Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[Invalidation]

Just a point but on the ATOS pages about recording for ESA it states that they are worried about its use for 'malicious purposes'

Posting a recording on Youtube must surely be 'Public Interest' and simply posting it without comment could not be called malicious.

[Guest]

Am not being funny but how can anything that is done properly and conducted in the proper manner, be in any way used "malisciously" .... the only comeback on atos would be if clearly the assessment report didn't match the recording in that the claimant had been mis-quoted and or the report "doctored" to suit the result atos wanted.

 

They can roast in hell for all I care....I will record and be damned. This has to be fought or we have had it.

[Nystagmite]

I'm wondering the same thing, Ruby, It's not as if people are getting their assessments recorded, posting them online and saying "this is what happened in my assessment" and naming the person assessing them.

 

A recoding is classed as a reasonable adjustment under the Equalities Act. I don't understand why Atos are so against it. I've had to record various things and have had myself recorded for training purposes. (the joys of seeing a trainee GP!) No-one has objected, ever.

[Guest]

I think atos are shooting themselves in the foot if they refuse or "worry" about this, seems common sense to me that if you have nothing to hide why would you worry? I have nothing to hide, my illnesses are genuine, a recording can work for both sides, any "actors" would possibly be caught out, or contradict themselves, the thing is atos don't NEED to prove anything as DWP believes them regardless.......so its only the claimant that gains from the recordings......tough!!! we have to keep this right and use it. If we don't then we may as well all roll over and give in or die. They are hoping/trying to dictate to us and deny us this .......WHY??? is the big question. DWP are quick to "out" benefit cheats, I have seen footage on the news of people dancing, walking etc who have claimed not to be able to do so.

[nolegion]

As regards WCAs, I think there may be a case for:"Don't panic Captain Mainwaring" – at least not quite yet.

 

From an alleged starting point, according to the DWP, of claimants saying they wanted a recording" once or twice a day", the DWP has now admitted that over 2000 requests for a recording were received in the 12 months from 01 03 12; and, it claims, so far only 9 such requests havebeen refused – all in July last year.

 

July\August 2012 was clearly the point at which some jumped up pen-pusher finally realised that announcing one thing to parliament (Grayling, Feb, 2012) and flagrantly doing something different on the ground wasn't going to work very well.

 

Since then, at least so far as I can surf, I note NO cases, of people who have stood their ground and insisted, being refused the'service'.

 

It is disgraceful – enormously stressful - that people should have to fight for the right, but this thread testifies that holding out for it prevails, even if there remain claimants here whose reports of finally getting a recorded WCA I await with considerable interest,

 

Until the contrary is proven, I say insist on having your WCA recorded; but I say that t with a wretched, grossly inequitable, proviso i.e. that you can afford the delay in being assessed. If not, record covertly.

 

As regards the new PIP assessments, the situation, it seems to me, is (yet) more grave and, at best, hangs in the balance just now. Despite Capita having said in its bid documentation that it would be prepared to offer a recording service, the DWP is not permitting this for either Atos or Capita.

 

At the same time, all the indications are that any attempt to record PIP assessments OVERTLY by a claimant will be met by the objection that their equipment does met the 'required standards', which are totally unaffordable by the vast majority of us (£1400 - £1900).

 

If the DWP doesn't back down, right now, the ONLY realistic option for claimants of PIP will be to record COVERTLY. PIP starts 02 04 13, and I don't believe in the Easter Bunny.

Edited March 24, 2013 by nolegion

[**Margaret**]

Disgraceful DWATO

 

#10 of;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?385175-Are-ATos-reliable-when-it-comes-to-recorded-WCAs/

 

Twas incredibly stressful but Shatos stopped short of 'force' or threat to her benefit. Neither have they returned her case to Jobcentreplus for failure to attend/submit. We checked! Always wise to be one step ahead, then confirm everything in writing!

 

Margaret.

[worried33]

As regards WCAs, I think there may be a case for:"Don't panic Captain Mainwaring" – at least not quite yet.

 

From an alleged starting point, according to the DWP, of claimants saying they wanted a recording" once or twice a day", the DWP has now admitted that over 2000 requests for a recording were received in the 12 months from 01 03 12; and, it claims, so far only 9 such requests havebeen refused – all in July last year.

 

July\August 2012 was clearly the point at which some jumped up pen-pusher finally realised that announcing one thing to parliament (Grayling, Feb, 2012) and flagrantly doing something different on the ground wasn't going to work very well.

