE* Bank of Scotland.

 

Regards,

Eduin

[seylectric]

I've been reading this with interest as i've had problems with Cabot. They apparently purchased a debt from Barclaycard (Barclaycard haven't informed me of this) and last time I checked both Barclaycard AND Cabot had the debt shown as two seperate debts on my Equifax file.

 

I haven't had the time to deal with it, in the meantime I've told Cabot to take me to court or sod off. Not heard from them in over a month now, will have to find the time to sort my credit reference file out though, lots of similar problems with accounts showing as defaulted where I consider them to be in dispute.

 

Some great ammo on here now, please keep us informed.

[seylectric]

What did the CSA say?

 

The reason I ask is I phoned them twice (and left a message) about the behavour of their members Phoenix Commercial Collections who act as bailiffs for Blackpool council for the collection of unpaid council tax/parking ticket fines, and they break a whole list of CSA's rules. The CSA never bothered to phone me back.

[andrew1]

I was told by a Director DCA 'friend' - ( I have some strange friends!) that Cabot never sue! Now, never say never but telling them to sod off might be the right thing to do! I just got a letter from them telling me they MAY sue for an old Citi Finance credit card most of which has been made up of late payment charges etc. I might tell them to sod off too.... I was also told they rarely get the information regarding any defaults which have been registered on the debt therefore giving them no hope of suing you anyway. What fun!

[seylectric]

I've never been taken to court by a debt collection agency yet, I've often found that the best thing to do is to either completely ignore everything they send you (they probably eventually think you have moved on).

 

Alternatively tell them that you refuse to deal with or discuss the matter with a third party under any circumstances and will not repsond to any more correspondence from them BUT will reply to any court claim with a massive counterclaim and report them for harrassment blah blah, and given that they know they have limited powers anyway they usually give up.

 

Haivng seen this site this though I'm now going to start fighting back, starting with asking ALL my creditors to either take the matter to court or to remove the file from my credit reference file until such time that the matter is settled to my satisfaction either in court or otherwise.

[andrew1]

I've just sent off the LBA to Cabot because they have failed to respond to my DPA request - that should eb interesting!

[ivorbiggun]

Cabot are based in Kings Hill near West Malling in Kent. My parents are being sent letters by Cabot. Cabot threaten home visits and despite my parents living only 3/4 mile from their offices, they've never had anyone turn up.

 

On a side point Cabot are advertising in recruitment pages for Tracing Agents who use sophisticated computer databases and the electoral roll to track down debtors.

[seylectric]

In the one and only conversation I did have with Cabot the rather snotty woman on the other end told me "Whether you agree with it (the debt) or not you will have to pay it". I told her I didn't and I wouldn't.

[panther12]

My Barclaycard debt was passed to Cabot and then to Global Debt Recovery Limited who really are lower than low. The debt was statute barred but I thought I'd slap them around a bit before showing my trump card. I asked for all information relating to the alleged debt but they refused to supply me with any information except the pay up or else letters. They are a member of the Credit Services Association (http://www.csa-uk.com) so I made a complaint for breach of the CSA code of practice.

 

Global the lying **** told the CSA that they did send me all the information requested regarding the debt, but they advised the CSA that the collection process has been suspended on the account and no further action has been taken.

[seylectric]

More advice will follow I'm sure, but make a note of all phone calls (times, dates etc.) and letters they send you. Tell them in writing that you are not willing to be intimited by continuous phone calls and that you want them to stop calling you immediately, and if they fail to act upon your request that they will be reported for a breach of The Wireless Telecommunications Act and you will reques that they are disconnected.

 

I deal with most DCA's by telling them that I do not under any circumstances deal with a third party and that any further letters will be either returned or destroyed unread. I also tell them that any county court claim will be vigoriously defended and a substantial counterclaim lodged for the illegal harrassment and distress they have caused. In over ten years not one DCA has taken me to court using this method.

 

Hope this helps, some legal quotes would be nice though.

[Tygermoth]

posted in error and removed.

[andrew1]

You sound like one of these banks... I set up the original thread and you haven't asked me!!! - obviously didn't get your letter!

[Tygermoth]

Please see PMs Andrew1.

 

Regards

 

Tyger