 

Since then, at least so far as I can surf, I note NO cases, of people who have stood their ground and insisted, being refused the'service'.

 

It is disgraceful – enormously stressful - that people should have to fight for the right, but this thread testifies that holding out for it prevails, even if there remain claimants here whose reports of finally getting a recorded WCA I await with considerable interest,

 

Until the contrary is proven, I say insist on having your WCA recorded; but I say that t with a wretched, grossly inequitable, proviso i.e. that you can afford the delay in being assessed. If not, record covertly.

 

As regards the new PIP assessments, the situation, it seems to me, is (yet) more grave and, at best, hangs in the balance just now. Despite Capita having said in its bid documentation that it would be prepared to offer a recording service, the DWP is not permitting this for either Atos or Capita.

 

At the same time, all the indications are that any attempt to record PIP assessments OVERTLY by a claimant will be met by the objection that their equipment does met the 'required standards', which are totally unaffordable by the vast majority of us (£1400 - £1900).

 

If the DWP doesn't back down, right now, the ONLY realistic option for claimants of PIP will be to record COVERTLY. PIP starts 02 04 13, and I don't believe in the Easter Bunny.

 

and of those 9 people I think it wasnt random either, I think they were picked out as test cases (me one of them) as when I was refused I was refused multiple times. Plus all the known cases were in the east midlands or norfolk area.

[reallymadwoman]

My recorded assessment has never been refused, it's just never happened. 13 months and still waiting.

[worried33]

My recorded assessment has never been refused, it's just never happened. 13 months and still waiting.

 

which is ridicolous, I bet I get another WCA before you get yours.

[reallymadwoman]

which is ridicolous, I bet I get another WCA before you get yours.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I've been waiting 2 months to see if DWP will accept 'good cause' or if I'll have to appeal. If it's appeal, then it could easily be another 12 months before we even start all over again and in the meantime all my medical evidence that I paid for is out of date. It's only on good days that I think it's worth the effort.

[nolegion]

What wretched, bullying behaviour from the DWP, rmw. My sympathies.

 

May I ask, have they now stopped your ESA during the delay?

[reallymadwoman]

What wretched, bullying behaviour from the DWP, rmw. My sympathies.

 

May I ask, have they now stopped your ESA during the delay?

 

I'm still being paid my IB - for now at least. If it does come to an appeal I won't be paid anything because I am not wasting mine or my GPs time to send in 'fit notes' for months on end. The stupid thing is that ATOS accept I have limited capability for work, they only wanted to assess if I met any of the support group descriptors.

[SWLABR9]

I insisted on recording, they agreed. They agreed several tmes in fact as they kept booking appointments which, when I checked with them, weren't going to be recorded. In the end I had a recorded one and sailed into the support group. It might have been luck of the draw or it might have helped. I will mention too that I looked up lots of relevant info about my two main conditions on the web and copied sections of what I found, together with the urls, into the notes I gave the assessor on the day. They don't know squat, these people. They aren't specialists so you have to tell them what your problems are and how they affect you (and get evidence for it from the web) because if you don't, well, they don't know, do they?

[bigissue]

Just to update you I had my medical the other day at Atos as planned and had it audio recorded no problem at all, I had a slight wait as they set it all up but they were very nice about it. I was asked why I had asked for a recording and I told them it was due to missing information on my last report and my own difficulty in remembering and taking notes. They seemed ok with that and I was happy enough to sign the form as I only wanted the recording for personal reasons or in the event of missing information. I think my assessment was more in depth than usual and I was allocated an HCP who said they had experiance of my condition and that they were sympathetic to the limitations it placed on me. I left with the feeling my claim would be allowed but only time will tell. I may request my ESA85 but as usual I worry that will go against me somehow. Anyway all I can say is I had very good experiance with ATOS today which means I have had two out of three being good and one awful. As I said before though only time will tell. I do recommend asking for a recording as it can only help your case.

[**Margaret**]

::

 

Really pleased for both of you.

 

And your experiences may help to scotch some of the rumours currently flying around the internet that 'Atos aren't allowing audio recorded assessments'.

 

Whilst it remains to be seen what happens with assessments for personal independence payments I don't see any evidence of a U turn over work capability assessments. Apart anything else, unless anyone's heard different, DWATO still have an outstanding judicial review to defend. (Patrick Lynch v Work n Pensions?)

 

Margaret.

[bigissue]

Thank you Margaret and can I take this oppertunity to thank you for all you advice over the past few weeks regarding my assessment and getting it recorded, your help was invaluable.

 

I hope everyone else seeking a recoded assessment in future finds it straight forward and helpful!

[Zarbafi]

I wonder is there any numbers either offical or unoffical on how successful those who have their medical recorded? It would be very interesting to know what percentage or offically recorded medicals are awarded ESA versus those not recorded. I have heard that those who made secret recordings then fail and at some point during reconsideration or appeal let on that they have a recording tend to find a reconsideration in their favour so it would be nice to know if offical recordings also lead to a more favorable outcome?

[nolegion]

A revised version of the "WCA Handbook" for Atos "hcps" was made available at the DWP website today,. We now have the March 2013 edition and there are changes to the part which refers to the audio recording of assessments. The result is contemptible on many grounds, in my view, but above all because it blatantly and pathetically side-steps the real issue:-.

 

"4.1.3 Audio taping of examinations

 

Audio Recording

 

The DWP never requires that a medical assessment for advising on entitlement to state sickness or disability benefits be recorded.

 

A claimant may request that their assessment isaudio recorded and dual CD recording machines are available to provide audiorecordings where capacity allows. For requests made by claimants for theirassessment to be audio recorded, the resource team at the MSC will beresponsible for arranging for the audio recording equipment to be sent to theappropriate MEC for the assessment. A claimant may also make a request torecord the assessment using their own equipment and this should be agreed in advance of their appointment date. Further information can be obtained fromyour local MSC or Atos Healthcare website."

 

Unauthorised recording

 

The DWP reserves the right to take appropriate action where a recording is used for unlawful purposes for example if it is altered, and publicised for malicious reasons."

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-handbook.pdf

 

So, for starters:-

 

"where capacity allows" – are Atos permitted torefuse to provide a recording because none of their employees at any givenmedical examination centre want to bee recorded ? And who is responsible for ensuring that there is adequate'capacity' in terms of the availability of equipment?

 

"using their own equipment" – what restrictionsare there as regards the type of equipment used? Note that this section says nothing about the need to provide a copy to anybody at the end of an assessment. I suggest the reason for that omission (although it is DWATO policy to insist on it) is that if they spelled out this restriction here, they would need to spell out the other principal restriction as well i.e that they require dual-deck simultaneous recording equipment which is wholly unaffordable by the vast majority ofclaimants, meaning that their insistence on this specification contravenes the legal advice the DWP has itself received in this specific regard

 

" this should be agreed in advance of their appointmentdate" - How?

 

Altogether a highly unpleasant, inadequte and would-be-deceitful effort.

 

On the plus side is that it so pathetic I do not believe forone moment it would stand up as remotely reasonable in court. It totally fails to communicate the actual DWP policy in this matter to either to Atos orclaimants; and when the real extent of that policy is finally exposed and challenged though further litigation, it will, in any event, inevitably be found to be illegal, in my opinion.

 

(And ain't it just so quaint that the policy still refers to 'taping'.)

Edited April 3, 2013 by nolegion

[Crazy Diamond]

Here are some news about the PIP assessments-to-be...

 

http://www.disabilitywales.org/1168/4430

 

So, they won't let Capita offer to record, but they admit (rather grudgingly, if I am any judge!) that WE can.

[Guest]

And I would too.......thankyou guys, you make life a little better in helping me for one, get to grips with all this. Having some way to fight gives me the strength to do just that.

[Invalidation]

But this is the good, important part

 

 

The DWP reserves the right to take appropriate action where a recording is used for unlawful purposes for example if it is altered, and publicised for malicious reasons."

 

Simply posting it on Youtube isnt unlawful or malicious unless you posted some malicious comments

[Nystagmite]

How do they prove it's for malicious reasons?

[Guest]

Well I guess it would depend on the comments that went with it....although to be fair if it proves them as liars you really wouldn't have to say much at all. It surely cant be classed as malicious if its stating a truth? the assessor lied on the report, heres the assessment that proves what really happened as recorded etc.......am sure investigative journalists don't get accused of being malicious if they are reporting facts? I would class this as the same. But that's just my simple logic.

[Crazy Diamond]

How do they prove it's for malicious reasons?

 

They couldn't until it was done. Certainly, suspicion that you may decide to misuse it ("misuse" still having to be defined) wouldn't be a sufficient reason to say no. I mean, it's like saying that because I bought a chainsaw, I am going to turn into a serial killer!

[Guest]